The Trouble with Sri Raji

[Jeremy16]

I'm creating a new NPC with roots in Sri Raji, and it got me wondering if it was time to finally do a full write-up of this domain. I know the idea of doing a Verduous Lands Gazetteer has been kicked around the site for years, but with all the Islands of Terror getting so much love in recent QTRs, I can't help but notice this rather large, glaring omission.

However, I see two main problems that would have to be addressed in order to do things right:

1) The Caste System – In Web of Illusion there is a quick mention that much like India there is a caste system in place here. I know we have gotten away from such ugly distinctions these days, but I think it would be a great source of tension and storytelling possibilities and is worth keeping intact in one form or another. But, how to do that and be culturally sensitive as well?

2) The Hindu Pantheon – To most Westerners (myself included) the Hindu pantheon seems like a chaotic amalgamation of deities that don't quite fit together all that well. There is Krisha, Vishnu, and Siva, with dozens of different powers, avatars, and offshoots (much like the MCU and its multiverse these days). While this is natural in a such a long-lived civilization, it often poses a problem for most Westerners who are used to thinking of gods and goddessese operating in a small group with distinct attributes (such as from Greek and Norse mythology). I believe these differences should be kept, however, because it gives the domain a very unique flavor. I would prefer a more pared down version of the real-life Hindu pantheon, however, in order to fit it within the usual D&D aesthetics (such as temples dedicated to singular gods and even various paladins arising from them).

Anyone more familiar with the material have any resources they would like to share? Am I barking up the wrong tree as to the themes that should be highlighted for this domain?

[IanFordam]

To be honest, those two factors are what have prevented me from doing much more than editing the Mistipedia entries related to the various deities of the Sri Raji pantheon. That and the fact that my closest friend of Indian descent isn't at all a gamer, which leaves me without a sensitivity checker for a faith and culture which is still very much vital in the world.

Even so, here are my two cents:

Regarding the caste system, my inclination would be to keep it but make clear that good and evil arise in all castes. I would also disclaim in a sidebar that the DM can lessen the rigidity of the system or ignore it entirely if preferred. In addition, I would talk about people who are mleccha, that is, those barbarians who are outside of the entire system of dharma. In other words, adventurers don't have to adhere to the caste system. (They aren't civilized enough to know better.)

Regarding the Sri Rajian pantheon, I would emphasize the Vedic deities over those deities who rose to prominence in the Epic and later eras. That pares down the complexity of the pantheon, as you requested, and (I think) helps to avoid being offensive to those who practice the Hindu faith. One might even take the step of creating explicitly fictitious counterparts to the Vedic deities as the game Against the Dark Yogi has done. Regardless, I would certainly disclaim that the Sri Rajian faith is to be taken as fictitious.

For background reading, I recommend Hindu Gods and Goddesses by W.J. Wilkins, which has been my go-to book whenever I venture in this direction. I also feel I should point out The Origins of Evil in Hindu Mythology by Wendy Doniger O'Flaherty. That latter book is a slog, but it convinced me that we shouldn't judge good and evil in Sri Raji the same way the we would in the Core. Is a rakshasa committing evil when it acts according to the dharma of a rakshasa?

[tomokaicho]

Regarding the Sri Rajian pantheon, I would emphasize the Vedic deities over those deities who rose to prominence in the Epic and later eras. That pares down the complexity of the pantheon, as you requested, and (I think) helps to avoid being offensive to those who practice the Hindu faith. One might even take the step of creating explicitly fictitious counterparts to the Vedic deities as the game Against the Dark Yogi has done. Regardless, I would certainly disclaim that the Sri Rajian faith is to be taken as fictitious.

One could make a Sri Raji version of the Lawmaker. In this case, caste is enforced on the population whether they like it or not. One could also emphasise conflict, that not everyone is content with their caste status, such as Sri Rajian adventurers.

[Solan]

I find Sri Raji to be a very interesting land, with much potential. I'm glad to hear you're thinking it deserves an in-depth look.

1. Forget cultural sensitivity. Sri Raji isn't a real place, and none of its inhabitants exist to be offended.

2. The Darklord and his Dark Sisters of Kali control the domain. Is worship of any deity other than Kali even allowed?

[IanFordam]

1. Forget cultural sensitivity. Sri Raji isn't a real place, and none of its inhabitants exist to be offended.

Speaking for myself and not for Jeremy16 or anyone else: I don't worry about offending the people of Sri Raji. They're stuck in Ravenloft. Instead, I try to be culturally sensitive because I don't want to be disrespectful to my friends and coworkers of Indian descent or who adhere to the Hindu faith.

2. The Darklord and his Dark Sisters of Kali control the domain. Is worship of any deity other than Kali even allowed?

According to Web of Illusion, Rudri has a temple on the waterfront of Muladi, and Ratri has a temple in Pakat, beneath which exists a secret temple dedicated to Siva. Moreover, Tvashtri is the primary deity worshipped in Tvashti.

In addition, Brahman, Indra, Kali, Puchan, Rudri, Savitri, Siva, Varuna, Vayu, and Yama all have rooms in Arijani's temple, implying that those deities are (or at least have been) worshipped in Sri Raji.

[Solan]

Excellent information on deities allowed in the domain! I can't see why anyone of Indian descent or Hindu faith should be offended by anyone or anything that happens in a fictional domain. If so, I'd suggest they're being massively oversensitive.

[High Priest Mikhal]

The best, and really only, way to present the caste system is to just present it as it existed and still largely exists IRL. Some people may not like the realities but that's on them alone. It's been a key part of Indian culture for millennia and is also a part of Hinduism itself. To ignore it and its impact Rajian society and mysticism would be culturally insensitive itself.

[Jeremy16]

According to Web of Illusion, Rudri has a temple on the waterfront of Muladi, and Ratri has a temple in Pakat, beneath which exists a secret temple dedicated to Siva. Moreover, Tvashtri is the primary deity worshipped in Tvashti.

In addition, Brahman, Indra, Kali, Puchan, Rudri, Savitri, Siva, Varuna, Vayu, and Yama all have rooms in Arijani's temple, implying that those deities are (or at least have been) worshipped in Sri Raji.

Given canon mention of all of this dieties it would be a shame to have them go to waste if the domain is ever updated. In fact, it coincide well with an idea I had of introducing religious "centers of power" to dot the domain.

In Pakat, Ratri is priests' hold sway.
In Bahru, Kali's priestess' hold sway
In Muladi, Rudri's priests' hold sway.
In Tvashti, Tvashtri's priests' hold sway (duh).

I would just like to expand this idea further. In my head canon, I have already created a lost temple dedicated to Ganesha that is hidden in the jungle waiting for the right person to come along and become that god's avatar (Loxodons in Ravenloft, anyone?). Plus, there's the Shrine of the Serpents with its worship of Manasa that I added in my previous QTR article.

This could be one way to fill this domain up with more wondrous sites and religious mysticism instead of the dull jungle backwater that it was portrayed as in 2nd edition!

[Jeremy16]

The best, and really only, way to present the caste system is to just present it as it existed and still largely exists IRL. Some people may not like the realities but that's on them alone. It's been a key part of Indian culture for millennia and is also a part of Hinduism itself. To ignore it and its impact Rajian society and mysticism would be culturally insensitive itself.

I agree with you Mikhal, sweeping something under the rug just because it make people uncomfortable to talk about is no way to address the underlying issues. Better to bring this stuff into the light in order to truly move past it.

My follow-up question, to you (and anyone else who feels the same way), is how should this be portrayed in-game? Should each caste get its own special start-up kit of supplies, money, and perhaps a unique feat? Or should it be as simple as each caste gets one bane (a penalty) and one boon (a bonus)? Or something else entirely?

Basically, what would the native player character write-up look like for this domain?

[IanFordam]

I agree with you Mikhal, sweeping something under the rug just because it make people uncomfortable to talk about is no way to address the underlying issues. Better to bring this stuff into the light in order to truly move past it.

To be clear, my own take on Sri Raji definitely includes the caste system—in part, as you say, to address the underlying issues. My aforementioned disclaimers are merely intended to recognize that not every gaming group feels the same way.

Given canon mention of all of this dieties it would be a shame to have them go to waste if the domain is ever updated. In fact, it coincide well with an idea I had of introducing religious "centers of power" to dot the domain.

In Pakat, Ratri is priests' hold sway.
In Bahru, Kali's priestess' hold sway
In Muladi, Rudri's priests' hold sway.
In Tvashti, Tvashtri's priests' hold sway (duh).

I agree that Kali and Rudri's priests are the dominant political forces in Bahru and Muladi. For that matter, I agree that Tvashtri's priests run Tvashti, except that I would model them in a more mechanical, potentially-more-magical, less-clerical fashion. (I'm vaguely reminded of the technologists in Rock's Conquista article from QtR30.)

The situation in Pakat is potentially more complex. Web of Illusion asserts that the temple dedicated to Ratri has been usurped by worshippers of Siva. It's run-down and seemingly in political decline.

However, there's a lot of time between 738BC (which is more or less when Web of Illusion occurs) and the modern day. While Pakat may have remained in relative statis, it seems to me to be ripe for some sort of dramatic change.

(The bit I like least about Web of Illusion's treatment of Pakat is its implicit interpretation of Siva as an evil deity.)

I would just like to expand this idea further. In my head canon, I have already created a lost temple dedicated to Ganesha that is hidden in the jungle waiting for the right person to come along and become that god's avatar (Loxodons in Ravenloft, anyone?). Plus, there's the Shrine of the Serpents with its worship of Manasa that I added in my previous QTR article.

As much as the introduction of Ganesha (a Puranic deity without clear Vedic antecedents) confounds my vision of the Sri Rajian pantheon, okay, yeah, that's a cool idea.

Also, thanks for drawing attention to Manasa! I hadn't paid much attention to her before.

[Jeremy16]

I find Sri Raji to be a very interesting land, with much potential. I'm glad to hear you're thinking it deserves an in-depth look.

1. Forget cultural sensitivity. Sri Raji isn't a real place, and none of its inhabitants exist to be offended.

2. The Darklord and his Dark Sisters of Kali control the domain. Is worship of any deity other than Kali even allowed?

Sure, Arijani is a Kali worshipper, and obviously seeks to spread her influence over the entire domain, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't be allowed to worship other gods (there are already too many authoritarian religious theocracies in Ravenloft as is) or preclude those other gods' priests from vying for second place amongst the people's heart.

[alhoon]

To be honest, those two factors are what have prevented me from doing much more than editing the Mistipedia entries related to the various deities of the Sri Raji pantheon. That and the fact that my closest friend of Indian descent isn't at all a gamer, which leaves me without a sensitivity checker for a faith and culture which is still very much vital in the world.

A main issue we need to be aware of is that India doesn't have one culture. Even Hinduism, as Jeremy16 says is practiced differently in different regions. HOWEVER all of these do not have to come into play for a small area with a canon population of 27,000 people. Even if you balloon it to be like a small kinda-sovereign Indian kingdom in the Middle ages, you would still have just 100,000 people. Even if we go with a sparse population density, a state of 100,000 people won't have different religions or cultures aside of perhaps a small group with their own practices and religion just to make things interesting (like 4000-5000 people of the minority culture/religion).

My point is that an area of 2000-4000 sq.miles with 100,000-120,000 people won't have to accommodate the diversity in everything you would see in India. It is effectively one state near the jungles (for example, like the Chanda), not the Delhi Sultanate or Mughal Empire.

I know we have gotten away from such ugly distinctions these days

Have we? Or we simply don't call them castes?
Be cruel or rude to a homeless person with addiction problems and then try the same behavior towards a judge, governor or priest, compare the response and then see how far we have progressed.

In my opinion, a horror game would benefit from such comparisons, like a group of judgmental "we are better!" people that treat their servants and employees like dirt while pretending to be morally superior for not having castes.

[Jeremy16]

Bonus Issues:

1) The Moon (Or Lack Thereof) – Can we just ignore this? I see no in-story or practical reason why this domain should have no moon. I think this aspect was first mentioned in Web of Illusion, but the only other product I'm aware of that references it is Carnival (in the background section for the Hideous Man-Beast).

Why is this even a thing? Was it an attempt to distinguish weretigers from werewolves? Was it used to make the jungle darker and more dangerous? I just don't get it. What purpose does it serve besides making connections to other lands that much more complicated?

My suggestion would be to say the domain as originally formed had no moon (this would account for its lack in Web of Illusion) but once it joined up with and created a cluster with Saragoss and the Wildlands the moon suddenly appeared in the sky. Alternately, the Grand Conjunction could be blamed.

2) Lord Arijani's Anti-Social Habits – In Web of Illusion this Darklord is saddled with two distinguishing features – he fears all outsiders and orders them to be seized and killed immediately, and he must eat one person a day to feed his demonic hunger.

The one-person-a-day thing is handled pretty well and survived into 3e, but his xenophobia poses a more difficult problem. Such as, how have so many explorers come and gone and survived to tell the tale? Killing all outsiders kinda makes it hard for anyone to visit and experience all this land has to offer.

I believe this stance should be softened, and the authors of the RLDMG seem to agree, as it was not mentioned in the domain write-up (correct me if I'm wrong). It would be pretty easy to suggest that Arijan's attention has been drawn elsewhere to explain why this is no longer such an obsession with him.

[Jeremy16]

A main issue we need to be aware of is that India doesn't have one culture. Even Hinduism, as Jeremy16 says is practiced differently in different regions. HOWEVER all of these do not have to come into play for a small area with a canon population of 27,000 people. Even if you balloon it to be like a small kinda-sovereign Indian kingdom in the Middle ages, you would still have just 100,000 people. Even if we go with a sparse population density, a state of 100,000 people won't have different religions or cultures aside of perhaps a small group with their own practices and religion just to make things interesting (like 4000-5000 people of the minority culture/religion).

My point is that an area of 2000-4000 sq.miles with 100,000-120,000 people won't have to accommodate the diversity in everything you would see in India. It is effectively one state near the jungles (for example, like the Chanda), not the Delhi Sultanate or Mughal Empire.

While I agree with you on a technical level, I don't think this view is useful in a meta-game sense.

Sri Raji is ostenably the only Indian/Hindu domain PCs will ever visit within the Demiplane, and as such it should be filled with as many exotic wonders as can be packed in. That was my main disappointment the adventure in Web of Illusion - more attention was given to detailing Arijani's Temple than highlighting the domain's unique culture.

This is my main impetus in updating the domain with a gazetteeer-like treatment. Individual DMs are more than able to pick and choose what to keep and what to throw away.

[alhoon]

While I agree with you on a technical level, I don't think this view is useful in a meta-game sense.

Sri Raji is ostenably the only Indian/Hindu domain PCs will ever visit within the Demiplane, and as such it should be filled with as many exotic wonders as can be packed in.

That is impossible though, Jeremy. And furthermore, I disagree with the view that since it is the only Hindu domain, it should be jampacked to the brim with exotic wonders. Ravenloft is about gothic horror, in my opinion. An exotic twist is useful and entertaining, but it is not a tourist or anthropologist game. A few things that are useful for the adventure and to show how things are there is (again in my opinion) more than enough.