Undead Senses and Emotions

[Five]

Not all undead are monsters, thought.

How do you mean?

[Mistmaster]

That a Vampire needs not to be a Dracula. He could be an Hannibal King, for exanple.

[Five]

A Dungeon Master is free to create however they see fit, of course. I like to play with the idea of a "good" vampire from time to time (Forever Knight), but at the table I dunno. It's just not in my toolbox. Well, it may there, buried beneath everything else. Just never used it yet I spose. Others' expectations and whatnot.

I personally don't romanticise the undead. A vampire is a monster, and it (transitive vampirism) will eventually overpower its host's will, no matter intentions or willpower (ask a human to not be human and see how far they go). The best that person can hope for is quick destruction (Final Rest) before they lose themselves to the Eternal Hunger.

I have played Devil's Advocate in the past in discussions about the matter, but meh. I like the ideas behind "past the point of no return", "doomed (and knowing it)", "one last stand", that sort of thing.

Vampirism as an infection (a horrible and truly scary concept, that somehow always seems to get lost in the fluff IMO), is second only to lycanthropy in my big book of biohazardous ideas. Sometimes first, as it is the more capable of the two in terms of being hidden in the nooks and crannies of society. But, you're right. That's just me.

[Mistmaster]

As the author of this, I can't agree with your hopinion:http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/foru ... =1&t=10067 On the matter, Vampirism is not exactly a desease, because you need a complicated procedure to create a Vampire. Beside, Vampires can actually feed without killing anyone; even vegetarians kill living creatures; ematophagus do not need to kill when they feed; that little bit is often lost in the fluff too.

[Five]

As the author of this, I can't agree with your hopinion:http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/foru ... =1&t=10067

Although I don't fully subscribe to it (I'm a month-to-month kinda guy heh), I can respect a creator's want or need for universal truths/continuity.

Vampirism is not exactly a desease, because you need a complicated procedure to create a Vampire.

The origin of the species, yes. As a biochemical by-product, and depending on one's definition of vampire, not necessarily.

Beside, Vampires can actually feed without killing anyone; even vegetarians kill living creatures; ematophagus do not need to kill when they feed; that little bit is often lost in the fluff too.

Good points. Though I think we are starting to stray from the purpose of this thread.

What are your thoughts on Undead senses and emotions? Are your vampires, for instance, capable of running the gamut of emotions? Are they limited to only the negative (emotional umbilical cord to its new "Yggdrasill")? Are they emotionless (ie: purely intellectual) predators? Or, are they something else (perhaps individualised)? Either way, why is that?

[Mistmaster]

Good questions; I think my vampires have all the emotions they had as living being; they feel expecially emotive after they have fed; however, they tend to be influenced by theyr immortality in the way they think; this is true for every undead, they feel emotive pain, if they are corporeal, but they can't feel phisical pain, with the exception of positive energy, holy water and other things they are vulnerable too. Undead with feeding needs have a sense of taste, while those with phisical eye's can see and distinguish color. Undead with the scent ability can distinguish scents and smells.

[High Priest Mikhal]

What are your thoughts on Undead senses and emotions? Are your vampires, for instance, capable of running the gamut of emotions? Are they limited to only the negative (emotional umbilical cord to its new "Yggdrasill")? Are they emotionless (ie: purely intellectual) predators? Or, are they something else (perhaps individualised)? Either way, why is that?

That reminds me of some head canon I've been compiling on the nature of positive and negative energies. Namely, why the undead are usually always evil. I chalk it up to the fact that negative energy is entropy itself, decaying even the soul until only negativity is left. Hate, anger, sadness, frustration, envy, etc. It's not inevitable and can be resisted with effort, but most undead don't try or become overwhelmed and give up. It also partially explains why Tomb-Tainted Souls (as per the feat in Libris Mortis) can't be of good alignment in the canon rules but it's still a stumbling point I haven't worked out a metaphysical explanation for.

[Five]

That reminds me of some head canon I've been compiling on the nature of positive and negative energies. Namely, why the undead are usually always evil. I chalk it up to the fact that negative energy is entropy itself, decaying even the soul until only negativity is left. Hate, anger, sadness, frustration, envy, etc. It's not inevitable and can be resisted with effort, but most undead don't try or become overwhelmed and give up. It also partially explains why Tomb-Tainted Souls (as per the feat in Libris Mortis) can't be of good alignment in the canon rules but it's still a stumbling point I haven't worked out a metaphysical explanation for.

I do like the idea of perpetual decay (sum of all parts), and it fits into thematic Ravenloft as I usually default it...what else you got on that angle? Anything you care to share?

And, how negative can one become? What's it like at the bottom of that ravine? Quasi-dimensional inversion (maybe re-threaded to live a positive energy outcome ie: holy ascension)? Godhood/god dreamstuff? Elemental metamorphosis? Nothing; cosmic irony/"justice"/balance?

[Five]

I think my vampires have all the emotions they had as living being; they feel expecially emotive after they have fed

So, do your vampires absorb the emotions of their victims, or is after the feed when they actually stir up, or, are able to sorta hyper-connect to personal emotions? Is that their cigarette after supper?

Serious questions, but couldn't resist the melted cheese...haha

[Mistmaster]

After they fed they connect more keenly.

[Five]

After they fed they connect more keenly.

Why is this? As in, what's your reasoning?

Is this part of their "Eternal Hunger" (call it what you will)? Is it simply a by-product of it or do they double-down on sustenance (physical and emotional)? Is this a sort of vampiric addiction (the eternal to their hunger, etc)?

Either way I can see a sorta duality with it. Beneficial to some (those who focus on the Present), relentless torture to others (those who are running from the Past), with others in between...

[Mistmaster]

Feeding is the moment they feel more alive (they need to be well fed to generate a Dampyr, for example) because, that is the moment they are most alive, as the needing to feed is the one thing they shares with living being; that is why the feel morekeening after feeding, because every time a Vampires feed, they renew theyr own vitality.

[Five]

Feeding is the moment they feel more alive (they need to be well fed to generate a Dampyr, for example) because, that is the moment they are most alive, as the needing to feed is the one thing they shares with living being; that is why the feel morekeening after feeding, because every time a Vampires feed, they renew theyr own vitality.

Ok, so, immortality (barring specific conditions), supernatural strength (I assume), enhanced emotions (after feeding), enhanced senses, impervious to all but "mistletoe",...what's the downside to being a vampire (or any Undead)? Why doesn't everybody chose to walk the path of the Nightwalker? What is the underlying fear that keeps the majority of people on the "straight and narrow"? A large amount of people IRL go to extremes to achieve far less than these qualities (body surgery, steroids, recreational drugs, etc)...

I'm speaking generally now. Mistmaster's quote was just a trigger.

And, for the record, I'm just trying to pick a spot to place the scalpel. haha While trying to stay on topic of course

[Mistmaster]

The downside of Vampirism is the downside of immortality, you are barred from whatever afterlife you believe in. Being a Vampire means also that you need to feed regularly, less you become dangerous. It's a dependence. Finally, you are barred from sunlight forever. For humans and other mortals that is traumatic. Sterility may be another downside, albeit not an unsurmountable one.

[High Priest Mikhal]

That reminds me of some head canon I've been compiling on the nature of positive and negative energies. Namely, why the undead are usually always evil. I chalk it up to the fact that negative energy is entropy itself, decaying even the soul until only negativity is left. Hate, anger, sadness, frustration, envy, etc. It's not inevitable and can be resisted with effort, but most undead don't try or become overwhelmed and give up. It also partially explains why Tomb-Tainted Souls (as per the feat in Libris Mortis) can't be of good alignment in the canon rules but it's still a stumbling point I haven't worked out a metaphysical explanation for.

I do like the idea of perpetual decay (sum of all parts), and it fits into thematic Ravenloft as I usually default it...what else you got on that angle? Anything you care to share?

And, how negative can one become? What's it like at the bottom of that ravine? Quasi-dimensional inversion (maybe re-threaded to live a positive energy outcome ie: holy ascension)? Godhood/god dreamstuff? Elemental metamorphosis? Nothing; cosmic irony/"justice"/balance?

I'll try and share some of what I've come up with.

Negative energy is a constant drain rather than overwhelming force. The more closely linked a creature is to it (i.e., older vampires, powerful liches, high-rank ghosts and mummies) or the weaker their mind (low or non-existent Intellect) the more likely it is that their minds and souls have been sapped of any sort of positive emotions and they've become evil. I drew a lot from the psychology of illithids as described in Lords of Madness and fiends from both Fiendish Codices for 3.5, which states that mind flayers filter only feel negative or corrupted emotions and fiends' outlooks are tainted by their inherent evil, casting everything in a subtly hateful or tainted light. The closest either comes to joy is in sadism, domination, and destruction. The same could be said of the undead who's emotions are decayed by their ties to the Negative Energy Plane. Eventually negativity overwhelms even the strongest minds with apathy and despair.

Eventually a creature so affected either seeks true death or comes up with some way of distracting itself. Liches are the most likely to seek the latter, becoming demiliches so they can seek out knowledge beyond even their limits. Vampires, the most likely undead to have already sought out distractions over their centuries of unlife, are most likely to eventually desire true death. Not willingly or even consciously, but deep in their minds. That's the deepest part of the pit, emotionally.

I don't feel like there's any grand end. As contraventions of the natural order, the undead are barred from even a restful afterlife unless they succumb to true death. Even the mightiest demiliches or atropals are denied such. In the end all they have to look forward to is more misery and pain until their destroyed.