Troile wrote:3 lightning bolts are going to be stronger than 7 magic missiles.
Let's look at game mechanics here a moment.
21d4+21 vs. 15d6. The MM's have a maximum damage of 105 and a minimum or 42. The Lightning Bolts have a maximum damage of 90, a minimum of 15. I'm afraid the MM's win out there basing the spells ona 5th level caster. Remeber, a 5th level caster unleashes 3 MM's for each casting of the spell, each missile inflicting 1d4+1 damage. At 5th level the MM's have a longer range and can strike targets that are not in a straight line and are distributed however you want. However on the side of the Lightning Bolt, it strikes everything in that straight line, so unless you have more than 1 target in that straight line, the MM's are likely to inflict more harm, they also strike automatically.
The true bonus for the Lightning Bolt in this situation is that it can inlict harm on inanimate objects such as doors, metals, etc.
However, my personal preference is the MM's.
Plus the wizard has all of his other spells...
True, the wizard has access to more spells, but these must be prepared, the sorcerer has access to all of his spells all of the time and does not need to prepare them. I think the two classes come out even here. While the wizard has many more spells to choose between when memorizing them, the sorcerer is free to pick his spells as they are needed without advanced planning.
and he would have a lot more spells than that as well...
If his intelligence score is high enough then he can memorise more spells, but so can a socerer wit ha higher charisma score. He will also have access to more spells in his spellbook to choose between, but must select all his spells in advance, going back to what I said above.
No I'm not going to convince you...b/c you don't like to read my posts...whether you agree with me or not, the sorcerer is weak.
Keep it civil.
Is he so weak that he is unplayable? not by any standard.
I don't see the sorcerer as weak in any respect other than requiring more skill ranks and possibly a few extra class skills. Yes it does need Diplomacy, bu you can add this to your own games without needing a new edition of the book that contains this ammendment, lol.
There is a lot more too than just defeating enemies...fighters can run in and chop down enemies...sometimes a well placed magic missile or lightning bolt is the answer but that isn't where a wizard shines.
True, a true wziard shines in the absolutely (almost) unrivalled collection of knowledge skills and his ability to create magic items. Then again, I don't see a problem with a sorcerer taking Item Creation Feats since the only prerequisitie is a caster level and not a class restriction to wizard
As for a number of spells a 5th level wizard or sorcerer can cast, I'll base these following lists on a wizard with Int 14 and a sorcerer with Cha 14, just to make it easy.
Wizard: 0 level - 4; 1st level - 4; 2nd level - 3; 3rd level - 1.
Sorcerer: 0 level - 6; 1st level - 7; 2nd level - 5.
While the wizard has access to 3rd level spells, the sorcerer does have the ability to cast many more 0, 1st and 2nd level spells.
Now let's take them to 6th level wit hthe same ability scores.
Wizard: 0 level - 4; 1st level - 4; 2nd level - 4; 3rd level - 2.
Sorcerer: 0 level - 6; 1st level - 7; 2nd level - 6; 3rd level - 3.
The sorcerer now has the ability to cast 3rd level spells and 1 more of the ma day than the wizard. Certainly in the next ;eve l the wuizard will gain 4th level spells, but the sorcerer will have access to 7 MM's, 6 Invisibilities or Mirror Image (a spell I take often) and 4 Fireballs or Lightning Bolts. Basing those characters on thsoe who are taken into combat frequentlyand lioke to deal damage.
Personally thopugh, taking either that wizard or sorcerer, the initial spells I would give them are somethuing like what follows: (basing them on 7th level characters)
0 level - Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead, Ghost Sound, Light, Message, Read Magic, Resistance.
1 level - Charm Person, Grease, Magic Missile, Shocking Grasp, True Strike.
2 level - Blindness/Deafness, Glitterdust, Mirror Image.
3 level - Haste, Keen Edge.
I know the wizard would have more spells at this point, but I am only listing those I would choose initially.
With those spells, a sorcerer would be able to blast more opponents with MM's and use a few castings of True Strike to aid his Shocking Grasp. He would also be able to cast Grease so many times that any foes wanting to close on him would have difficulty doing so. He could charm a fair number of people and perhaps blind and/or deafen so many opponents that his allies will have a much easier time dealing with things. From thsoe spells, I would say things favour the sorcerer, as he could also double the threat range of the weapons 4 of his allies are weilding, creating a greater possibility for critical hits.
There are a few spells there that would favour the wizard as they only require a single casting, Glitterdust and Mirror Image for instance, but I would lean on the fact that the spells that I would tend to choose - keeping in mind that I would normally select these spells for wizards - do benefit a sorcerer better.
