[2e&5e] Angels that are not acting IMO angelic

[Pauper]

Very true -- another thing I like about the setting is that good people can end up doing 'bad' things, either through ignorance, laziness, or simple malice. It's how characters respond to those actions that illuminates their moral character (and not coincidentally, determines how many Powers Checks they have to make).

The classic example is the Tepestani inquisitor who takes shortcuts to ensure the burning of someone he 'knows' is a witch, then discovers he was wrong. Does this realization shock him into a renewed sense of his own responsibility (as I think is intended for the NPC Wyan), or does he shrug off the error as something he was tricked into by the 'true evil', thus taking his first steps down the path that will end in an act of Ultimate Darkness?

You can do those stories in other settings, and sometimes they even work well (Soth's arc in Dragonlance, for instance), but Ravenloft, to me, is the setting where these stories fit best (which is why I never had a problem with Soth in Ravenloft -- it's the obvious endgame for his story).

--
Pauper

[The Lesser Evil]

I think a counter to Isolde's having a "kill evil" philosophy would be the Abominations (whom she insists not be killed). Certainly that seems to indicate she has some alien or unknowable purpose for them.

[alhoon]

The classic example is the Tepestani inquisitor who takes shortcuts to ensure the burning of someone he 'knows' is a witch, then discovers he was wrong. Does this realization shock him into a renewed sense of his own responsibility (as I think is intended for the NPC Wyan), or does he shrug off the error as something he was tricked into by the 'true evil', thus taking his first steps down the path that will end in an act of Ultimate Darkness?

Or he will commit more crimes to hide the evidence of what he did to hide his lack of judgment from the peasants and the hierarchy?

You can do those stories in other settings, and sometimes they even work well (Soth's arc in Dragonlance, for instance), but Ravenloft, to me, is the setting where these stories fit best

Yeap, I agree. That's why I want angels that are always morally correct to show the difference between the free-will humans that can err (and be damned and redeemed) and the always-right morally programmed beings of the upper planes.

I think a counter to Isolde's having a "kill evil" philosophy would be the Abominations (whom she insists not be killed). Certainly that seems to indicate she has some alien or unknowable purpose for them.

I don't think it's so much purpose as much as "this is the right punishment" thing according to her.
PS. I don't use the abominations as made from "simply" murderers. I want 2-3 for shock value and to show what's the effects of going against such a pure creature but IMC they're the broken-minded remains of irredeemably evil people that did heinous acts near her presence (eating the heart of a new-born twisted baby, born in the carnival to extend one's unnatural life, in front of the heart-broken mother because the wanna-be lich was cruel sadist, being one case)

[The Lesser Evil]

Are we talking morally perfect from the standpoint/perspective of the deity they serve? Or objectively morally correct in general?

[alhoon]

Are we talking morally perfect from the standpoint/perspective of the deity they serve? Or objectively morally correct in general?

That's a very, very good question.
Well, "morally perfect" from the standpoint of their deity. But all good deities have some things in common and all chaotic good deities or lawful good deities have some other things in common.
If that's kinda confusing is because it is. I'm confused too.

Here's an example: Charity is good. Period.
Now, LG angel 1 would teach the poor how to earn a respectful living and help society. He wouldn't let a kid starve to death obviously. But his priority would be to teach people how to make a living.
CG angel 2 would decide whether the taxes were unfair, find evil rich people, rob them blind (leaving them enough so they won't starve) perhaps place a couple of "Educating" curses on them (no Old Testament staff, more lenient, like "you'll feel the hunger of those around you until you learn to respect them") and distribute the money to the poor, moving on.

If both Angel 1 and Angel 2 happen to be in the same place... they would not ever come to blows, knowing very well they both want to serve the people in different ways. But they would not work together (no debates either, they both know the other won't ever be convinced. Ever). They may try to underscore each other's influence though. I.e. Angel 1 may return money to the evil rich person because they were stolen, telling his followers that "these are stolen money, you haven't earned them" while Angel 2 may walk to people striving to learn how to fish and give a crate of fish and flour to them.

Does that help?
BTW Not all LG angels or CG angels would act that way, since not all LG aspects are the same, nor all CG aspects are the same.

[Resonant Curse]

So... stealing money from some random person who just happens to be evil is considered good?

And stealing from good aligned peasants and giving it back to the evil person is good?

I want to see your angel steal back some cursed relic that some vagabond adventurers have stolen and return it to the villain for his ritual because they haven't earned it.

[alhoon]

So... stealing money from some random person who just happens to be evil is considered good?

And stealing from good aligned peasants and giving it back to the evil person is good?

I want to see your angel steal back some cursed relic that some vagabond adventurers have stolen and return it to the villain for his ritual because they haven't earned it.

Meh... I didn't say that.
Stealing from evil rich people that gorge themselves while their neighbors and servants starve is "chaotic good". Asking the peasants to return the stolen money (not stealing it back) is "Lawful good"

Stealing a cursed relic by killing the villain is "earning it" as far as my angels are concerned. In the adventure we currently play that is the goal. A chaotic good angel recruited the party in disguise to guide them steal a relic needed in rituals that turn people to evil half-scorpion monsters loyal to the theocracy and willing to kill their families.
Thanks to this thread, I decided that in this campaign an angel would have no problem killing those turned-to-evil creatures to "liberate" them from their evil fate. Yet, while the angel kills those, the giant scorpions and the undead, he doesn't fight the warlocks and clerics of the temple.

[brilliantlight]

Don't forget the celestials acting as arms dealers for the Bloodwar so that the fiends kill each other faster. (per In the Cage: A Guide to Sigil).

Since fiends are by definition unredeemable that isn't really a problem. The more fiends destroy each other the better it is for the multiverse.

[alhoon]

It is shady though, and some of those weapons may be turned on mortals.