Darklords and Lords of Darkness + Baba Yaga

[Jack the Reaper]

Following the thread I opened yesterday about Yuan-Ti in RL and how to use the FR accessory "Serpent Realms", here is a suggestion for a greater project you might be interested to take part in:
There is this FR accessory "Lords of Darkness", which describes all kinds of evil societies. large and small, in the Realms. Now, which of those could be adapted to RL, and how?
(That's the only reason I bother with this FR stuff at all; FR is definitely one of my most disliked setting, what with all those munchkins walking around swollen with magic without a speck of real personality! )

For example: The Cult of the Dragon. Should RL have its own dragoliches, with sect of worshippers? Or the Kir-Lanan, those powerful gragoyles who wish to destroy all religions. Or those rascist elves, I forgot their name. Or a branch of the wizards-hating Karanok family,who worship spheres of annihilation. So much can be done with this stuff, its a shame to let it waste in Faerun!

And on another topic: In the module "The Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga" it mentions that Baba Yaga visited RL (and borrowed a living wal from there). Now that should be really interesting: How do you think Baba Yaga can be used in RL?
I'm a great fan of this old witch, not so much of her D&D version, but mostly of her Vampire:The Masquerade version, in which she is an ancient powerful nosferatu. Anyway I would like to hear ideas about using her in RL.

Yours truly,
Jack the Reaper

[NeoTiamat]

Well, I'm only loosely familiar with her D&D or WoD versions of Baba Yaga, but I'm familiar with the original folktales (it's a Russian thing).

The general idea is that Baba Yaga is a primeval and capricious force, something far more powerful than the hero of the story. I've read one article which claims that Baba Yaga is considered the incarnation of nature, the older, less cuddly version of Mother Nature which may have involved you starving to death in the winter or getting eaten by a wolf.

In most of the stories, Baba Yaga could serve alternatively as an ally, an enemy, or both. She was usually incredibly powerful, and was usually at least somewhat passive-aggressive towards the protagonist, if not outright threatening to eat him. At the same time, Baba Yaga had a strong sense of etiquette, if of the peasant variety, and a hero who was polite and intelligent could take advantage of that and end up running away with a horse as fast as the sun or a valued prophecy.

[Rock of the Fraternity]

Though my knowledge of the Russian folktale Baba Yaga is limited, I feel pretty safe in recommending Sarah Zettel's version to base the Baba's personality on. The Old Witch with the iron teeth, older than Death, who is the master of all that is lost.

[Pale]

Isn't Chickenbone sort of a pastiche of Baba Yaga? I mean, I know that there's a measure of appeal going to the source, but aren't there a few Darklords already who sort of fill in for her? The Three Hags and Chickenbone jump to mind, but there's another who I just can't place but remember as close kin.

Still, I like the idea of a powerful, capricious, hungry force out there - you can bargain with it, but it's always dangerous and usually playing your deal toward a bigger game.


I don't know a lot about some of the other pieces you mentioned from the Realms, but I do like the notion of gargoyles/golems seeking to destroy religion and the family/cult that worship unmaking, particular to those who might harness magic/creation.

In a world as ornate and, well, -gothic- as Ravenloft, having gargoyles from churches organized and hunting clergy and true believers like some demented murder of crows certainl sounds appealing. More and more start showing up in a town, roosting in the eaves of cathedrals, slowly depopulating the faithful? I'm not looking at the "canon" representation of a gargoyle, but rather something that might have come about through a corruption of the Powers. Hence - golems and gargoyles kind of dovetailing together.

I've never really been a fan of a cult devoted to the end of the world.... seems a bit too suicidal to sustain. Still, there are options to play with there. Departing from your canon material (since I haven't seen it), I'd play with the idea of a family or cult dedicated to eliminating or unmaking those who play in the forces of reality - wizards, evokers, transmuters, etc.

[HuManBing]

A cult devoted to dracoliches could have an interesting corollary in Ravenloft. Maybe not with an existent dracolich around - that would be quite overpowered, and Darkon is the only domain with actual dragons (and Azalin would probably quash or enslave any powerful dracolich actually hanging around) - but more with a sect of people trying to reassemble the skeleton of a fabled dracolich?

It would give the sect more of a "dabblers in powers they cannot control" sort of feel, so that they have to be stopped both for their own good and for that of the demiplane.

Most standard darklords would be utterly outclassed by a dracolich, so this could make for a good political crisis, along with the entire ethical question of whether the PCs should side with the evil they know (the darklord) versus the enemy unknown.

[Jack the Reaper]

I think that RL should have some dracoliches around, but they are not interested in political power, so they don't pose a direct threat to the darklords. I imagine them slumbering in deep underground caves, surrounded by ancient treasures and powerful artifacts, and only rarely rise to take a peronal part in the plot they scheme and act by their minions.

Speaking about dracoliches, IMC the domain of Cavitius is actualy an ancient empire, which have existed for unknown-thousands of years, something like Michael Moorcock's Melnibone. It was ruled by a long series of powerful emeprors, especially liches like Vecna, but also other ancient and mysterious beings, each of which was deposed by the next in line. Some of their names are remembered in legends, like The Blind King, The Faceless God, or some unpronunciable Lovecraftian names.
Anyway, one or more of those emperors was a dracolich. Maybe something remained from him...

Yours truly,
Jack the Reaper

[Pale]

I think HuManBing has some good points. A cult assembling a dracolich skeleton has a good bit of opportunity to it, whether or not they are successful or deluded.


I'm not sure, however, that a dracolich in general is a reasonable non-Darklord denizen. Wouldn't they be pretty significant fodder for a curse of their own? Lots of opportunities to fail power checks, due to schemes, nature, appetite. A dracolich might be a good elder-god-substitute, but outside that context I personally think you're drifting a bit away from Ravenloft's gothic underpinnings.

[Ornum]

I don't know a lot about some of the other pieces you mentioned from the Realms, but I do like the notion of gargoyles/golems seeking to destroy religion and the family/cult that worship unmaking, particular to those who might harness magic/creation.

In a world as ornate and, well, -gothic- as Ravenloft, having gargoyles from churches organized and hunting clergy and true believers like some demented murder of crows certainl sounds appealing. More and more start showing up in a town, roosting in the eaves of cathedrals, slowly depopulating the faithful? I'm not looking at the "canon" representation of a gargoyle, but rather something that might have come about through a corruption of the Powers. Hence - golems and gargoyles kind of dovetailing together.

This had me thinking a bit of inevitables for some reason (and I'm not sure how, or even if, the inevitables would fit in Ravenloft, so bear with me until I get to the point). Don't they punish those that violate certain universal concepts? In particular, the Varakhut go after those that seek to destroy a god. What if several Varakhut were somehow brought through the mists and were corrupted and now appear very much like a gargoyle? Now instead of seeking out those that would slay gods, they instead seek to destroy the faithful, as described above?

Feel free to ignore, just a random thought.

[Joël of the FoS]

And on another topic: In the module "The Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga" it mentions that Baba Yaga visited RL (and borrowed a living wal from there). Now that should be really interesting: How do you think Baba Yaga can be used in RL?

Mmm? What is this source?

[ewancummins]

Speaking about dracoliches, IMC the domain of Cavitius is actualy an ancient empire, which have existed for unknown-thousands of years, something like Michael Moorcock's Melnibone. It was ruled by a long series of powerful emeprors, especially liches like Vecna, but also other ancient and mysterious beings, each of which was deposed by the next in line. Some of their names are remembered in legends, like The Blind King, The Faceless God, or some unpronunciable Lovecraftian names.
Anyway, one or more of those emperors was a dracolich. Maybe something remained from him...

Yours truly,
Jack the Reaper

Ah! Way to redeem that domain! I have never liked Cavitius until just now. Your 'ancient empire' idea sounds cool.

[Pale]

This had me thinking a bit of inevitables for some reason (and I'm not sure how, or even if, the inevitables would fit in Ravenloft, so bear with me until I get to the point). Don't they punish those that violate certain universal concepts? In particular, the Varakhut go after those that seek to destroy a god. What if several Varakhut were somehow brought through the mists and were corrupted and now appear very much like a gargoyle? Now instead of seeking out those that would slay gods, they instead seek to destroy the faithful, as described above?

Feel free to ignore, just a random thought.

Random or not, I think your thought has merit. I think it has the potential to fit better - gargoyles upholding the standards of the religion and ...excommunicating... those who don't quite live up to it. On the flip side, I do have to say I like the notion of having something absolutely hostile and antithetical to the faithful, or even the idea of faith, roosting in the cathedrals high spaces. "This place of sanctuary has become a rallying point and stronghold for something antagonistic". Especially if it's on the order of an army forming.... each day that passes, the cathedral or church acquires more and more devilish masonry, with ones and twos going missing or turning up clubbed to death, until finally, the statuary, old and new, rise up and purge the cloister, abbey, neighborhood, village.

[The Giamarga]

And on another topic: In the module "The Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga" it mentions that Baba Yaga visited RL (and borrowed a living wal from there). Now that should be really interesting: How do you think Baba Yaga can be used in RL?

Mmm? What is this source?

I think he means The Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga, the 2e module. The first Dancing Hut module was written by Roger Moore in Dragon 83 and was remade for 2E based on the Dragon mod, Baba Yaga's Hut is a unique artifact mentioned in the 1E DMG.

@Jack can you give a page number for the reference?

The D&D Baba Yaga was since a long time rumored and recently revealed to be "... the foster mother of Iggwilv, originally known as Natasha the Dark, and by extension, the grandmother of Iuz and Drelzna. She has another foster daughter named Elena the Fair. Baba Yaga is also responsible for providing Kostchtchie the means to become a demon lord."

So she is tied to Greyhawk and Planescape lore already. Via Iggwilv she is Grazzt's Mother-In-Law.

Also Baba Yaga is known to have many "daughters", who are all young girls taken in and raised by her. In the module above she is noted to have two foster daughters: Natasha the Dark (CE Mage15) and Elena the Fair (LG Mage16). The former is later identified with Tasha (of the Hideous Laughter spell) who turns out to be an alias of a young Iggwilv, the famous Witch of Greyhawk.

Now who could the latter have really been? Could we perhaps tie this Elena to Ravenloft somehow? I'll need to review the module...

[Joël of the FoS]

Yes, I'd like to have the ref to update the crossover FAQ, if needs be

Joël

[The Giamarga]

I'll look it up over the weekend. Though I suspect the reference to be vague.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

On the flip side, I do have to say I like the notion of having something absolutely hostile and antithetical to the faithful, or even the idea of faith, roosting in the cathedrals high spaces. "This place of sanctuary has become a rallying point and stronghold for something antagonistic". Especially if it's on the order of an army forming.... each day that passes, the cathedral or church acquires more and more devilish masonry, with ones and twos going missing or turning up clubbed to death, until finally, the statuary, old and new, rise up and purge the cloister, abbey, neighborhood, village.

Hmmm... does the Last Redoubt have gargoyle statues on its roof?

If so, perhaps one of the ousted Eternal Order clerics has returned, seeking payback for how Bastion Raines booted them out of the place, and animated those statues as a means to avenge that insult. The gargoyles would secretly go after people in Nevuchar Springs who've converted to Ezra, then (with a little help from a curse that the cleric's pronounced against Raines) use the blood of their prey to animate more gargoyles like themselves. Before long, there'll be so many of them that they can start spreading to other Ezran churches, in Darkon and then beyond....

This could be the basis for a scenario involving a lot of travel, as PCs track the gargoyle-attacks from one country to another, and finally back to their point of origin. If desired, false leads could suggest that some other villain with gargoyle minions, like Strahd or the Phantom Lover, is to blame.