The Stars are NOT right...

[Carrion Crow]

As most people will have gathered from my previous threads, I like a degree of consistency and internal logic to my version of Ravenloft, so have suggested revisions to various Domains that I felt needed...tweaking.

However, having read the article about the Celestines group, I wanted to pose a few questions regarding the nature of the 'sky'.

Due to the general Cultural level of most Domains in the core and the Islands, I'm assuming that the 'stars' are used to aid navigation. As a previous thread queried how everyone knew where North was (and had some interesting suggestions) this covers the aspect of navigating via compass, but what of the nature of the 'stars'?

I'm assuming that the night sky above the Core has the same constellations/pattern of stars over each Domain and the same 'sun' and 'moon' are preceived by all Domains. The description of Sithicus in Domains of Dread does reference specific disordered constellations from Krynn and states that the moon is not visible (being Nuitari), but I'm choosing to say that the moon is still the same as that of the rest of the Core, it's just Soth's influence over Sithicus which creates a 'filter' that makes the moon look black.

So, are the stars the same over each Domain? Is this similar to the Crystal shell idea from Spelljammer? Do Domains that were once part of the Core, but are now displaced as Islands have the same sky? What exactly is the 'sun'?
If it is a shell with the stars on the inside, how big is the moon? Can you travel to the 'moon'? If you could, what's up there? Is this where Bluetspur 'relocated'? Or is the 'moon' a Domain in its own right? (In regards to the last, using Ramsey Campbell's 'The Hungry Moon' might be a good start for a particularly nasty possibiliy.)

Ideas and thoughts appreciated.

[Jimsolo]

I'd assume that the stars are rarely visible in Ravenloft, and that sailing is inherently perilous and land-mark based. When the stars are visible, I'd go with the core sharing a common sky, as well as the domains in clusters sharing a common sky. Between clusters (including the core) and islands of terror, there isn't necessarily a commonality. (Or maybe just enough to confuse a navigator.)

[The Lesser Evil]

On a general sense, domains within the same cluster share the same "night sky" (Ravenloft PHB p. 21) (presumably this would include most of the Core, as the Core is considered the largest cluster

It's my understanding that Sithicus used to not have the same moon as the rest of the Core. (In fact, for most people, Nuitari, as it is called, didn't not seem to exist at all, only visible to evil creatures.) However, as of Gaz IV (if not earlier) and the shift from Soth to Inza as darklords, that has changed. Nuitari's cycled shifted from 8 days to the normal monthly cycle. However, it can look differently to certain people from the normal Core's Moon, and it can still affect arcane spellcasters and spellcasting depending on the phase. (See Gaz IV p. 120).

There have been some sources (such as the Awakening, p. 7) that have referred to Nova Vaasa having five moons. However, I gather this has been inconsistent.

[Carrion Crow]

And this is the disadvantage of not having any post-2e material, although I did know about the Canon shift between Darklords in Sithicus...

Quite a lot of the fiction or flavour fiction has characters realising that they are no longer in their home plane by not recognising the stars above them, so I was assuming that they would be visible above the Domains of the Core.

Obviously the natures of both the Sea of Sorrows (due to the Darklord's curse) and the Nocturnal Sea (due to it's almost perpetual cloud cover) would make navigation via the stars (or anything else, for that matter) quite perilous.

As there are quite a few werebeasts in Ravenloft, the moon must be at least partially visible and stating to your players that the moon is full is quite an evocative veiled warning to them should they be venturing out at night...

As Ravenloft is a low-fantasy Gothic setting, would you allow your characters to be able to travel to the 'moon' or is that a bit too Baron Munchausen? And if the Mists transported the PC's to the moon, would their characters actually realise? It would probably freak out the players if they looked 'up' to see the Core spread out above them...

Perhaps a Lamordian noble has constructed a powerful telescope and observed what he believes are structures on the surface of the moon. Using his considerable resources, he has constructed an 'airship' in order to send an expedition to the moon. What would this expedition discover up there? Is the whole scheme his own idea or is something on the moon influencing his actions? Perhaps the expedition reaches the moon to find a ruined amd seemingly abandoned city. This might be a good place to relocate Timor, as I always felt it was a bit too 'alien' to be included in Canon Ravenloft. What starts out as a simple expedition would then turn into a fight for survival, as the group is stalked amongst the ruins by the Marikith, noy entirely knowing what was out there, as their party is picked off one by one...

Hmm, I think that has got potential...

"In Timor, everyone can hear you scream...just not for very long..."

[Resonant Curse]

The Spelljammer adventure Crystal Spheres had a possible ending of the main villain being pulled into Ravenloft and getting his own crystal sphere as a domain. That would *vastly* expand the demiplane.

[Manofevil]

You might read what I wrote here carrion Crow. http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/foru ... =19&t=7205

[Carrion Crow]

Very cool, Manofevil.

[The Lesser Evil]

As Ravenloft is a low-fantasy Gothic setting, would you allow your characters to be able to travel to the 'moon' or is that a bit too Baron Munchausen? And if the Mists transported the PC's to the moon, would their characters actually realise? It would probably freak out the players if they looked 'up' to see the Core spread out above them...

Because of its nature and the nature of just about every product created for it, I consider Ravenloft to be dark fantasy but not really low fantasy. With that approach in mind, I think how you dress it up is probably a more important question than if you do it. It should come from either a revolutionary scientific breakthrough; the discovery of some ancient, creepy magical secret, or some other potentially world-shattering development. Either its nature would be kept completely secret or it would provoke a major response throughout the Core. Wonder, mystery, and horror.

Perhaps a Lamordian noble has constructed a powerful telescope and observed what he believes are structures on the surface of the moon. Using his considerable resources, he has constructed an 'airship' in order to send an expedition to the moon. What would this expedition discover up there? Is the whole scheme his own idea or is something on the moon influencing his actions? Perhaps the expedition reaches the moon to find a ruined amd seemingly abandoned city.

If you were so inclined to tolerate modernity creep, you could have it be a joint project between Lamordia's intellectual community and Falkovnia's military community.

This might be a good place to relocate Timor, as I always felt it was a bit too 'alien' to be included in Canon Ravenloft. What starts out as a simple expedition would then turn into a fight for survival, as the group is stalked amongst the ruins by the Marikith, noy entirely knowing what was out there, as their party is picked off one by one...

Hmm, I think that has got potential...

"In Timor, everyone can hear you scream...just not for very long..."

My take on Timor is that it is a dread labyrinthine realm that used to be an ancient, great city that was run into the ground by decadence, etc. Paridon, as a fairly "modern" city, was built atop it and probably several other civilizations in between. Going down into Timor is a work of exploration somewhere between an archaeological expedition and a journey to the center of the earth. A big part of the flavor to the domain to is me is discovering the broken wonders of the past and pondering/witnessing the horrors that caused the city's downfall. The marikith would first appear to be completely alien, but then as secrets are overturned, we might learn they are (or were) more human than was expected.

On the other hand, I think Bluetspur would make a great place to put up their on the moon. (I think making Bluetspur the moon has been a fairly popular fanon topic).

[Hazgarn]

As Ravenloft is a low-fantasy Gothic setting, would you allow your characters to be able to travel to the 'moon' or is that a bit too Baron Munchausen? And if the Mists transported the PC's to the moon, would their characters actually realise? It would probably freak out the players if they looked 'up' to see the Core spread out above them...

On the other hand, I think Bluetspur would make a great place to put up their on the moon. (I think making Bluetspur the moon has been a fairly popular fanon topic).

I've contemplated doing this. In keeping with the Lovecraftian flavor, rather than having the Mists act as transport, the idea would be that some sort of regular "natural" occurrence (stars aligning, a comet appearing, a solstice, an eclipse, something) causes a conjunction-like event where Blutspur/the moon can be accessed from a gate that opens up the Core. This, rather than Blutspur ever having been physically a part of the Core, would explain where Barovia's Thaani population comes from. Taking a page from Call of Cthullu, there would be the typical strange dreams and nightmares heralding this upcoming event, possibly a few limited incursions pointing toward the bizarre nature of the threat (I've always wanted to use Marcu Vasilis from Forgotten Children), before the characters were forced to face the terrors of the Moon head-on.

(Much of this was pulled from ideas elsewhere on the forum, it's just been a long time, and I can't remember which.)

[Carrion Crow]

Oooh, me like! Perhaps the incursions from the 'moon' are heralded by a red moon, as Bluetspur was illustrated as a red blob in the Red Box. I too like Marcu Vasilis from Forgotten Children (and the previous article whose name escapes me that introduced the take on Bluetspur where its reality 'transposes' that of the actual reality), and this would give me an excuse to use him.

Wasn't there a Lovecrfat tale that had an attic window that acted as a Gate to other realms when struck by a certain type of light? "The Gable Window" perhaps? The idea of a semi-abandoned manor house, whose attic window glows with unholy light under the red moon, seems somewhat appropriate for Ravenloft.

[Brandi]

Wasn't there a Lovecrfat tale that had an attic window that acted as a Gate to other realms when struck by a certain type of light? "The Gable Window" perhaps?

Sort of-- it is "The Gable Window", but the scrying/gate effect was invoked by an incantation. (Also, these days it's generally credited as an August Derleth story, with Lovecraft either having provided the premise or done some editing on the final writing.)

[DeepShadow of FoS]

So, are the stars the same over each Domain? Is this similar to the Crystal shell idea from Spelljammer? Do Domains that were once part of the Core, but are now displaced as Islands have the same sky? What exactly is the 'sun'?
If it is a shell with the stars on the inside, how big is the moon? Can you travel to the 'moon'? If you could, what's up there? Is this where Bluetspur 'relocated'? Or is the 'moon' a Domain in its own right? (In regards to the last, using Ramsey Campbell's 'The Hungry Moon' might be a good start for a particularly nasty possibiliy.)

My campaign is branching into this territory as well, with my PC's about to journey to a space station that is actually hidden behind the moon. So my answers are that yes, the moon is where Bluetspur relocated, possibly with the remnants of Timor. A moon is a big place, so I may put other stuff on the opposite side. I've got the vampire DL from Thekla hibernating on an asteroid way out there, so these three domains are forming a new cluster.

As Ravenloft is a low-fantasy Gothic setting, would you allow your characters to be able to travel to the 'moon' or is that a bit too Baron Munchausen? And if the Mists transported the PC's to the moon, would their characters actually realise? It would probably freak out the players if they looked 'up' to see the Core spread out above them...

Obviously I don't consider traveling to the moon too outrageous. My PC's will get a brief diversion into Star Wars/Trek/Jammer/Finder before going back to the Core. It's a change of scenery, like most other Islands.

[Resonant Curse]

Lurker at the Threshold also had a stained glass window that seemed to offer a view to a different place at times.