Magic pistol question

Alanik Ray · Post by **Alanik Ray** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:11 am

Hey, guys, I am running a Pathfinder campaign and one of my PCs is a gunslinger. I am planning on giving him a magic pepperbox pistol in one of the coming sessions and I would like some help designing the weapon. I'm thinking of a magic pistol that let's the wielder use Haste in order to gain an extra attack, but I don't know how to do this. I was thinking of giving the pistol three uses of Haste per day. Should the gunslinger spend a grit point in order to do so or should the haste uses be for free? What do you think is more balanced? I was also tinkering with the idea of the gunslinger being able to cast Time Stop once per month, but again, should this be activated with one or more grit points since its such a powerful spell? I'm really at a loss here... any help will be welcomed. Thanks in advance.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:04 am

For me, the question would come down to this: is this pistol usable by anyone else? If so, should other users be able to use its abilities? If the answer to both was "yes", then I'd say it probably shouldn't use a grit point. UNLESS, only Gunslingers can activate its ability, because then tying it to the use of a grit point makes sense. There is yet another alternative I might consider: The activation cost is technically free, but it can only be activated so long as the Gunslinger still has Grit points. I'm not necessarily saying this is the better option, simply that it's a small compromise between the two.

One final question: is this gun meant to be important to the story? Or is it just another magic item in the world?

PS. I'll try to post more later today, but I'm running to work and didn't have time for a full analysis.

MichaelTumey · Post by **MichaelTumey** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:35 am

Alanik Ray wrote:Hey, guys, I am running a Pathfinder campaign and one of my PCs is a gunslinger. I am planning on giving him a magic pepperbox pistol in one of the coming sessions and I would like some help designing the weapon. I'm thinking of a magic pistol that let's the wielder use Haste in order to gain an extra attack, but I don't know how to do this.

Well, how you make any magic item is a combination of a given spell (haste), minimum casting level for haste, and the material item cost (pepperbox pistol). Cost to sell the item is twice the price of creating it.

Alanik Ray wrote:I was thinking of giving the pistol three uses of Haste per day. Should the gunslinger spend a grit point in order to do so or should the haste uses be for free? What do you think is more balanced? I was also tinkering with the idea of the gunslinger being able to cast Time Stop once per month, but again, should this be activated with one or more grit points since its such a powerful spell? I'm really at a loss here... any help will be welcomed. Thanks in advance.

Giving it 3 uses per day is appropriate. Grit is not a supernatural ability and as Ender asks - can anybody use the pistol or only a gunslinger? If you limit it to gunslinger, I'd say the gunslinger has to have at least a single point of grit to use the magical haste of the pistol, but shouldn't be required to spend it. Otherwise if anybody can use the pistol, grit shouldn't be a necessary component for its use.

Gonzoron of the FoS · Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:10 am

We'd have to know the level of your character and their current wealth in magic items to know if it would be balanced. If he can "afford" it on the wealth-by-level chart, sure.

Compare to Boots of Speed for the haste feature:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/won ... s-of-speed

How many rounds did you intend the haste to work for? Can you just give him a "Virtual" pair of boots of speed built into the gun? (Note: if he's willing to never wear magical boots, or if you never give out magical boots, this would be perfectly balanced. If he ever wears magical boots, you should double the price, to account for the "boots" being slotless)

Once per month is not a very common restriction on magic items. Usually it's per day. For the record, a 1/day command word activated item that cast time stop would could 9*17*1800/5=55,080gp. I suppose you might just divide by 30 if it's once per month, but I have a feeling that starts to break down the math. I mean, a potion of time stop (if you were allowed to make it (standard potions top out at 3rd level, but there are some feats that increase that. Don't know if there are any official ones that go up to 9th level)) would cost 7650. For a one-time only use. So why would anyone make potions, ever, if they could make an item that can cast the same spell once every 8 days for less?

So, I think 1/day is probably the longest recharge period you should allow.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:54 am

As yet another option that veers dangerously away from the original question: if this is an ability you want only this character to have, I'd actually consider granting it as a class feature of some sort to the character. That way, it's more like Matrix-style Bullet Time he gets be virtue of being awesome instead of having an awesome gun. That said, it's something I'd be more willing to do in Eberron, which calls for pulp action characters. Additionally, if you leave it as a magic item, that always leaves open the possibility that the villain gets his hands on it and some point and you can turn the table on your players.

Alanik Ray · Post by **Alanik Ray** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:16 pm

Thanks for all the help.

The weapon uses temporal energies, that's why it can be used to "speed" time and stop time. I'm just trying to find a way to do this with the rules. The Time Stop would be usable only once per month and it slowly drains away at the character's life energies. This isn't just another magic weapon in my game, it has a backstory that will show up in a future adventure and it was made by a Fir.

That Boots of Speed aproach is a nice touch. I was thinking of draining one year of the character's life expectancy for each use of Time Stop, so in a few months it would become apparent that he was aging before his friend's eyes.

MichaelTumey · Post by **MichaelTumey** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:41 pm

Last year, I designed and posted a gunslinging archetype for Magus,HERE.

I wanted a to design a magus spellcaster that emulated Roland from Steven King's Gunslinger series with magic working through a pair of revolver pistols for an Old West analog setting I was playing in. One of his class features, gained at 11th level is Swerve Bullet (Su) - the shootist gains the ability to alter the trajectory of bullet fired at him by sheer force of will, working as deflect arrow feat, but with magic instead of your hand. This ability replaces improved spell recall. This is one way to handle a Matrix style ducking bullets fire at you.

Of course this is for magus and not a gunslinger.

Gonzoron of the FoS · Post by **Gonzoron of the FoS** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:57 pm

Having a backstory is always a plus for a Ravenloft item, and the curse of stealing life from him is fitting too. But I would advise to still try to fit the actual mechanics of the item into the game in a fair way, based on the magic item guidelines, to keep it comparable to other existing items and prevent balance issues.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:54 pm

Haste, in an of itself, is not particularly powerful. Sure, that extra attack can make all the difference sometimes, but compared to a spellcaster casting an extra spell in a round, it's not a huge deal. Time Stop, on the other hand, is a fairly powerful spell in the hands of the right player. It might help to also know what level the players are at. If this is a low-level game (or, really, even mid-level) I'd say that Time Stop should maybe not be introduced so quickly. Let the players know it has the Haste effect and tease that there's something greater to it. Later, you can let them discover the Time Stop, while still withholding the curse. Let the gunslinger start using Time Stop and then soon realize it's cursed. But again, this is something I'd probably save for higher level play. Now, I may simply be cynical thanks to my groups, but my players always seem to come up with insane solutions to problems I've set before them. And if I give them something powerful... I know that it will most certainly be used in short order, curse or not.

EDIT: Were it me, I'd likely treat it as Boots of Speed, which have been previously mentioned. It doesn't sound like the firearm is specific to gunslingers, so I'd treat it as any other Wondrous Item.

Garudos Celestar · Post by **Garudos Celestar** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:45 am

Ender wrote: Let the players know it has the Haste effect and tease that there's something greater to it. Later, you can let them discover the Time Stop, while still withholding the curse. Let the gunslinger start using Time Stop and then soon realize it's cursed. But again, this is something I'd probably save for higher level play.

Sounds like a good excuse to play around with the Weapons of Legacy rules.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:17 pm

Personally, I abhor the Weapons of Legacy rules. Weapons that grow with the players are all well and good, but I'm not a fan of having to pay X amount of gold to fulfill a story-related quest and to have penalties to skills or attacks because a weapon suddenly became better.

MichaelTumey · Post by **MichaelTumey** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:27 am

Ender wrote:Personally, I abhor the Weapons of Legacy rules. Weapons that grow with the players are all well and good, but I'm not a fan of having to pay X amount of gold to fulfill a story-related quest and to have penalties to skills or attacks because a weapon suddenly became better.

Unfortunately, my version of the Weapons of Legacy concept for my published horror setting has yet to be published, though it will be part of the upcoming GM's Guide to the Kaidan setting of Japanese horror (PFRPG). Unlike Weapons of Legacy there is no expenditure of gold, nor experience points in the leveling up process. There is a reliance on Kaidan's honor mechanic which, of course, is specific to Kaidan only, so that makes things a bit awkward for a non-Kaidan game. The best thing about Ancestral Relics is the primary leveling up requirement involves an Event Trigger. The beauty of an event trigger is that it can be used to keep a party on a GM's intended direction in the story or campaign. If the GM wants to include a specific event like defeating a specific NPC in combat, acquiring a specific item or performing some other activity - build it as an event trigger for an Ancestral Relic.

The following rules apply to all Ancestral Relics:

1. Ancestral Relics are tied to the family that possesses the item, having been empowered by the binding of the soul of one of that family's ancestors into the weapon or item.

2. Ancestral Relics work only as masterwork items in the hands of someone not of the appropriate family.

3. Ancestral Relics may be either weapons or items.

4. Ancestral Relics exist in many bloodlines, including Samurai, Commoner, Animal and Tainted castes. Most families only possess one such Ancestral Item, though some of the greater samurai houses have two or more.

5. Ancestral Relic powers are activated through event triggers, unique to each item. (For example: An Ancestral Relic Katana's first power is activated once its wielder defeats an enemy of the family in single combat). Powers are activated at GM's discretion.

6. Ancestral Relics are tied to a character's honor. Those possessing low honor can only activate or use the first power. Only those with high honor can use an item’s highest powers. Thus second powes and above require a minimum amount of Honor points to be accrued.

7. Once an Ancestral Relic's power is activated, additional powers cannot be activated until the wielder has gained at least two character levels. Thus powers are activated a minimum of every two levels.

8. Ancestral Weapons can gain a +1 bonus to attack and damage at each power activation up to +5, after which they can then acquire varying special weapon properties or spells attached to them.

9. Ancestral Relic Items can be a personal item or utensil, for use in and/or out of combat.

10. Ancestral Item powers never require an expenditure of gold or experience points to activate, only class levels, event triggers and honor.

Here is a sample ancestral relic - the Naginata of the White Path...

VIEW CONTENT:

The Giamarga · Post by **The Giamarga** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:09 am

Hey great sneak preview there Michael. Thanks for sharing it.

Ignoring the cost of weapons of legacy is a common houserule.

For a great magical pepper box dual wielding gun mage check out Ari Marmell's excellent Iron Kingdoms novel in Thunder Forged

Has the PC dipped spellslinger wizard yet?

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