Ebb remembers being an outlander?

[cure]

We have previously established that Azalin can suspend the activity of the Book of Names so that a given foreigner doesn't forget that he or she is a foreigner. This courtesy has been extended the to ambassador of Nova Vaasa for example. Is there any evidence that it has been extended to Ebb?

[alhoon]

I don't think so.
Ebb when she left Avernus didn't live Darkon for example. And she was lamenting Azalin's passing instead of trying to find a way out.

Also... are we SURE Ebb is an outlander? I think she is, but I'm not sure.

[HuManBing]

Ebb was listed in 2nd ed. as a Shadow Dragon, with specific reference to Greyhawk.

In 3rd ed. Ebb's homeworld became a very sci-fi noir type of place - similar to a bleak asteroid around a dying star.

In 3rd ed., Gloom (Ebb's mate) is definitely able to remember certain things of his homeworld - he was tortured by a wizard, and hates spellcasters.

[vipera aspis]

Anyone else have them mate and secretly produce a clutch of eggs while the King was indisposed?

I sure did.

[Jimsolo]

Yep. Then, once Azalin returned, I had he and Ebb foster the eggs to other ne'er-do-wells throughout the Core in an effort to sow some seeds for later villainy.

[HuManBing]

Weird twist idea: What if Azalin gave Ebb a strict limit on the number of hatchlings permitted to remain in Darkon? The rationale would be resource sustainability (a kingdom doesn't have enough wild fauna to support too many dragons roaming around) and undetection (the hoi polloi of the kingdom might behave irrationally and panic upon seeing too many dragons, making things hard for Azalin to keep order). Most humans need a mean birth rate of 2.1 children per adult couple to sustain a static population count. Azalin might permit Ebb and Gloom to house three offspring, and no more, within his kingdom's borders.

This could lead to interesting conflicts between Ebb's loyalty to Azalin (who gave her a new home after her entire race died on her homeworld) versus her reproductive instincts ("dude, her entire race died on her homeworld").

Gloom's opinions on the matter could also be interesting, especially if he's weaker-willed than Ebb and distrusts all spellcasters - Azalin included.

Ebb might have to pit her offspring against each other, to determine survival of the fittest. She might outright kill or starve the obvious runts of the litter (resource-conserving behavior which is quite common among predator species in natural Earth biology). The mediocre progeny she could covertly send abroad out of Darkon, to fend for themselves, which would be in keeping with a strict reading of her agreement with Azalin, while still permitting them a slightly improved chance of survival compared to death at their broodmates' claws.

Falkovnia's kobold insurrection could well be partially supported by Ebb's cast-off children, causing further confusion and disorder within Drakov's nation. Azalin would probably have no complaints about this state of affairs.

[High Priest Mikhal]

Weird twist idea: What if Azalin gave Ebb a strict limit on the number of hatchlings permitted to remain in Darkon? The rationale would be resource sustainability (a kingdom doesn't have enough wild fauna to support too many dragons roaming around) and undetection (the hoi polloi of the kingdom might behave irrationally and panic upon seeing too many dragons, making things hard for Azalin to keep order).

Dragons can technically sustain themselves on almost anything, even dirt and rocks, but the rest is pretty much on the money. As for going undetected, that would cause even more problems IMO. Panicky masses aside, adventurers looking for the "dragon's hoard" or to make armor out of their hides could become a serious problem. Although Dragoncraft armor using shadow dragon hide and scales offers immunity to negative levels, invaluable for incursions into Necropolis to destroy Death. I could see Azalin magically aging hatchlings until they're big enough to make armor out of. He's just that sort of pragmatist and has plenty of practice justifying heinous acts for "the greater good."

[alhoon]

Since he had little trouble killing his own son, I can't think he would stop and an ally's children.

However, he probably values Ebb's loyalty more. If Ebb on the other hand is on board for that, then why not? As for the limit... Azalin would probably have Ebb and Gloom keep their offspring safe and secret till they're mature enough to get the heck out of Darkon.

[Jimsolo]

Ebb is a chaotic evil dragon from a chaotic evil breed of dragons. Typically, your chaotic evil dragons don't really care what happens to their children, so I could see Ebb being reasonably okay with Azalin using her children for that sort of thing.

The Gaz II tells us that Ebb views the relationship between her and Azalin as an alliance of equals, and while I think she could easily be persuaded to allow Azalin to magically age (or much better, kill and then magically enlarge) her children for the purposes of components for armor or magic items, I think that she would probably get Azalin to do something for her in exchange, and probably something big. It isn't that she would have any particular moral or ethical issue with what he's doing, but I think it would probably rankle with her and her draconic pride. Still, I don't think it's out of the question at all.

Personally, having re-read her entry, I think Azalin allows her to keep her real memories. She's smart enough to realize that foreigners forget their pasts in Darkon, and if she herself believed she was born in Darkon, she would never be able to shake the paranoid suspicion that Azalin was mucking with her mind. I think that exact paranoia would prevent any of her offspring from fully trusting Azalin, incidentally.

Those are just my own thoughts, really. I'm sure those of other people will differ.

[alhoon]

While components have their value, I would argue that dragons that haven't been turned to a coat, are even more valuable. And dangerous.
So Azalin may just take one for components or to turn to draco-vassalich and make sure the rest are kicked out of Darkon before they start making trouble.

[Zilfer]

One day the dragon's will rise up for Falkovnia's next incursion and kill loads of them. Then Azalin raises the dragon's that die as undead dragons!!!!

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Personally, having re-read her entry, I think Azalin allows her to keep her real memories. She's smart enough to realize that foreigners forget their pasts in Darkon, and if she herself believed she was born in Darkon, she would never be able to shake the paranoid suspicion that Azalin was mucking with her mind

Probably true. Aside from the points you make, there's the fact that (until Gloom) she was the only one of her kind around. That would require some heavy duty false history to explain where her parents, and all others of her race, went. A species like that would leave big footprints (literally and figuratively). It's less disruptive on the memories of everyone else in the area to just let Ebb keep her memories.

[High Priest Mikhal]

I was joking around about making Dragoncraft armor of the hatchlings. I highly doubt Ebb would even consider it; she and Gloom would likely just disappear if he so much as suggested it, or they would attack Darkon first then disappear, and he'd lose a valuable ally/minion and gain enemies that could do real harm. Azalin may be blinded by pride, but he's not stupid. Plus there are easier ways to outfit expendable assets against the Shroud.

[Jimsolo]

If Ebb were a Lawful dragon I might agree with you, but the source material seems to indicate that Chaotic Evil dragons (which she is) don't give a damn about their offspring. Not to mention the fact that I think it would dovetail nicely with the Darkonian feel. (Azalin's mount sacrifices her own children for political gain? I love it. Who does THAT remind us of?)

I can easily see a DM taking it either way, but I highly doubt Ebb would be so stupid as to attack Darkon, and I don't think Azalin would bring it up in such a way that she would be inclined to.

Just my personal feelings on it, of course.

[Ryan Naylor]

To maintain their species, a mated pair of dragons only need to get 2 wyrmlings to adulthood every 200 years, so if they lay eggs all the time, they can afford to completely disregard their children.

If they only brood once a century, the eggs become much more precious, and they'd have to look after them more carefully.