RLO transitions - a game ends, another begins (long)

[Le Noir Faineant]

Ah, gaise, well, then let's do this.

Ewan, very predictably, was my agent all along.

"The Rising" should get the group to the point where they realize his vampiric nature IN CHARACTER.

"The Fountain of Youth" will show possibilities to redeem all of the old characters, but mainly Shana.

As to why I said that to Ewan, this was all situational - you others did something that was completely useless
and would have led to your destruction anyway, because the clue to the adventure was specifically to get Leo OUT of the temple;
we had been building that up through the last adventure, so I figured you would at least have some sort of a clue.

Now, what triggered this to become rather frustrating experience, was Steve's action, mainly.
While I rationalize that he probably did it to get things going, this kind of berserk frenzy broke the scene,
and has sabotaged us in the past a few times already. Now, it's not always Steve's fault,
so my earlier statement really went to everyone. The next one who does something stupid will lose his character,
and likely the place in the game.

Probably it's my fault, too, for asking too much concentration from my players, but I really feel like Ravenloft games
should be about tricks and story, not about simple hack'n slash.
We've had that disparity in out group that some where willing to buy into the mood of the story and to really ROLEPLAY, and the others weren't - or so it seems to me.
And I am really at the point where I say, okay, the run for the old chars is over for now, if you pull the same crap in the new game, you're out.

Sounds more extreme than it really is, but understand, I am putting my time and effort into this.
Anybody really thinking I was in a happy mood to play on Sunday?
And yet there was never a question for me to call off the game. For that, I expect that my DMing efforts are respected.

[ewancummins]

Indeed, Jamethon's curse had come back after he reentered Ravenloft. He had developed certain vampiric features in the previous game, which vanished after Ezra/Tatyana was defeated and apparantly slain the first time. I noted that 'Jamethon may not need the food' line.

[ewancummins]

Don't be too hard on yourself, Rafe. It had some confused spots, as chat games often do, but it was pretty cool in the end.

Since we are discussing the game here, and now that I've had time to think about it, let me offer some feedback.

Tarlyn's PC, Brethana:

Tarlyn's PC was role-played consistently. She was a big, strong, violent barbarian on a quest for revenge. She had been away from the party for a couple of years, and really had little idea what was going on. She missed a lot of stuff. Steve did not abuse player knowledge, which meant that he had to play her as even more confused than the rest of us. Shana and Jamethon were at each other's throats, and she didn't even know why. Indeed, she didn't even know why or quite how they all ended up on a gigantic door floating in the open ocean. It seemed reasonable that she would be in a bad mood. She just wanted to track down the giant who killed her husband and stole her child. What did any of this have to do with her goals? Had she been taken here by the gods, so that she could find the giant? Was she cursed? What the heck was going on?

Then, the party met Leo, and he did the whole 'I vant to suck yer blooood' routine. Of course she wanted to smash this creepy SOB. We all did. When we went back the next day, ready for a fight , she saw him and attacked. That seemed pretty much like what I'd expect a rage-filled barbarian to do.

I don't think Steve's in-game decisions were at fault. I think the problem was that his PC was not suited to the type of game you wanted to run.

[ewancummins]

Jamethon and Shana;

Shana hated Jamethon. He felt a curious mixture of enmity, pity, and disgust for her. This was all due to some very strong and consistent roleplaying on Kintire's part, in the Realms of Dread game.


Of course, both Kintire and I knew that Jamethon and Shana were enemies. I offered to make a new character, as did, I believe, Kintire. I even rolled up a PC, bought items, and wrote a background.

As DM, you had plans for our original characters. That's cool. I respect that.

Still, it was evident from before the game even began that there would be a lot of tension and hostility between the two PCs. That seriously undermined the party's ability to work together.

[ewancummins]

I know you were having some personal issues Sunday. I appreciate that you still took time to run the game.

If you ever need to cancel a game to deal with stuff, I'm sure we'd all understand. Life happens.

[kintire]

You didn't like that Moorkroft could not enter the temple to help you guys seek and destroy Leo? Neither did Jamethon.

Not quite. I just felt that as far as the actual resolution was concerned, I was just baggage. As far as I could tell, the line about only Moorkroft could defeat Leo and the rest of us were stumbling around in the dark was pretty much dead on for the whole scenario.

That's what I mean about maybe not knowing enough about the setting. I was presented, in that adventure, with three challenges: the black Kraken-thing, Leo, and Moorkroft. On each occasion my powers and abilities were useless (can't cast spells underwater because I can't speak, can't cast spells in the temple because I go blind). And I had no idea what to do at all in any situation.

I now find out that even my basic ideas were wrong. Shana, and I, were focussing on not letting Leo escape. Given a powerful vampire trapped in a temple, the absolute last thing on Shana's mind was to get him OUT. The fact he couldn't chase us out of the temple was our only advantage.

Raf says we had the clues to work out what we needed to do, but I missed them and reading the transcript back I still can't see them. That's why I say I maybe just don't have the background knowledge to spot them. There were many siugnificant sounding Ravenloft references which went right over my head. At the mosst basic level, everybody else seems to know who Leo IS. I have no clue. I think I'm just not spotting the clues because I'm not understanding the references. So when I face the enemy, My powers have been turned off at the wall, I have no idea what to do, and all I can do is wait for some deus ex machina... or Diabolus ex machina, to solve the problem for me.

It is a little frustrating.

[kintire]

I know you were having some personal issues Sunday. I appreciate that you still took time to run the game.

Yes absolutely. It was a fun game. The atmosphere was superbly done, and the villain had a very powerful presence despite the fact he had relatively little "screen time".

[ewancummins]

Well, I had no clear idea of how to handle the kraken, either. None of us did.

My character's abilities were also gimped. He was struck blind a couple of times. Heck, he couldn't even enter the temple to help the party against Leo.

I thought that Shana did mention the possibility that desecrating the temple might let Leo out. Jamethon pointed out that we could then fight him outside.

I understand your concerns over the heavy use of Ravenloft lore. The thing is, Rafe changes so much that the player knowledge wouldn't necessarily be useful to us even if we were to abuse it.

[kintire]

My character's abilities were also gimped. He was struck blind a couple of times. Heck, he couldn't even enter the temple to help the party against Leo.

Yes but you resolved the situaation anyway. I still haave no very clear idea how. As far as I can tell its noit a matter so much of knowing facts, its about how the world works. As you say, Shana did think desecrating the temple might let Leo out, but she viewed that as a potential disaster.

Of course, this is In Character as well. Shana has no idea Ravenloft even exists as a coherent place to know anything about. As far as she iss concerned the mists dump you in another plane, but she has no suspicion that its different regions of the same one each time.

[Le Noir Faineant]

While I will adress all this later in a longer fashion, two things:

I am glad that we are having such a constructive conversation about the game everyone. Thanks.

As to your other comments, player knowledge was never wanted or needed;
the only thing everybody needs to know is that in our continuity, Ezra and Strahd's bride are one and the same,
and therefore the implication that Ezra's existence and the existence of the Demiplane of Dread are probably connected.

The only thing you guys need to do is to buy in the mood that I want to create:

GOTHIC atmosphere. Think Kenneth Branagh's "Frankenstein", or the movie "Ravenous".

(The later being the explicit model for our last two adventures.)

[kintire]

There is absolutely no doubt that on the atmosphere creation front the game was an unqualified success.

[steveflam]

On my part I played Brethana that way because of her background- her husband was killed by a lycanthrope who also had kidnapped her child. That one thing drove her...... Maybe it was too much but I dont think so.

I was hoping RAf would use her background but he didn't.... which is ok by me just the same.


I like the chat game but I much prefer the PbP there is no madnesss of teh chat where evryone types at once etc.....
Alsso it is much easier for a DM to control the PbP than the chat.

[VAN]

Well I like the game very much, but I agree that I felt useless more than once. I had nothing to do because of antimagic, be blinded etc and had the feeling that Jamethon was the lead actor and we the support...which was indeed frustrating at some point. I would prefer been able to use my spells, abilities etc in future and not depend on other player actions.

Chat or PbP is same for me, I like them both PbP has more order but on the other hand chat games are faster and you do more things. If we had tried to play these scenes in PbP would have taken months!

I like the RL details actually, I don't understand them all of course but I like how important figures are tied together and appear in game.

The atmosphere is amazing, gothic and all I like in a Ravenloft game!

In few words wtg Raf and I look farward to play the new game.

[ewancummins]

PbP does have its advantages.

Have you looked at Fantasy Grounds, Raf?
I've given it some thought. Package deals with up to 60% discount...

[ewancummins]

There is absolutely no doubt that on the atmosphere creation front the game was an unqualified success.

Yes, that was the strong point. Raf has always been good at building atmosphere.

He also makes excellent use of Ravenloft lore, reinterpreting old characters in new and exciting ways.