Baron Mordenheim

[DeepShadow of FoS]

According to LotB, Dr. Mordenheim is a baron. Is it just me, or is this new?

[Agamemnon]

According to the oldest source on Dr. Murderhome I could find, namely Realm of Terror, p. 105, Victor is indeed an aristocrat, but his specific titles and holdings aren't mentioned. The text merely states: "His sharp, pronounced features belie an aristocratic background (his father was a lord with considerable holdings)."

Later on the same page is stated that "he wears no jewelry other than a ring with his family crest..." It is most common for noble families to have family crests, I suppose.

Taken together, we can gather that the doctor is of noble birth, but whether or not he is baron, the text doesn't say. Considering that he lives in the lands of Baron von Aubrecker, it would be a tad strange if Victor was also a baron, given that there is usually only one per barony. Victor could have left his ancestral lands, of course, but noble titles usually only come with the land attached to it. If you give up your barony, technically you are no longer a baron.

[DocBeard]

They could've just used Baron because von Aubrucker is a baron and they didn't want Mordenheim to have claim on the country.

also oh em gee I never put that together until now, he totally is "Doctor Murder Home".

[ewancummins]

According to the oldest source on Dr. Murderhome I could find, namely Realm of Terror, p. 105, Victor is indeed an aristocrat, but his specific titles and holdings aren't mentioned. The text merely states: "His sharp, pronounced features belie an aristocratic background (his father was a lord with considerable holdings)."

Later on the same page is stated that "he wears no jewelry other than a ring with his family crest..." It is most common for noble families to have family crests, I suppose.

Taken together, we can gather that the doctor is of noble birth, but whether or not he is baron, the text doesn't say. Considering that he lives in the lands of Baron von Aubrecker, it would be a tad strange if Victor was also a baron, given that there is usually only one per barony. Victor could have left his ancestral lands, of course, but noble titles usually only come with the land attached to it. If you give up your barony, technically you are no longer a baron.

A title might come without land, depending on its origin and the system of titles in the country.

[Agamemnon]

also oh em gee I never put that together until now, he totally is "Doctor Murder Home".

Yeah, about 90 percent of Ravenloft's names are like that.

If one knows just a smattering of Indo-European languages, Ravenloft as written is pretty much ruined with its lands of Blood Trail, Rich Field Mouse, Demented Place, Gehenna (well, almost), Disease, etc., and its villains named Evil Eye, Malicious-Minded, Murderhome, and my personal favourite Evil Wickedness (I kid you not).

"All hail Lord Evil Wickedness, Ruler of Disease!"

Personally, I find such naming conventions a bit lazy, but what are you gonna do other than rename things in your own campaigns? At least it's a time-honoured tradition in Ravenloft, going all the way back to I6.
Who doesn't fondly remember the crypt inscriptions with such gems as Intrin Sik Valoo, Amerigo Standardski, Isolde Yunk or Stabor Indi Bhak?

[Agamemnon]

A title might come without land, depending on its origin and the system of titles in the country.

Yes, some noble titles come without lands, but in this specific case, the title of Baron usually means "a lord of a barony."

Things could work differently in Lamordia, of course. As you say, Ravenloft isn't Europe, and maybe in Lamordia there can be barons without baronies. It isn't the way things work with real-life landed nobility, though. We have the Earl of Marlboro or the Duchess of York, for instance, not the Duchess of Nothing Other Than Having the Title of Duchess. Nobility is almost defined by fief ownership.

[ewancummins]

Yeah, about 90 percent of Ravenloft's names are like that.

If one knows just a smattering of Indo-European languages, Ravenloft as written is pretty much ruined with its lands of Blood Trail, Rich Field Mouse, Demented Place, Gehenna (well, almost), Disease, etc., and its villains named Evil Eye, Malicious-Minded, Murderhome, and my personal favourite Evil Wickedness (I kid you not).

"All hail Lord Evil Wickedness, Ruler of Disease!"

Personally, I find such naming conventions a bit lazy, but what are you gonna do other than rename things in your own campaigns? At least it's a time-honoured tradition in Ravenloft, going all the way back to I6.
Who doesn't fondly remember the crypt inscriptions with such gems as Intrin Sik Valoo, Amerigo Standardski, Isolde Yunk or Stabor Indi Bhak?

Indeed. Well Dementlieu was given a sort of reworking as 'the Mad Lands' , but I'm not convinced that it sounds good in French. Of course, my French is pretty terrible. Like a cave-man! We should ask a fluent speaker, preferably a native.

IMC, Richemulot is the name of a region, but the formal name of alliance that governs the country is the Confederation of the Free Cities of the Musarde.

You might look at some of the rather strange place names in the real world. Here in America, we love to give things eccentric or colorful names.

[DocBeard]

I knew about the French name puns and, well, are they that much worse than real world descriptive stuff? I just should've put it together sooner, I've watched Metalocalypse.

[cure]

Is there any indication that his wife is of noble birth?

For Mordenheim the true aristocrary is probably of knowledge rather than of birth. It is possible that he conflates the two to a degree, but equally possible that he does not. So him being a baron and not caring much for the fact is certainly not excluded.

[ewancummins]

A title might come without land, depending on its origin and the system of titles in the country.

Yes, some noble titles come without lands, but in this specific case, the title of Baron usually means "a lord of a barony."

Things could work differently in Lamordia, of course. As you say, Ravenloft isn't Europe, and maybe in Lamordia there can be barons without baronies. It isn't the way things work with real-life landed nobility, though. We have the Earl of Marlboro or the Duchess of York, for instance, not the Duchess of Nothing Other Than Having the Title of Duchess. Nobility is almost defined by fief ownership.

Nobility does not necessarily require ownership of a 'fief.' Many European kingdoms and principalities have conferred noble titles of one sort or another with no grant of land. The so-called feudal system, as such, didn't really exist as anything cohesive across medieval or Early Modern Europe. What applies in Britain may not be true elsewhere, even when titles or forms of address seem somewhat similiar.

[ewancummins]

http://www.almanachdegotha.org/id190.html

The German nobility (German: Adel) was the elite hereditary ruling class or aristocratic class in the Holy Roman Empire and what is now Germany. In Germany, nobility and titles pertaining to it were bestowed on a person by higher sovereigns and then passed down through legitimate children of a nobleman. Alternatively, unlike men, women could legally become members of nobility by marrying a noble, although they could not pass it on. Nobility and titles (except for most reigning titles) were always inherited equally by all legitimate descendants of a nobleman.

I bolded the last part for emphasis.

Yes, they ended up with an awful lot of titled nobles.

[Agamemnon]

Nobility does not necessarily require ownership of a 'fief.' Many European kingdoms and principalities have conferred noble titles of one sort or another with no grant of land. The so-called feudal system, as such, didn't really exist as anything cohesive across medieval or Early Modern Europe. What applies in Britain may not be true elsewhere, even when titles or forms of address seem somewhat similiar.

No, nobility doesn't in itself, but landed nobility does, and baron is usually a landed title, not just in the UK, but in the rest of Europe as well. Today noble titles are little more than titles, as people don't have to tip their hats to the squire, and the nobles don't need to levy troops, but nobles still have estates. They may not be especially large, but at minimum they have a manor house to which their title is attached. A baron usually has a barony, which today may only be a house or a vinyard. This applies whether he lives in Sweden or the UK.
The only exception to this are the lower nobility titles that do not necessarily confer land upon their holders.

After the Feudal Tenure Act, a baron in the UK could be a baron without holding land, instead holding a baronial seat in Parliament, but that is rather specific for the UK. Barons in Sweden, Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands hold their titles through land, however small it may be.

EDIT:

I bolded the last part for emphasis.

Ah, that's interesting. So in Germany, a son of a baron is still a baron, even if he doesn't hold the barony, but his elder brother does? I see. Well, in that case the good doctor could definitely be called Baron, if his father was a baron, even if he does not himself possess the barony. Thanks for the information. I hadn't even considered the heirs to the title. In many countries, only the eldest offspring (and sometimes only the eldest male offspring) inherits the title. All the others are just "nobles."

You might look at some of the rather strange place names in the real world. Here in America, we love to give things eccentric or colorful names.

Like Tombstone and suchlike... yeah, I know. There are odd place-names in the real world, but I have never seen any to match Disease or Mad Place. The personal names are worse than the place-names, though. I can tolerate the odd eccentric name for a village, but naming a villain Evil Wickedness and his dominion Disease is beyond the pale in my book.

[ewancummins]

No, nobility doesn't in itself, but landed nobility does, and baron is usually a landed title, not just in the UK, but in the rest of Europe as well. Today noble titles are little more than titles, as people don't have to tip their hats to the squire, and the nobles don't need to levy troops, but nobles still have estates. They may not be especially large, but at minimum they have a manor house to which their title is attached. A baron usually has a barony, which today may only be a house or a vinyard. This applies whether he lives in Sweden, the UK or Spain.
The only exception to this are the lower nobility titles that do not necessarily confer land upon their holders.

After the Feudal Tenure Act, a baron in the UK could be a baron without holding land, instead holding a baronial seat in Parliament, but that is rather specific for the UK. Barons in Sweden, Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands hold their titles through land, however small it may be.

A baron in the old HRE might be the landless son of a baron. Your father bearing the title entited you to use it. The title simply did not mean the same thing as it did in some other countries. This is indeed quite different than the system used in several other countries. The HRE was weird, perhaps, but that is how it worked.

[ewancummins]

EDIT:


Ah, that's interesting. So in Germany, a son of a baron is still a baron, even if he doesn't hold the barony, but his elder brother does? I see. Well, in that case the good doctor could definitely be called Baron, if his father was a baron, even if he does not himself possess the barony. Thanks for the information. I hadn't even considered the heirs to the title. In many countries, only the eldest offspring (and sometimes only the eldest male offspring) inherits the title. All the others are just "nobles."

Right, sorry I just caught your edit. Yes, that's pretty much how it worked. I had thought of German/HRE titles because Lamordia seems rather Germannic.

Hope I wasn't being too pedantic!

Doctor Mordenheim might be a baron, just not the Baron, so to speak.

[Agamemnon]

Interesting. You know a lot about the Holy Roman Empire? I have only a passing knowledge of that hodge-podge confederation of feudal states, which was never quite an empire. A lacuna in my education, I see now.

And no worries, I like to learn new things, and my knowledge of the Holy Roman Empire is sorely lacking.

Lamordia is quite Germanic, yes, but I always think of Switzerland. Maybe because of Mary Shelley.

EDIT: Stupid typo!