Necropolis fix for the shroud....bargaining with Death....

[nothri]

Hi guys, long time no see.

Its been my ambition to write an article about Necropolis. Still working on it. I have my main "character voice" now in the form of Andre Duval (trust me, for this role he's the perfect choice). But I had a flash of brilliance when considering the ever thorny question of getting into Necropolis.

What if Death just lets you in?

Consider this: Death demonstrates a phenomenal amount of control over the negative energy in his realm. It sustains his existence, once upon of time he could hear the dreams of the living and especially Azalin (see Death Undaunted by John Mangrum), and he can suck the energy from or implant it in any creature, living or dead, he touches. So why can't he take it one simple step further, and 'order' the Shroud not to harm a given mortal? Death doesn't work for free, of course, but he IS crazy and DOES believe himself to be the embodiment of every death god ever spoken of. How many myths speak of poor souls entering the underworld to find some lost love? How many legends speak of a mortal winning his life back through a game of chess? How often has a mortal tricked, begged, or cheated their way out of going with the grim reaper? Death isn't prone to pity....but there's things the living can do that the dead can't. If a mortal wants into (or out of!) necropolis, maybe death can offer them free passage in return for a favor. Maybe he needs to aquire an artifact. Maybe he needs to kill his first born son. Maybe he just needs to play by the rules of the old legends death's insane mind tells him he plays by- offer a couple copper coins to Death the way the dead offer them to the ferryman to cross the underworld's river; answer the unanswerable riddle that forces the king of the dead to honor one request; so on and so forth. What do you guys think?

[cure]

Duval, the bardic lich, n'est-ce-pas? An excellent choice.

The minimalist approach to the matter is that Death supplies anyone he wishes to deal with the magic wheat (now what was it called?) that affords protection from negative energy.

Alternatively, are there any magic items or spells up to the task? Visiting Necropolis is comparible to visiting the Negative Energy plane. So was there any Planescape magic or magic items to faciliate such?

Ultimately, giving Death the power of suspending the effect of negative energy is a matter of taste. Is Death an insane elemental force ruling undead that, when out of his sight, pursue diverse and conflicting agendas? Or is Death a brilliant schemer with very long claws reaching far beyond Necropolis? To my ear, the second sounds too much like Azalin.

[nothri]

Cure, I don't see these two concepts being mutually exclusive. After all, Death's fingers ALREADY reach well beyond Necropolis in the form of the Unholy Order of the Grave. These literally act as his eyes and ears- he's privy to their thoughts any time he wishes to hear and can speak through them or call up his other abilities at will, regardless of distance. And while I understand the urge to minimize death's role (part of a desire to sweep Il Aluk and the whole grim harvest under a rug and pretend it never happened), I think Death has a lot more potential than how he's been depicted and the opportunities he's been given.

[cure]

Yes, the two are not mutually exclusive. Indeed in devising a crew for a Jolly Roger I made the ship's priest a wight who was a member of the Unholy Order of the Grave and was charged with marshalling for Death undead resources far beyond the borders of Necropolis.

Still, I see Death (and probably his most trusted minions) as being extraordinarily prejudiced against the living. Death is literally a negative energy elemental and it would be unnatural for him to make the shroud hospitable in the least to the living. Would the lord of the fire elementals create fire free zones in its palace or instead simply deem anyone who can't stand the heat to be unworthy of treating with it? But of course I do appreciate the desire to make Necropolis more playable by making it more accessible.

As to differentiation from Azalin, Death is chaotic and Azalin lawful. I am not sure how this should cash out, but it should make a significant difference.

As to Death's goal, ultimately it must be in stretching the shroud across the face of Darkon and the entire Core. But the machinations necessary to achieve this could include most anything.

[JinnTolser]

I for one love the idea, because the concept of entering the land of the dead and making a deal with Death pops up everywhere from Greek mythology (in the story of Orpheus) to Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey. So why not Ravenloft? Besides, Necropolis is pretty difficult to use in too many adventures, what with the whole dying as soon as you enter the Shroud thing. This would make it just a bit more accessible, while giving Death the possibility of doing a bit more with his time.

Due to his hatred for the living, I see Death as looking for any opportunity to deceive and screw those with whom he makes such bargains. He's not even likely to be a creature of his word, and keeping your end of the bargain with Death doesn't necessarily mean he will let you go free, or keep the Shroud from killing you. Unless you've got some way to outsmart him, or got something he really needs/wants for whatever he's trying to accomplish.

The idea could use some more definition (in exactly which circumstances would Death allow a mortal to enter the city without becoming undead, how likely he is to let them leave, and such), but I think it definitely has potential to be awesome.

[The Giamarga]

Alternatively, are there any magic items or spells up to the task? Visiting Necropolis is comparible to visiting the Negative Energy plane. So was there any Planescape magic or magic items to faciliate such?

This site details the features of the Negative Energy Plane from Planescape. And here is the description of the Negative Energy Plane in the 3E SRD. The Grand OGL wiki has this info on the NEP from Classic Play: Book of the Planes, by Mongoose Publishing.

Protection from Negative Energy is a 2E spell iirc that would help in the Shroud. In 3E we have Death Ward, but there's also a conversion of Protection from Negative Energy in Libris Mortis or the Planar Handbook iirc.

[nothri]

As I can recall from Planescape, the Negative Energy Plane is actually far kinder to a traveler than the shroud. Its been literally years since I had those books, but I seem to recall the drain happening on the scale of several hit points a round rather than "LOL INSTA DETH NO SAVE HAHA!" we get with the shroud.

I'm not as up on my 4.0 as I should be. Does the shadowfell have an equivalent to negative energy? I can always couche the Shroud in terms of 'an entropic aura hanging over the city of death and decay, a omnipresent force of life devouring darkness" or something, but it'd be good to know for sure.

[Mortavius]

Actually, in 3E the Shroud never caused insta-death. It drained levels per round, and when the victim had no more levels, he dies and reanimates.

The Negative Energy Plane was kinder IIRC in that it sapped HP per round, but the same end effect occured, possibly without the animation.

You could explain it by saying the Negative Energy Plane is an entire plane, while the Shroud is concentrated in a very small area.

And no, there is no direct peril related to visiting the Shadowfell in 4E, though there are areas of darkness (I forget what they're called) that improve undead within them and such.

[The Giamarga]

According to the SRD the NEP is Major negative-dominant. Some areas within the plane have only the minor negative-dominant trait, and these islands tend to be inhabited.

Negative-Dominant

Planes with this trait are vast, empty reaches that suck the life out of travelers who cross them. They tend to be lonely, haunted planes, drained of color and filled with winds bearing the soft moans of those who died within them. As with positive-dominant planes, negative-dominant planes can be either minor or major. On minor negative-dominant planes, living creatures take 1d6 points of damage per round. At 0 hit points or lower, they crumble into ash.

Major negative-dominant planes are even more severe. Each round, those within must make a DC 25 Fortitude save or gain a negative level. A creature whose negative levels equal its current levels or Hit Dice is slain, becoming a wraith. The death ward spell protects a traveler from the damage and energy drain of a negative-dominant plane.

Also:

In the more pleasant and balmy regions of the Negative Plane, a character is dealt 1d6 points of damage per round, every round. The deeper regions force travellers to make Fortitude saves (DC 25) every round or gain a negative level. Compared to such hostility, minor problems such as a lack of air or gravity are trivial.

from Classic Play: Book of the Planes, by Mongoose Publishing.

[Jack the Reaper]

Well, I never liked the idea of Necropolis as it is, so I made it something like the world of the dead in "The Farrest Shore" (From the Earthsea trilogy). It's something like the lines present here. Now that Ravenloft is (most probably) in the Shadowfell, we can treat Il Aluk and the surrounding area as a Darkland zone. It would be quite similar to my concept.

The alternative option is to make Il-Aluk something around the lines of a Resident Evil city. Everyone can walk in without dying automatically, but he'll have to face hundreds of thousands of zombies, plus all the greater undead that supervise them. Also there is the risk of getting infected and turning slowly into a zombie. That fits for adventures in the style of All Flesh Must be Eaten, which I love greatly. Not so gothic, but horrifying! (You won't believe me how many times I dreamed I am attacked or chased by zombies! Ask my wife! )

[nothri]

I've been doing a lot of research lately regarding the underworld and hell in preparation for the article. I began with Revelations, more or less as a direct result of Mangrum's Death Undaunted adventure (and the corresponding 'Horsemen' that act in Death's name as events proceed). From there I moved onto Dante's Inferno, Ishtar's descent into the underworld, and now Greek myths like Perephone and Orpheus. My feeling on the matter is that Ravenloft has other 'cities of the dead' if one wants to go on a Dawn of the Dead style romp through an overrun city of the infected (Keening comes to mind, or the village in Night of the Walking Dead). Necropolis occupies my attention due to the same impulses most folks have to ignore it entirely- its so BAD! And yet, I see so much potential here.

I think my most direct inspiration comes from Inferno- in particular the City of Dis. Granted, Inferno is not particularly scary...and frankly, some parts put me to sleep. But the overall concept, the circles, the progressively more severe 'damning' of those the further down one gets...that's of interest to me. For my part, my write up consists of Necropolis as the dead see it. Three 'circles' of the domain exist, each corresponding to the relative 'level' of negative energy (seriously, is there a named equivalent to this stuff in 4.0? Talking about 'negative energy' always made me feel like a hippy trying to get rid of his bad vibes....anyway, back on topic) from the doomsday device- the 'outer circle' consists of the outlying satellite towns and surrounding wilderness, the intermediate area consists of the city itself, and the most severe 'circle' (or Descent, as I'm thinking of calling them) is ground zero of the disaster- the Grim Fastness and the surrounding city blocks. It becomes harder to repel the affects of the shroud the deeper you go, and the undead lose themselves to Necropolis more quickly the closer they are to its heart. That's part of the concept I'm working under- the alignment shifts and odd salient powers we had under the old Reqiuem rules (along with the information on The Slain in gaz 2) I'm presuming as an affect of the domain- the shroud eats at the living and the dead, first devouring their life away, then sucking on the 'bones' until every trace of soul and humanity has left the undead creature. What might take years (viz Van Richten and his psychological profile on vampires, which we can extropolate to apply to many other forms of intelligent undead) can take months in Necropolis- the undead seem to grow stronger but their humanity slips away far faster. The final 'stage' is an entirely soulless, inhuman creature that either falls into an animalistic lifestyle beneath Il Aluk's streets or embraces Death's ambitions and becomes a part of the black Legion intended to march upon the living and reclaim everything for the Gray Realm (in theory, anyway. Azalin, I imagine, would have some things to say about any "marching" the undead do once they leave Necropolis). That's some of the rough ideas I currently have.

[Hell_Born]

The 4e equivalent of negative energy is "necrotic". Also, if you were curious, the terrain-based hazards of the Shadowfell are Darklands, Necromantic Seepage, and Umbral Taint. If you want the details on these, just say so and I'll explain.

[nothri]

I think for the purposes of my writing that's not necessary. Ravenloft occupies an unusual and nebulous place in the current edition's cosmology- what has been written so far seems to imply that "ravenloft" is now little more than unrelated islands of terror without any common history. This is uninteresting to me, chiefly because we've spent the last two editions "growing out of" the weekend in hell approach. While some characters do indeed seem to be in the shadowfell (Strahd, for instance) I prefer not to adopt the traits of that place wholesale until we get something more indepth and official (like a published campaign setting). Right now the approach I'll be taking is using terminology familiar to the setting itself and avoiding terms that hearken to larger cosmologies (like the negative energy plane or the shadowfell or the ethereal plane). I'll be using concepts and geography 'in setting', leaving the details of where Ravenloft's current position in the cosmos unexplored and unassumed.

[brilliantlight]

I think for the purposes of my writing that's not necessary. Ravenloft occupies an unusual and nebulous place in the current edition's cosmology- what has been written so far seems to imply that "ravenloft" is now little more than unrelated islands of terror without any common history. This is uninteresting to me, chiefly because we've spent the last two editions "growing out of" the weekend in hell approach. While some characters do indeed seem to be in the shadowfell (Strahd, for instance) I prefer not to adopt the traits of that place wholesale until we get something more indepth and official (like a published campaign setting). Right now the approach I'll be taking is using terminology familiar to the setting itself and avoiding terms that hearken to larger cosmologies (like the negative energy plane or the shadowfell or the ethereal plane). I'll be using concepts and geography 'in setting', leaving the details of where Ravenloft's current position in the cosmos unexplored and unassumed.

I agree, there is a lot of interesting things you can do with Ravenloft outside of a "weekend in Hell" The various dark lords scheme against each other and the PCs can wind up getting in the middle of that. You can't do that if they don't know about each other and there is no real way for them to send agents against them. You would have to get rid of Dhrakov which is a character I love to hate. There would be nobody for him to invade which makes his character pointless.

[Alanik Ray]

Since we're on the subject... is there any wizard/sorcerer spell similar to death ward or negative energy protection? Am I crazy or only clerics get to have this kind of spells in 3.5?