Luche Libre En Darkon - Viva El Santo!

[Lord Cyclohexane]

So, I was thinking about the Mexi-horror genre of movies, which throws Luche Libre wrestlers like Santo and Blue Demon against all kinds of horror staples like werewolves, vampires, Satanists, and the like...

And I thought how those movies had the same effect in Mexico as the Hammer and Universal films had here in the States...

And I realized how much the Hammer and Universal films helped to inspire Ravenloft...

And then I remembered the description of Darkon's artistic community, as per Gaz II, "Darkonian tastes seem oddly stunted, preferring spectacle to substance," where "[m]instrel troupes wander Darkon offering sophomoric depictions of distant events. These skits forego accuracy for the sake of dramatic or comedic effect [...] Freak shows and wandering carnivals also do well." As such, Darkon would accept the freakishness that is Luche Libre...

And Luche Libre was inspired by American Wrestling, and Darkon is close enough to Paridon that it could easily pick up the martial arts from there, mix that with horrible theatre, and come up with a true monster...

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Someone please stop me, before I honestly create Monk characters that wear Mexican wrestling masks or Longest Night Ceremonial Masks as they battle the horrors of the Land of Mists... Because, the more I think of it, the more and more it seems not only appropriate but also seems to be a good idea...

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Yikes, you're right: this has to be stopped! Some things are just too horrible for Ravenloft....


Hmmm... maybe the monks aren't really wearing masks? Check out this link, and you may find a way to channel this godawful idea into something more workable:

http://www.pandius.com/tl_bhut.html

These guys are from the Mystara setting, but they're very much suited to Ravenloft, and their family-groups have been known to assume the roles of traveling entertainment troupes. Not to be confused with the bhut from the Fiend Folio, BTW.

[Lord Cyclohexane]

Yikes, you're right: this has to be stopped! Some things are just too horrible for Ravenloft....

Hmmm... maybe the monks aren't really wearing masks? Check out this link, and you may find a way to channel this godawful idea into something more workable:

http://www.pandius.com/tl_bhut.html

Ah, but one problem there is, the Mexican wrestlers are the heroes. So you see, the idea is even more horrible than you originally thought. El Santo (the Saint) is the one who saves the rest of us from the incursions of the Vampire Women or dares the evils of the House of Wax to protect the rest of us. Hiding behind his mask to protect his secret identity, and perhaps to prevent his mind from being read by Lord Azalin...

And if things couldn't get more horrible... What's to prevent someone from making a Ravenloft Dominion book where Santo's spirit (he died in the 80's) has come to Ravenloft to save Van Richten?

(Maybe there *are* concepts that can horrify even those who love horror... I'd love to get ?????'s opinion on this, since I expect he's at least seen "Las Momias Del Guanajuato" / "The Mummies of Guanajuato")

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EDIT: Ravenloft Dominion, not Ravenloft Origins... Sorry about that. And I originally said it was Daisy who'd be familiar, but that's not right... I remember *someone* is from Venezuela but I can't recall who now...)

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Yeah, well, I knew the wrestlers were the heroes in the movies. (No, I haven't seen any, I just got that impression secondhand.) I just thought the link might help you divert this idea into a less Gothic-destroying path.


FWIW, the old-time horror flicks that inspired much of Ravenloft's imagery gave us cheese like Abbot & Costello Meet Frankenstein, too. And the setting is far more based on Gothic fiction than the movies, with a few obvious exceptions (like Timor = Aliens).

[Lord Cyclohexane]

Yeah, well, I knew the wrestlers were the heroes in the movies. (No, I haven't seen any, I just got that impression secondhand.) I just thought the link might help you divert this idea into a less Gothic-destroying path.

Ah, I thought you were just giving another character type to use in place of the Monk class. However, since the Bhuts were evil, I wasn't really sure how to take it.

But thinking about it, this is not necessarily Gothic-destroying, just requires some rejiggering. I noticed earlier that the Blue Demon's mask is VERY reminiscent of KISS's face painting (I believe for Starchild), which has always made me think of the Death Faces that African tribes would paint on themselves for certain rituals like for people representing Baron Samedhi and Papa Legba and others...

So, it could be that these Wrestlers wear their masks to match the faces of the dead, bringing vengeance for those who have already passed on so as to prevent those ones from returning from the Grey Realm themselves. The magics of these Wrestlers allows them to channel a bit of the spirits, but in return they are often stricken with terrible visions and nightmares due to their exposure to the realm of the dead. Great mental devotion is required to overcome this, as the dead leave their marks upon the Wrestlers, and many of those not prepared for the hardships will turn bitter and dead instead, often becoming undead themselves at life's end. If the Wrestler can learn to channel the energy of the spirits, they will gain power enough to harm even magical creatures with their bare hands, and it is rumored that the most powerful Wrestlers might even break their ties with the land as if they gained the freedom of the spirits themselves (as in, becoming an Outsider)

When the Wrestler goes on his mission, he goes not as himself but rather as the spirit he serves. As such, he dons his Mask, showing not his own face but rather representing the spirit's face. Only when the task is complete and the spirit is sated may the Wrestler remove his Mask and return to his normal life. Great dangers come to the one who would remove his Mask before his mission is complete; it is said that, until the spirit releases the Wrestler, that the Wrestler's face exists in the Grey Realm, worn by the spirit, and that should a Wrestler remove his Mask that only muscle and sinew would show underneath.

Anyway, like I said, I'm thinking far too much about this... But to stop, I should really just stop thinking about it. I ought to be going to bed anyway.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

If you're still interested in this idea after you've had some sleep, Lord C, you might consider giving your organization of masked monks some ties to Rokushima. Masks have spiritual significance in a number of Japanese traditions, IIRC, so it's a good alternative for a setting with no parallel to Hispanic culture. Alternately, the group could have some relationship to the Skurra and their Twisting-proof makeup.

However you want to use it, though, I strongly recommend that you NOT call these guys "Wrestlers" in front of your players. Using such a name is just begging to see your game-session collapse in a wild outburst of Hulk Hogan quotes and pantomimed moves from WWE RAW....

[Lord Cyclohexane]

If you're still interested in this idea after you've had some sleep, Lord C, you might consider giving your organization of masked monks some ties to Rokushima. Masks have spiritual significance in a number of Japanese traditions, IIRC, so it's a good alternative for a setting with no parallel to Hispanic culture.

Heh, as Mexican Wrestling / Luche Libre has no ties to Hispanic culture either, I'm not too concerned about that.

Thinking about it, though, considering that Hispanic culture comes from Spain, and Spain is a part of Europe, it is rather odd that it has no representation in a Land of Mists which is heavily based on European culture... I realize that Hispanic culture is a bit different than Spanish culture, having taken a number of elements from the Native Americans of South America, but Hispanic culture is still heavily Western in culture due to the influence of the Catholic Church and successful colonization from Europe. As such, you'd think it'd have some representation via Spanish or Portuguese culture...

Anyway, though, none of the cultures in Ravenloft are direct 1-to-1 translations of real-world cultures anyway, so I do not feel particularly bound to following any real-world traditions. I think creating my own tradition on it would be best.

That said, I do thank you very much for the suggestion of Japanese culture in your mention of Rokushima Taiyoo. The concept in Noh plays, which often has the spirit of a deceased mother getting revenge via her daughter (hence the Noh masks, pale white to represent the spirit's face), would be a great addition to this amalgamation I seek to create. Mixing Noh with tribal Voudan would work well.

In game, however, I plan to make it a subdivision of the Eternal Order, which keeps the Grey Realm at bay by appeasing the dead. What better way to appease the dead than by getting the revenge that keeps the dead from their rest? Of course, the risk is that, by hosting that dead spirit within yourself for a while, that you may wake the dead further rather than putting it to rest and end up becoming an undead yourself as the spirit chooses not to leave... Anyway, though, the Wrestlers would be working on individual spirits to keep them at bay, thus performing a different role than the Clerics, who'd be working to keep the masses out as a whole. So the Wrestlers may even be able to outlast the current disapproval for the Eternal Order as a whole, and perhaps the Wrestlers are something that predated the Eternal Order to begin with.

Anyway, for cultural usage, as Darkon has a yearly festival which seems rather like La Dia de los Muertos, in which the population dresses as the Dead by wearing masks, I figured it would be best to base this in Darkon due to its connection/fear of the Grey Realm. The festival I speak of is "Festival of the Dead", and it's from page 40 of the Kargatane's Book of Secrets. Anyway, the Wrestlers would wear masks similar to those worn by everyone at the Festival of the Dead, so to match with their already existing part of Darkonese culture. The Wrestlers would just wear these masks every day, or at least when "on duty" for a spirit.

I don't much care for using Rokushima Taiyoo as it's never actually been covered anywhere. The only mention of Rokushima trade-wise is in Gaz II, in the section on inns in Martira Bay, where one guy has a suit of armor from Rokushima Taiyoo. Other than that, there's no reference to anyone from the Core having ever been there or even knowing that it exists. As I'd like to use the Wrestlers in an upcoming game, and I plan to set it in the Core, I'd rather not have it based in a very very obscure domain.

Alternately, the group could have some relationship to the Skurra and their Twisting-proof makeup.

I think that may also be a very good idea. I need to re-read Carnival again anyway, and this gives me a good excuse to do that sooner rather than later. Due to the Skurra's link to Vistani culture (they're Vistani themselves, IIRC), however, I may not draw a direct tie, unless it's a secret shared from the Skurra to the early "Wrestlers."

However you want to use it, though, I strongly recommend that you NOT call these guys "Wrestlers" in front of your players. Using such a name is just begging to see your game-session collapse in a wild outburst of Hulk Hogan quotes and pantomimed moves from WWE RAW....

I agree, I will definitely not use the term "Wrestlers" for them. I just needed a placeholder at the moment and chose not to create a name just yet. I'd rather take the time to look through my list of Latin roots and try to create something, though Pugnicant is something that wants to roll straight off my brain (as they'd be wrestling the dead in service of the Eternal Order, this is a combination of "pugnacious" and "mendicant").

They will simply progress as Monks, however, as the martial arts nature of the Monk class is the best fit for all of the different holds, pins, moves, etc employed by a typical wrestler. Not to mention, the later benefits (like having their touch act as if it were a magical weapon) would allow the Pugnicant to successfully battle the Undead with his/her own hands, in keeping with Santo kicking the butts of the Vampire Women without the use of any weaponry.

EDITTED for clarity

[DocBeard]

They will simply progress as Monks, however, as the martial arts nature of the Monk class is the best fit for all of the different holds, pins, moves, etc employed by a typical wrestler. Not to mention, the later benefits (like having their touch act as if it were a magical weapon) would allow the Pugnicant to successfully battle the Undead with his/her own hands, in keeping with Santo kicking the butts of the Vampire Women without the use of any weaponry.

...this is awesome. A+++++++++

[Georg Kristianokov]

Does anyone emember the Angel episode involving the Luchadors and the Aztec demon?



Neotiamat, I think it's time for another ICBM....

[The Whistler]

Thinking about it, though, considering that Hispanic culture comes from Spain, and Spain is a part of Europe, it is rather odd that it has no representation in a Land of Mists which is heavily based on European culture...

On some fansite or other somewhere, I remember a really quality rewrite of Richemulot along the cultural lines of medieval Spain--it's not New World Hispanic culture, granted, but it still came across really well.

...And that's inspired me to Google it. Here it is:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dungeon ... index.html

[Lord Cyclohexane]

Does anyone emember the Angel episode involving the Luchadors and the Aztec demon?

I've only watched a handful of episodes, but Wikipedia has it under the episode "The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco." But, after reading the plot description, I don't think it's helpful for what I'm thinking. Thanks, though!

On some fansite or other somewhere, I remember a really quality rewrite of Richemulot along the cultural lines of medieval Spain--it's not New World Hispanic culture, granted, but it still came across really well.

...And that's inspired me to Google it. Here it is:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dungeon ... index.html

Wow, fantastic! I've only read a bit so far, but I agree, it does look like a very quality redo of Richemulot. Of course, to accept Ricoba I would have to sacrifice Richemulot, which I've always liked, so I dunno... But I think I'll use the Ricoba idea to make a better French Richemulot by mixing in a few ideas from the comic "Rex Mundi."

Er, that's a lie, really: I'll likely never get around to doing anything related to Richemulot, but I like the idea, anyway.

[DocBeard]

That's neat, though personally I add a Spanish flair to Valachan myself. It fits the whole 'Mixed Vaasi and other dudes' culture, and, really, we have enough Eastern European pastiches in Ravenloft allready. Richmeluant has a post-revolutionary France feel that I think is unique on its own, especially if you start amping up the tensions between Richmeluant and Dementileu.

[The Whistler]

That's neat, though personally I add a Spanish flair to Valachan myself. It fits the whole 'Mixed Vaasi and other dudes' culture, and, really, we have enough Eastern European pastiches in Ravenloft allready

Dude: yes. Play up an intermingling of pseudo-Moors and pseudo-Castilians, and you'll hit spot-on the whole "look at this whole new ethnic group that's now mixed into our culture and that we don't quite know what to do with" vibe that got played up around the Reconquista.

...Um. I just took a semester-long class on Don Quixote and Cervantes' Spain. Can you tell?

[Rotipher of the FoS]

That said, I do thank you very much for the suggestion of Japanese culture in your mention of Rokushima Taiyoo. The concept in Noh plays, which often has the spirit of a deceased mother getting revenge via her daughter (hence the Noh masks, pale white to represent the spirit's face), would be a great addition to this amalgamation I seek to create.

Perhaps the original founder of this group can be a Rokuman "claimed by Darkon"? That would dodge the issue of not having much background information on Rokushima, since the founder wouldn't remember anything factual about his or her homeland, just the monkish abilities and spiritual beliefs first learned there. The idea of using masks would be a blend of Eternal Order dogma and subconsciously-recalled Rokushiman practices.


(FWIW, I've often used this "Darkon-claimed" loophole if I want to bring in elements of a culture with no official presence in Ravenloft, myself. If I feel like having a Spanish- or Hispanic-flavored NPC in my game, they'll usually be an outlander from the Red Steel setting who's lost all memory of that realm, or the first-generation descendent of such outlanders. )

[The Giamarga]

5 words: Ghost Faced Killer prestige class.