A Ravenloft Video Game

[Georg Kristianokov]

A small question:

What would you want in a Ravenloft Video Game?

I mean:

What domains?

What NPC's?

What rules edition?

What perspective (first-person, third-person)?

Any games to inspire it?


Here's my dream RVG (Ravenloft video game):

Domains: The Core, maybe the others as add-ons.

NPC's: ALL OF THEM!

Edition: Third (it works better for VG's. Second edition is better for PnP)

Perspective: Either first-person, or over-the-shoulder.

Inspiring Games: Resident Evil 4 (this was THE Ravenloft VG for me. Think its to modern? Reload after every shot), Nocturne, XIII, Call of Cthulhu, Bioshock, The Witcher...to be updated...

[Georg Kristianokov]

Thank you for your oppinions! when they finally get here...

Also, the Farcry games are great inspiration for Markovia/Bjorn Horstman (I had them team-up once)

[JinnTolser]

As long as it doesn't turn out to be another Iron & Blood...

I think it would be cool if there were a video game covering one of the bigger events in the history of the Land of Mists. Say, the Grand Conjunction or the Grim Harvest stuff.

I'd definitely like to see several of the more notable darklords make an appearance, preferably not in direct combat roles though, as I wouldn't want it to turn into "hunt the darklord."

I agree that it's much easier if the game followed 3rd edition rules than 2nd, though I'd be fine with it not even mirroring the D&D rules at all, but being more of a Devil May Cry or God of War style system.

I'd definitely prefer over-the-shoulder, as I don't particularly care for first-person. Nor would I want the overhead-style camera like in Metal Gear Solid.

I'd like it to take atmospheric cues from Resident Evil, the first Devil May Cry, and games like that. But for gameplay, something more like DMC or God of War as opposed to Resident Evil.

[Georg Kristianokov]

The Devil May Cry games do seem to mirror a fiend's reality wrinkle, as it just gets more and more surreal. I do think over the shoulder is good for horror games, but first-person does make you feel more "attached" to your character. What about the Shadow Hearts games? (just get rid of the Final Fantasy crap) Maybe the first Ravenloft VG should involve the Grand Conjunction, and a sequel could be the Requiem, finally stopping with the Time of Unparralelled Darkness (sorry spelling) They should also incorporate customization into your characters, like gold inlays, pictures, scars, etc. Another thing--almost all of the vampires in the Elder Scrolls games are just people that hate sunlight and are strong. I hit them once with a steel saber and they die! I normally, just for posterity, put an arrow in the chest, but mythology should not be butchered!

And a Masque VG...There should be 3. 1700's, so you could have Joseph Curwen and the Headless Horseman. 1890's, so you could have the default setting. 1920's (just for the Tommy-guns ), so you could have afore-mentioned weapons and the Cthulhu Mythos. Oh wait...I forgot the Great War Project! We have to include that! that and Castle Wolfenstein!

[Isabella]

The old Quest for Glory 4 game for the PC was an amazing adventure game that could easily have been a Ravenloft module. I also hear that the Shadow Hearts series is also pretty good.

Anyone remember the really old Ravenloft games for the PC? Stone Prophet and the other one which was just the computer version of the original module? I only vaguely recall that I liked them, even with the weretigers, wemics, and sand trolls you could get in your party(!). Proof anything can work if it's done well, I guess.

[HuManBing]

For truly atmospheric first-person games, look no further than the Thief series. The System Shock series were also very good but were much more sci-fi, so probably not as suitable for Ravenloft.

As far as graphics and sound (especially sound) go, look at Clive Barker's Undying. That game was truly amazing for the atmosphere and creeping sense of dread.

However, one main problem I've found is that first-person games need to have projectile weaponry in them to be best done on today's technology. Computers just can't quite cope with swordplay yet, because the way to input handheld weapon attacks is so limited. Perhaps Nintendo's Wii system could change that (with its remote sensor feature).

Alien vs. Predator I and II are also truly excellent games featuring horror in an FPS environment. However, for those, the horror is fairly fast moving, and I think that's probably not quite as Ravenloftish as Thief and Undying, which are much more slow-paced.

Metroid Prime series also had some excellent sequences of scripted surprises, and the attention to detail was amazing.

So what I'd love to see in a Ravenloft game:

• First person. Over-the-shoulder is a cop out, emotionally speaking, because it puts you in an outside position from the person you're playing as. First person puts you right where they are and thus the threats against your character are seen in the same way as against yourself.
• Object manipulation as per Thief/System Shock. In order to interact with the world, you have to actually center something in your view and click on it. Merely walking over something to collect it is lazy, but is sadly the case for most FPSes, starting from Doom through to the Half-Life/Unreal tree of games.
• Dynamic lighting will be extremely important. The game should be primarily dark and shadowy, and the gamer should be required to selectively light areas. This can come in the means of limited number of flares (as was seen in Alien vs. Predator) and on occasion perhaps even the lighting of a level itself will be a major plot hook. (E.g. the player is in an abandoned warehouse where a covey of vampires is sleeping during the day. Even walking inside the warehouse's central areas will wake the vampires and subject you to repeated and deadly attacks that you can't even see. Collapse the main support pillars with explosives to cave in the roof, and then you'll be able to see them in the clear light of day.)
• Extremely limited combat means. Having lots of weapons is okay, but limit the amount of ammunition to add to the feeling of claustrophobia. The System Shock and Bioshock games did this extremely well. Besides it always struck me as weird that the hero in Doom could somehow carry 100 rockets for his rocket launcher.
• Complex melee weapons. Jedi Knight 2 managed this in a somewhat artificial way, but you could feasibly have something very sophisticated, like Zelda's combat system (where a combination of movement keys and attack keys allow for various different attack angles, depths, and speeds with the sword). Ideally, you'd just put it on the Nintendo Wii and have a fluid attack system with the remote controller standing in for your weapon.
• Make combat very risky. Most FPSes have combat as an unavoidable encounter or two that takes down your HP a little before you prevail to the next bit. In Ravenloft, every combat should come with at least the possibility of death or serious injury. Undying did this well, where the enemies' attacks would cause your screen to turn blood-red from the pain, and would "jolt" your vision so your aim would be thrown off a bit, as if you'd been hit in real life. This probably works better as a reward for melee attacks (which really do throw you around when they hit) rather than missile attacks (which generally have a lot of penetrating speed but rather little momentum).
• A choice (but also a balance) between classic weapons and firearms. Thief has a bow and arrow system that is fairly slow and requires careful aiming to hit. It was perfect. System Shock allows firearms but introduces a "weapon degradation" mechanic where you have to maintain your weapon from time to time or the firearm will eventually jam once the level reaches 1. In Ravenloft, firearms should be very rare, very cumbersome and slow to fire, and require maintenance or they'll jam. Something like a pistol for mid-range accuracy and quick rate of fire, with possible silver bullets. A rifle for long-range accuracy and slow rate of fire (and no special ammunition). Finally a shotgun or blunderbuss type weapon is only good for short-range battle and is slow to reload, but can take all sorts of different ammunition. (System Shock has shotgun slugs for big tough enemies and shotgun pellets for smaller fleshy ones - Bioshock allows some customization of inventive new ammunition. Undying allows phosphorus shotgun shells that throw a blast of napalm-like flames to set the enemy on fire.)
• A magic system. System Shock has Psionic powers, though to be honest that system was a little tacked-on and not nearly as powerful as regular firearms and melee force. Undying had a small number of spells but they integrated beautifully with the game and even could "stack" with a few weapon powers. (The Lightning spell, if cast on your crossbow, would electrify the bolt and call down a thunder strike on anything you shoot with that one single shot.) I'd prefer quality over quantity with this: DnD has loads of spells but only a select few should be introduced, and then only where they contribute to game balance. For obvious reasons, certain ones that get short shrift in tabletop gaming (e.g. Comprehend Languages, Tongues) could be absolutely essential in a computer game, provided the levels were scripted well.
• A flexible morals-and-consequences choice system. This is readily apparent in System Shock and Thief, even if it doesn't affect gameplay. In System Shock, you're a human with cybernetic implants, caught in a war between a computer A.I. vs. a virulent organic mutagen. Both sides try to tempt you with rewards and cajole you with threats. In Thief, the struggle is between the relentless unyielding regime of urbanization and industrial endeavor, versus the untamed abandon of the malevolent wilderness. At least, a Ravenloft game should incorporate a moral backstory, even if it doesn't affect the gameplay. Alternatively, consider Bioshock or Deus Ex, where the choices you make really do have an effect on gameplay and future options. It doesn't have to be as clear as "good vs. evil". It could simply be "given what you know, which interests do you follow... bearing in mind that those you harm will have something to say about it later?"

As a practical matter, the ideal starting Ravenloft adventure for a computer game would be something very contained and limited. Perhaps an escape from Shadowborn Manor in Avonleigh. Or an "eliminate the lair boss" type of deal in an underground cavern. Something to demonstrate the game's new scope for the mechanics discussed above. Leave a surprise or cliffhanger ending for expansion purposes.

If that's successful, then the game can follow up with a broader range of activities. Perhaps a "caught-in-the-middle" type of campaign could work. One example of this could be a Darkon/Falkovnia/Lamordia plotline:

On the border between these three unfriendly nations is a collection of hillside villages. Your character starts off as a 0th-level commoner, faced with a few mundane tasks to acquaint the player with the control system. (Your uncle shot a few grouse in the woods - go collect them and bring them back, etc.) Then the interweaving plotlines turn up, at times mutually exclusive.

Lamordia has a few nervous bordermen assembling with their untested firearms, worried that Falkovnia's troop movements may be a threat. Falkovnia, in contrast, has started "recruiting" footmen from the hillside, promising preferential treatment to enlistees over those who are later conscipted. Meanwhile, a mysterious foreign woman from Darkon's Kargat police is in the area and is looking for locals whom she can entrust with various reporting and espionage tasks.

The game thus can place the gamer as a firearms soldier (Lamordia), a melee and fantasy missile arms soldier (Falkovnia), or a fledgling wizard (Darkon). The Falkovnian campaign is to secure a valuable seam of ores in the hillside, and the campaign progresses from driving off the Lamordian border watch to a sudden shift when hordes of undead pour out of Darkon to unseat them.

The Lamordian campaign is much more focused on distance sniping, use of mechanical means, and in the end a "gunpowder plot" where the Falkovnian fort under construction is dramatically destroyed. Certain features like primitive artillery (trebuchets flinging gunpowder payloads) could be incorporated, with the character playing a look-out role and rangefinder role. Lamordia's final goal is to assassinate the Falkovnian Falkfuhrer in charge of this assault force, to decapitate the regional army's ability to wage war and to buy a few years' peace.

The Darkonian campaign would be a much more go-it-alone type of campaign, with combat as a last-ditch measure. The player is a spellcaster whose powers are subtle and not well suited to straight-out combat, with misdirection and stealth much better suited. Darkon's campaign involves the Kargat wizard in small acts of sabotage here and there, with various secondary targets that all add up through the levels and have a profound effect in later missions. Darkon's campaign essentially strives to maintain a balance of power between Lamordia and Falkovnia, so that at the very end of the campaign, the two military forces are evenly matched when the final battle occurs. This ensures the largest number of corpses on the battlefield, which serves the dark purpose of the Kargat operative and her shadowy liege in Avernus.

The player progresses through chapters, at each point with some limited ability to switch sides if he wants to (and this may become quite compelling, especially if they sided with the relatively amoral Darkon or Falkovnian sides to begin with). In some campaigns, past actions - especially the completion of secondary mission goals - will come to have a serious effect on later missions.

Lamordian missions could have a primary goal of sabotaging the mine entrances with gunpowder, halting the Falkovnian extraction of ore. But if the player is canny enough to rig similar traps on the oxcarts and wagons, that will result in further logistical problems for the Falkovnian side, leading perhaps to reduced numbers of Falkovnian soldiers, or perhaps Falkovnian soldiers wearing inferior armor or with fewer hit points (because of inadequate food supplies).

Each side (except perhaps the Lamordians) could also have a "betrayal plot" involved somehow. These would be deeply hidden and may not even be encountered by the player on the first playthrough. But a player who follows up every clue or does a lot of exploration, or even is in the right place at the right time, may open up secret levels of very brief encounters that serve to question their allegiance to that side.

A sample such betrayal plot for the Darkonians might be:

1. In the main mission, the Darkonian's goal is to kill a certain Darkonian soldier who defected to Falkovnia. The Darkonian wizard can do this through stealth and then escape back. However, if he decides to capture the Darkonian soldier and bring him back to base, a new mini area is opened up in the Kargat officer's tent later on, showing interrogation confessions, signed warrants of execution, and even such things as dissection results and "redistributions" relating to the soldier's family and children.

2. Later on in the main mission, the Darkonian's goal is to deliver a bribe to some Lamordian miners who can attest to the quality of the Falkovnian ore. Once the player delivers the miners to a forest clearing not far from the Kargat's tent, the Kargat agent sends the player out on another mission. If the agent completes the mission, there is an official "exit" far from the Kargat's tent. But if the agent returns to the Kargat's tent, he finds the miners all there, sleeping in cots, except for one. If the agent returns to the forest clearing, he finds some bloody clothes and empty boots which once belonged to the missing miner. The Kargat herself is nowhere to be found.

3. The final betrayal mission occurs after the Lamordians bring in a priest to aid their soldiers in healing. The Kargat operative is under orders to capture the priest and bring him back to Avernus. The player is given a map of a mountain church and the Kargat officer will wait in ambush near the altar. The player is ordered to attack the priest's convoy to lure them into the altar chamber, where the Kargat will strike and capture the priest.

The player can choose instead to alert the priest about the Kargat officer's plans. The priest can either flee or join the player in fighting the Kargat officer. One important note is that the Kargat officer's map is missing a secret passage that leads to a balcony overlooking the altar. The priest gives clues about it and the player can then use the secret passage to get an advantage against the Kargat officer.

The battle against the Kargat officer should be not be primarily based on "lower her hit points and kill her". That's just boring. A far more interesting feature would be to have her turn invisible (as all Asian vampires can) and then attack the player and any allies while invisible. Tactics for defeating her include:

1. Casting see invisible, which shows her movements even if it doesn't allow the allies to hit her.
2. Keeping everybody in a group so if she attacks one, they can all come to the rescue. (She has no ranged weapons.)
3. When invisible, she climbs on the ceiling using wall banners and drapes. If the player is quick-witted, he can cut down the banners and drapes, preventing her from climbing on them.
4. If the player is REALLY quick-witted, he can wait till the Kargat officer is on the floor and then cut the drapes to collapse on top of her. That immediately gives away her location, invisible or not.
5. The Kargat vampire tries her best to kill the priest and then kill the player but if the battle goes very badly for her, she will be willing to jump out through a window and flee. She will return in the final level to terrorize the player again and make his game a lot more difficult.
6. If the vampire is defeated in physical combat, and the priest is around, he will take custody of the body and lay her to rest. She will not return.
7. If the vampire is defeated but the priest is not around, she will return and give the PC the same difficulty as in 5. above, although the priest may make an appearance to counteract her.

Once the Kargat is killed or driven away, the player is placed back at the central mission level, except that the Kargat's tent is empty and cannot be selected. Going to the Falkovnians or the Lamordians to change allegiances is his only hope now.

That's a very quick-and-dirty summary of the sort of game I think Ravenloft would lend itself well to. Moral grey areas, flexibility of allegiance, and a genuine "repercussions of your actions" all are important here.

[HuManBing]

Another thought occurred to me:

Playing a game as Ratik Ubel would be awesome. Even if he gets killed, he comes back to continue. This could also bring in some macabre humor, as in Blood and Blood II. Or possibly Planescape: Torment, which was very good too.

As Ratik Ubel you'd get a few levels in Il Aluk, then across Darkon as you hunt your killer. At one point he gets to Dementlieu as well, and that could open up new skills to him, e.g. firearms.

Imagine if somebody like the Kargat was responsible for his death. Killing the officer directly would be sufficient, but it would hardly be poetic. The endgame might best be played out by planting some implicating evidence on the Kargat officer's operations, so that a rival Kargat leader eventually takes him out for you.

[Georg Kristianokov]

Sounds interesting...I go to school with some who's mother is with a software company. They made the worst game for the Wii...

About Ratik Ubel, who killed him, in the canon? Was it even revealed?

[HuManBing]

No, it was never revealed.

[Gnarfflinger]

I would think that First person like in Morrowind or an over the shoulder perspective like Manhunt or Max Payne. Either way, have the horrific sights right in your face.

Blow a fear check? The screen seems to shake to represent your aim going off kilter. Horror check? I'm sure something can be done to you there too...

I'd like to see it played in chapters, each chapter taking place in a different domain, with a grander storyline along the way, but with little "quests" along the way to either help you or distract you...

You have to believe that you could die with every encounter.

Something specific I'd like to see is "transition" chapters, featuring the Nightmare Lands as a way to get you from place to place at various times...

[JinnTolser]

Another thought occurred to me:

Playing a game as Ratik Ubel would be awesome. Even if he gets killed, he comes back to continue. This could also bring in some macabre humor, as in Blood and Blood II. Or possibly Planescape: Torment, which was very good too.

As Ratik Ubel you'd get a few levels in Il Aluk, then across Darkon as you hunt your killer. At one point he gets to Dementlieu as well, and that could open up new skills to him, e.g. firearms.

Imagine if somebody like the Kargat was responsible for his death. Killing the officer directly would be sufficient, but it would hardly be poetic. The endgame might best be played out by planting some implicating evidence on the Kargat officer's operations, so that a rival Kargat leader eventually takes him out for you.

That is a spectacular idea for a game. My only concern about it is what it would do to Ratik Ubel's character. Once he knows who killed him and takes his revenge, he has no further purpose. And I can't see any way the game could not reveal his killer without leaving players feeling more cheated than the ending of Halo 2.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Actually, IIRC, revenants disintegrate once they've avenged themselves. Having Ratik find and eliminate his killer means he's not just useless, he's out of the campaign for good.

[HuManBing]

What's the problem? Isn't that what Ratik himself wants?

True, it wouldn't fit the usual video game stereotype of the homecoming hero, but it would be much closer to the Planescape Torment idea of the final reward being very personal and gratifying. Planescape's reward was finally finding out who you are and what your purpose was. Ravenloft's reward could be finally getting a hard-earned rest.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

True, it's an entirely appropriate ending for a Ravenloft storyline. Also rather "film noir", which ought to work well with Ratik's style of bitterness and intrigue. I just wanted to point out that using such a scenario would effectively remove a rather interesting NPC from the game-setting, if we consider a video game a part of "canon".

Of course, one could always use another dread revenant, not Ubel. Given that he's such an obscure NPC (one tiny write-up in the Black Box and a chunk of VRGttWD), Ratik doesn't possess much "star power" with which to hype a videogame; many DMs would probably rather he stick around as a plot device. It's not like he were Van Richten, or some other name that's inextricably linked to Ravenloft in gamers' minds.

But a brand-new revenant NPC would have loads of possibilities: we could actually witness his or her death and revival -- seeing a final, fleeting glimpse of one's attacker; digging one's way out of a shallow grave; catching a shocking first look at one's ghastly features in a mirror -- and could discover various consequences of being undead during subsequent encounters and battles. The character could even deteriorate from a fresh corpse to a near-mummified state, over the course of the game, making it more and more difficult to pass for one of the living. That's not something we could do with Ubel (who's been a revenant for decades, and whose condition has no more surprises or decompositional changes to offer), unless the game drags on for years and years of time.

[JinnTolser]

I just wanted to point out that using such a scenario would effectively remove a rather interesting NPC from the game-setting, if we consider a video game a part of "canon".

That's my concern as well.

But a brand-new revenant NPC would have loads of possibilities: we could actually witness his or her death and revival -- seeing a final, fleeting glimpse of one's attacker; digging one's way out of a shallow grave; catching a shocking first look at one's ghastly features in a mirror -- and could discover various consequences of being undead during subsequent encounters and battles. The character could even deteriorate from a fresh corpse to a near-mummified state, over the course of the game, making it more and more difficult to pass for one of the living. That's not something we could do with Ubel (who's been a revenant for decades, and whose condition has no more surprises or decompositional changes to offer), unless the game drags on for years and years of time.

OTOH, if Ratik were used, there's nothing to say the game has to be set in the present time. The game could start decades earlier, have all those same revealing moments, and follow exactly what you've laid out. It would just need to have a decades-spanning story, maybe chapters seperated by years, in order to mesh with canon.