Ancient Dead and Positive Energy

[Ail]

Hi all,

I think I remember from VR's 2nd Ed books that Ancient Dead were rather unique undeads in that they were healed, not harm, by positive energy. Do you know if this is still valid in 3E? I couldn't find that in the Monster Manual or the RCS, thought I have, admittedly, only skimmed through them, recently.

Alex

[Snake]

Hi all,

I think I remember from VR's 2nd Ed books that Ancient Dead were rather unique undeads in that they were healed, not harm, by positive energy. Do you know if this is still valid in 3E? I couldn't find that in the Monster Manual or the RCS, thought I have, admittedly, only skimmed through them, recently.

Alex

I don't recall that, but you can always make it a salient ability.

[Joël of the FoS]

FYI, in the otherwise dreadful Slayers Guide to the Undead, Gygax said the connection with positive energy was a typo way back in 1st ed.

So you can safely put negative energy instead, as it makes more sense.

Joël

[Nathan of the FoS]

I always preferred the Positive Material Plane connection for mummies, myself...the eldritch connection to positive energy gives the mummy unnatural vitality, perhaps as a result of the burial ceremony creating the mummy in the first place.

YMMV, of course, especially since "turning undead" is now linked explicitly to "channeling positive energy", which is an innovation I don't much like either.

[Catman Jim]

The Positive Energy thing always came off like an old Thundercats episode for me, as in "Spirits of Ancient Evil, transform this decayed body into 'Mumm-Ra', the Everliving"! OK I guess if you want an undead clerical equivalent to a lich, which is what a lot of VRGtAD is about.

[Nathan of the FoS]

The Positive Energy thing always came off like an old Thundercats episode for me, as in "Spirits of Ancient Evil, transform this decayed body into 'Mumm-Ra', the Everliving"!

Yes! Yes, exactly!

...

...

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[Catman Jim]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

No, only bad if your Ancient Dead also has a trio of incompetant werebeast servants (jackal-man, reptile-man, & vulture-man).

[Stygian Inquirer]

Hi all,

I think I remember from VR's 2nd Ed books that Ancient Dead were rather unique undeads in that they were healed, not harm, by positive energy. Do you know if this is still valid in 3E? I couldn't find that in the Monster Manual or the RCS, thought I have, admittedly, only skimmed through them, recently.

Alex

I made a post about this almost 2 years ago and Mangrum told me to treat the Ancient Dead as Deathless (from Eberron and the Book of Exalted Deeds) thus making them positive energy based. For the link to the full thread, click here.

[Jester of the FoS]

This is one of the big changes with 2E to 3E. A typo correction invalidating an entire VanRichten Guide.
But we can assume he was partially incorrect. Ancient dead can now be divided into mummies (negative) and deathless (positive).

[Rotipher of the FoS]

A typo correction invalidating an entire VanRichten Guide.

Not really. In 2E, the notion that "positive energy" was involved in holy water damage or Turn Undead hadn't actually been introduced, so the Ancient Dead book has both of these things working just fine against mummies. There's only about three paragraphs in VRGttAD where he actually talks about the contrast between mummies' positive energy and other undeads' negative energy; on the (very) few other occasions in which "positive energy" is referred to, it's easily interchangable with "negative energy".

[Ail]

Except for the implication that Cure xxx Wounds spells do heal a mummy instead of harming her, like all other undead. Or not?

Alex

[heru]

I've always liked the idea that mummies are animated by positive energy. In my view (and campaigns) mummies are not quite "undead," (beings animated by negative energy) but instead bodies ritually prepared to receive the original "life" (i.e. positive energy) that they once had. In fact, I've explained mummy rot as a disease caused by too much positive energy (any experienced Planescape player or DM could tell you that too much Positive Energy will make you explode if you go to the plane unprepared). Thus, in my book, mummies are positively based. Besides, players who come expecting some negatively-powered undead are in for a surprise.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Except for the implication that Cure xxx Wounds spells do heal a mummy instead of harming her, like all other undead. Or not?

Alex

In 2E, curative spells just plain didn't work on the undead -- no healing, no damage -- so Van Richten never actually addressed the topic.