Not to antagonize anyone, but I really don't think comparing Monopoly with the more complex and flexible D&D is a valid analogy.LordGodefroi wrote:Yes. . . and this is the first substantive change of the rules in 71 years while still leaving the original unchanged and still supported by Parker Brothers. So, "You don't see a new edition of the Monopoly rules every five years." is still true.midnightcat wrote:You do see new boards , and Parker bros have intoduced a new faster Monopoly along with the old one.LordGodefroi wrote: How is that not a "continual upgrade" scheme when first edition worked well enough and was popular for more than a decade ? You don't see a new edition of the Monopoly rules every five years.
Yep, 4th Edition is coming out....
"No, but evil is still being — Is having reason — Being reasonable! Mousie understands? Is always being reason. Is punishing world for not being... Like in head. Is always reason. World should be different, is reason."
Well, regarding 1.5 and 2.5, I'd like to remind people that the DMG, the PHB and the MM were revised at midpoint of 2nd Ed's life. Specifficaly, 2nd Ed dates from 1989, but the black books, which by the way were the first I held in my hands, are from 1995.
I even remember reading Steve Winter's Foreword in the PHB at that time and puzzling at those big red letters saying
'This is not AD&D 3rd Edition'.
Being new to the game, I wondered what he meant by that, and why he had to write it there. I even had no idea I was reading the 2nd Ed of something. I know it now.
So you see, they made a revision of Core Rules 6 years into the game, and changed edition 5 years later. As someone else said, with today's increased rhythm, I'm not surprised they do it with 3 or 4 years to get to 3.5 and 8 years as whole to change from 3E to 4E.
In fact, from some tidbits I've read from the developers, I'm even very enthusiasmed with some ideas: Race levels, wizards at 80% power after they've cast all memorized spells, different strengths and weaknesses of different weapons, with fighters dedicating themselves more to a specific kind of those. Although there's still nothing objective in these rules, these things they have dropped on us make me anticipate good things, and so I'm actually looking forward to see what they've come up with.
I might even buy the core rules, though I'm still very deep in my 3.5 campaign and I'm not keen to end it too soon.
Who knows.
Alex
I even remember reading Steve Winter's Foreword in the PHB at that time and puzzling at those big red letters saying
'This is not AD&D 3rd Edition'.
Being new to the game, I wondered what he meant by that, and why he had to write it there. I even had no idea I was reading the 2nd Ed of something. I know it now.
So you see, they made a revision of Core Rules 6 years into the game, and changed edition 5 years later. As someone else said, with today's increased rhythm, I'm not surprised they do it with 3 or 4 years to get to 3.5 and 8 years as whole to change from 3E to 4E.
In fact, from some tidbits I've read from the developers, I'm even very enthusiasmed with some ideas: Race levels, wizards at 80% power after they've cast all memorized spells, different strengths and weaknesses of different weapons, with fighters dedicating themselves more to a specific kind of those. Although there's still nothing objective in these rules, these things they have dropped on us make me anticipate good things, and so I'm actually looking forward to see what they've come up with.
I might even buy the core rules, though I'm still very deep in my 3.5 campaign and I'm not keen to end it too soon.
Who knows.
Alex
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Yeah, that was Monte Cook. But you're misquoting him. He said that 3.5 was always planned, but more as a way for them to work bugs out of the system. What wasn't planned was the amount of revisions needed.LordGodefroi wrote:And one member of the original 3.0 core rules team also said 3.5 was also released to generate cash for WOTC during a slump. (I believe it was Monte Cook who said so on his web site. But, don't quote me on that as I couldn't produce the source.)
Think of 3rd Ed being a Beta test for 3.5. At least, that's the way I see it.
The problem with not using the UA and PO books was, I think a lot of people found, that if you just used the PHB you (mechanically) made the EXACT same human fighter, the EXACT same elven wizard or the EXACT same halfling thief every time. The rules where very restricitive. Come 3.5, and you hear complaints of the there's too much choice...AD&D 1.5 and AD&D 2.5 ? Perhaps. But one thing sets those apart from true new editions: Both original Unearthed Arcana and Player's Option books were optional. No one was expected to adopt the changes presented by those books and material published after those books didn't require those books. Nothing was made obsolete with the publication of Unearthed Arcana and Player's Option books and support of the original 1.0 and 2.0 core rules sets continued.
A brief history of D&D's publication:One core rules set, without x.5 revisions, every eight to ten years is enough for me. I'm not going to shell out $125 for new core rule books every three to five years just because its "the latest thing" or a corporation needs to improve its shareholder equity. (The Microsoft business model is the worst thing to ever happen to the American public.)
1974 Original Dungeons & Dragons
1977 Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 1st Edition, Dungeons & Dragons 2nd version, Basic Set (Blue Box) [Two years since original release, now 3 seperate games)
1978 Players Handbook (June)
1979 Dungeon Master Guide (August) - Core books complete
1981 Dungeons & Dragons 3rd version, Basic Set (Purple Box), Expert Set (Light Blue Box) (levels 4 - 14) [Four years since last revision]
1985 Unearthed Arcana (Rules Expansion) Immortals Set (levels 36+)
1989 Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition, Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, Monstrous Compendium (replaces Monster Manual) [12 years since last revision of AD&D]
1991 Dungeons & Dragons 5th version [Six years since last revision, 5th revision in 17 years]
1993 Monstrous Manual replaces Monstrous Compendium
1996 Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition revised, Player's Handbook, Dungeon Masters Guide [Seven years since last revision]
2000 Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition (Four years since last revision)
2003 Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition revised (3.5), Errata available to allow continued use of older 3rd edition books [Three years since last edition. Emphasis mine on the free release of Errata]
2008 Dungeons & Dragons 4th edition (announced) [Five years since last revision]
Look at the years, a revision every 3-5 years is expected with D&D, it's there, in its history.
I don't think they are. Also, they're running out of stuff to print for an older edition, so they have to think for the future.Like I said before, I'm not against a new edition when the time is right for it. I am against a new edition when a company's doing it primarily to improve their bottom line.
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Wasn't it 1973? I have a PDF of a first version, dated 1973 IIRC.Drinnik Shoehorn wrote: 1974 Original Dungeons & Dragons
"A full set of (game) rules is so massively complicated that the only time they were all bound together in a single volume, they underwent gravitational collapse and became a black hole" (Adams)
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I used Wiki to get the dates, plus 30 Years of Adventure came out in 2004, so I'm guessing it was 1974. It might have been written in 1973, though...Joël of the FoS wrote:Wasn't it 1973? I have a PDF of a first version, dated 1973 IIRC.Drinnik Shoehorn wrote: 1974 Original Dungeons & Dragons
"Blood once flowed, a choice was made
Travel by night the smallest one bade" The Ballad of the Taverners.
The Galen Saga: 2000-2005
Travel by night the smallest one bade" The Ballad of the Taverners.
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Perhaps you mean the prepublication OD&D Woodgrain? It´s from 73. 1st printing Woody is from 74.
Here´s a nice nice site about the history of D&D.
Here´s a nice nice site about the history of D&D.
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I think you misintepret a couple of things.Ail wrote: In fact, from some tidbits I've read from the developers, I'm even very enthusiasmed with some ideas: Race levels, wizards at 80% power after they've cast all memorized spells
IMO there won't be race class levels, but benefits that increase with character level.
For example in 3rd edition an elf gets a +2 to spot/listen/search. I believe it would be more like:
- An elf gets a +1 to spot/listen/search +1 for every 4 levels.
- At 4th character level an elf gains XX ability
- At 8th level the XX ability improves to XXX
About wizards, the quote said after a wizard has cast all his per day spells. Not all memorized spells.
IMO that means that a wizard would have spells that are usuable per turn (ten minutes) or per minute. And that would be 80% of his spells
For example I believe an 8th level wizard would be able to cast 2 4th level spells per day and ... say 3 1st level spells per 10 minutes.
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For all printing and collection trivia consult the acaeum at www.acaeum.com.Pam wrote:When was the basic red box? I'm sure that it was out in 1980/81? That's the one my brother bought, and got us addicted on...
Basic Rules: http://acaeum.com/ddindexes/setpages/basic.html
D&D Basic Rulebook (red, 8th - 11th prints)
Set 1: D&D Basic Rules (red, 12th-13th prints)
8th printing is 1981, while 12th is 1983
Hi Alhoon, that's not really important because I haven't even tried to guess what they mean by that. But all said, those ideas still interest me. There's potential in there.alhoon wrote:I think you misintepret a couple of things.Ail wrote: In fact, from some tidbits I've read from the developers, I'm even very enthusiasmed with some ideas: Race levels, wizards at 80% power after they've cast all memorized spells
Alex
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OK, interesting podcast for those wanting to know more about 4e.
And for us, the question "Will Ravenloft (or other worlds) return? " was answered quickly with "We don’t have specific plans that I can reveal at this time, which sucks as an answer, I realize. Next!"
The door isn't closed, and isn't opened.
Joël
And for us, the question "Will Ravenloft (or other worlds) return? " was answered quickly with "We don’t have specific plans that I can reveal at this time, which sucks as an answer, I realize. Next!"
The door isn't closed, and isn't opened.
Joël
"A full set of (game) rules is so massively complicated that the only time they were all bound together in a single volume, they underwent gravitational collapse and became a black hole" (Adams)