I've picked up about a half a dozen Ravenloft 3.0 books and I'm looking at picking up a few more in the near term. I'm specifically looking at the following books:
Gazetteer #3
Gazetteer #4
Van Richten's Arsenal
Denizens of Dread
Legacy of Blood
Dark Tales and Disturbing Legends
I'm more interested in fluff then crunch. Taking that into account in what order would you buy the above books?
Thanks, Kane
Suggested purchase order?
-
Gonzoron of the FoS
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 7558
- Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 8:02 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location: New Jersey
- Contact:
Well, I would definitely put Denizens of Dread last on your list. It's 99% crunch (and some poor crunch at that), and very little fluff.
The other 5 are all fine books, all full of good fluff and reasonable crunch. I find it hard to pick an order for them. VRA is probably the crunchiest of them, but is soooo good. Maybe Dark Tales would be last, since a few of the stories/adventures miss the mark a little bit, while nearly everything in the other 4 books is high quality. (The Mordent chapter of Gaz III is a little off, but not bad). Also, Dark Tales is pretty hard to get a hold of anyway.
It pretty much depends what your looking for. Are you more interested in the lands of Mordent, Dementlieu, and Richmulot (Gaz III), Invidia, Borca, Verbek, Valachan, and Sithicus (Gaz IV), the families of several darklords (LotB), mini-adventures (Dark Tales), or Monster Hunting tools, strategy, and techniques (feats, PrC's, items, spells, etc) and some NPC's (VRA).
The other 5 are all fine books, all full of good fluff and reasonable crunch. I find it hard to pick an order for them. VRA is probably the crunchiest of them, but is soooo good. Maybe Dark Tales would be last, since a few of the stories/adventures miss the mark a little bit, while nearly everything in the other 4 books is high quality. (The Mordent chapter of Gaz III is a little off, but not bad). Also, Dark Tales is pretty hard to get a hold of anyway.
It pretty much depends what your looking for. Are you more interested in the lands of Mordent, Dementlieu, and Richmulot (Gaz III), Invidia, Borca, Verbek, Valachan, and Sithicus (Gaz IV), the families of several darklords (LotB), mini-adventures (Dark Tales), or Monster Hunting tools, strategy, and techniques (feats, PrC's, items, spells, etc) and some NPC's (VRA).
"We're realistic heroes. We're not here to save the world, just nudge the world into a better place."
-
Jack of Tears
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 306
- Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:25 pm
Since I've not followed the campaign meta-plot, and as such the gaz's aren't really that useful for me, I would recommend Legacy of Blood - it outlines the families and useful npcs for the dark lords, or if you want players to become peripherally involved with the major figures without involving them directly.
Beyond that my own biases get in the way. I only read a little of Dark Tales, but liked what I read, so that might be well worth picking up ... if you are in a need of story/adventure ideas ... if not, then probably not so much.
While Denizens of Dread is mostly all crunch, I might still recommend it, if you don't own any of the older ravenloft monster compendiums. I find that monster entries are a font of adventure material just waiting to be harnessed ... sure, not all the descriptions give you a great deal to work with, but even a couple paragraphs can generate much larger ideas; a good excercise is to open a monster book to any single page, read the entry and try to design an entire adventure - even if only a single night scenario - out of it. With a little practice it will come to you fairly quickly, by extension making that one monster book a source of dozens upon dozens of adventures - better still, if each adventure prominately features a different monsterouse threat, you don't have to worry about pcs saying "oh great, another vampire/zombie infestation". (although, utilizing ideas from "VanRichten's Guide to the Walking Dead" I was able to make a zombie encounter which quite challenged a group of 9th lvl pcs. [and no, I didn't raise the hit die or attacks, I simply took common zombies and made them horrifying in cinematically new ways])
Beyond that my own biases get in the way. I only read a little of Dark Tales, but liked what I read, so that might be well worth picking up ... if you are in a need of story/adventure ideas ... if not, then probably not so much.
While Denizens of Dread is mostly all crunch, I might still recommend it, if you don't own any of the older ravenloft monster compendiums. I find that monster entries are a font of adventure material just waiting to be harnessed ... sure, not all the descriptions give you a great deal to work with, but even a couple paragraphs can generate much larger ideas; a good excercise is to open a monster book to any single page, read the entry and try to design an entire adventure - even if only a single night scenario - out of it. With a little practice it will come to you fairly quickly, by extension making that one monster book a source of dozens upon dozens of adventures - better still, if each adventure prominately features a different monsterouse threat, you don't have to worry about pcs saying "oh great, another vampire/zombie infestation". (although, utilizing ideas from "VanRichten's Guide to the Walking Dead" I was able to make a zombie encounter which quite challenged a group of 9th lvl pcs. [and no, I didn't raise the hit die or attacks, I simply took common zombies and made them horrifying in cinematically new ways])
Yes, I'd go for the RL Campaign setting (just so your players will have a spoiler free book to outline the world), the RL DMG (because it's full of useful stuff), and Denizens of Dread/Darkness (just because that completes the trilogy with a MM style book).
The Gazs are all excellent, I can't recommend them enough. Plenty of fluff, and well written fluff at that, with all the crunch located in the appendix for easy reading.
I got Dark Tales and Disturbing Legends. I wasn't particularly impressed. None of the adventures seemed like the sort that I'd want to run, unlike the 2nd ed. Book of Crypts. The main adventure in that was dreadfully dull to me and I couldn't see how I'd even be able to fit in most of the backstory to the adventure for the PCs. A very barebones typeface and art doesn't help either - I found it hard to concentrate through it. I'm aware others have found this useful so I don't want to discourage you from reading it - but you may be well advised to check out the .pdf version or borrow a friend's edition before plunking down money for the original print.
Van Richten's Arsenal is one of those books, like Van Richten's Guide to the Walking Dead, that's so well written and full of useful stuff that I didn't even care whether I could use it in my campaigns. (And luckily of course I did.) It was enough to just read the good writing in those.
The Gazs are all excellent, I can't recommend them enough. Plenty of fluff, and well written fluff at that, with all the crunch located in the appendix for easy reading.
I got Dark Tales and Disturbing Legends. I wasn't particularly impressed. None of the adventures seemed like the sort that I'd want to run, unlike the 2nd ed. Book of Crypts. The main adventure in that was dreadfully dull to me and I couldn't see how I'd even be able to fit in most of the backstory to the adventure for the PCs. A very barebones typeface and art doesn't help either - I found it hard to concentrate through it. I'm aware others have found this useful so I don't want to discourage you from reading it - but you may be well advised to check out the .pdf version or borrow a friend's edition before plunking down money for the original print.
Van Richten's Arsenal is one of those books, like Van Richten's Guide to the Walking Dead, that's so well written and full of useful stuff that I didn't even care whether I could use it in my campaigns. (And luckily of course I did.) It was enough to just read the good writing in those.
-
NeoTiamat
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 4119
- Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:00 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
Let's see... my take on the matter:
Denizens of Dread: Nearly pure crunch, and not quite as useful as other 'Monster Manual' type books are. Ravenloft relies on dungeon crawls far less then most settings, so you don't need very many monsters, and the classics (Vampires, werewolves, etc) in the back of the RLPHB, supplemented by the SRD is more then enough.
That said, there are some very cool RL-specific critters like the Red Widow, the Wolfwere, and the Dread Elementals that are excellent. There are a lot of really badly written monsters here, but also some gems.
Gaz III and Gaz IV - Very fluffy, and they have some of my favorite domains in them. Borca, Dementlieu, Richumelot, Invidia, all the classics. The decision here is very simple. If the domains in question interest you at *all*, then get this.
Out of the two, I'd get Gaz IV first, if only for the simple reason that there's a wider variety of domains, (from primitive Verbrek to civilized Borca) whereas Gaz III has a more uniform civilized style.
Van Richten's Arsenal - very crunchy, a *bit* of fluff, but still probably the best RL supplement in existence. PrCs, feats, items, you name it its got it. And some of them are very interesting from a 'fluff' perspective on their own. Alchemical Philosopher anyone? This is rounded out with a very useful stable of monster hunters like Jameld of Hroth or George Weathermay, complete with Dread Possibilities. Can't recommend it enough, but it might be too crunch-heavy for you. I'd still get it, it's just that good.
Legacy of the Blood - From the sounds of it, this might be the best for you. Very fluff-heavy, with histories on most of the great families of the Core, as well as a set of NPCs ranging from the moderate (Sir Viktor) to excellent (Celestine D'Honaire-Loverde). Some crunch in the form of family-related feats and classes.
Pretty good book, if not quite as good as the VRA in terms of quality.
Dark Tales and Disturbing Legends - I only got this recently, and I'm sort of 'meh' about it. Five adventures if I remember correctly, all fairly good, but none of them really sparked my interest. Still, probably the most immediately useful of the books.
My advised order:
Gaz IV
Gaz III
Van Richten's Arsenal
Legacy of the Blood
Denizens of Dread
Dark Tales and Disturbing Legends
Denizens of Dread: Nearly pure crunch, and not quite as useful as other 'Monster Manual' type books are. Ravenloft relies on dungeon crawls far less then most settings, so you don't need very many monsters, and the classics (Vampires, werewolves, etc) in the back of the RLPHB, supplemented by the SRD is more then enough.
That said, there are some very cool RL-specific critters like the Red Widow, the Wolfwere, and the Dread Elementals that are excellent. There are a lot of really badly written monsters here, but also some gems.
Gaz III and Gaz IV - Very fluffy, and they have some of my favorite domains in them. Borca, Dementlieu, Richumelot, Invidia, all the classics. The decision here is very simple. If the domains in question interest you at *all*, then get this.
Out of the two, I'd get Gaz IV first, if only for the simple reason that there's a wider variety of domains, (from primitive Verbrek to civilized Borca) whereas Gaz III has a more uniform civilized style.
Van Richten's Arsenal - very crunchy, a *bit* of fluff, but still probably the best RL supplement in existence. PrCs, feats, items, you name it its got it. And some of them are very interesting from a 'fluff' perspective on their own. Alchemical Philosopher anyone? This is rounded out with a very useful stable of monster hunters like Jameld of Hroth or George Weathermay, complete with Dread Possibilities. Can't recommend it enough, but it might be too crunch-heavy for you. I'd still get it, it's just that good.
Legacy of the Blood - From the sounds of it, this might be the best for you. Very fluff-heavy, with histories on most of the great families of the Core, as well as a set of NPCs ranging from the moderate (Sir Viktor) to excellent (Celestine D'Honaire-Loverde). Some crunch in the form of family-related feats and classes.
Pretty good book, if not quite as good as the VRA in terms of quality.
Dark Tales and Disturbing Legends - I only got this recently, and I'm sort of 'meh' about it. Five adventures if I remember correctly, all fairly good, but none of them really sparked my interest. Still, probably the most immediately useful of the books.
My advised order:
Gaz IV
Gaz III
Van Richten's Arsenal
Legacy of the Blood
Denizens of Dread
Dark Tales and Disturbing Legends
Ravenloft GM: Eye of Anubis, Shattered City, and Prof. Lupescu's Traveling Ghost Show
Lead Writer & Editor: VRS Files: Doppelgangers; Contributor: QtR #20, #21, #22, #23, #24
Freelance Writer for Paizo Publishing
Lead Writer & Editor: VRS Files: Doppelgangers; Contributor: QtR #20, #21, #22, #23, #24
Freelance Writer for Paizo Publishing
I have to say Van Richten's Guide to the Walking Dead SHOULD be on your list- it has so much good fluff and some really nice crunch. The fluff made simple undead seem far more disturbing and the crunch helps make these characters (yes I treat ALL monsters- even a skeleton as a char) far more memorable encounters.
You can even use the salient abilities presented in the book for other monster types.
As for your list- get the Gaz's: so much useful background for the Core and its peoples. They will help add depth to your games.
You can even use the salient abilities presented in the book for other monster types.
As for your list- get the Gaz's: so much useful background for the Core and its peoples. They will help add depth to your games.
On ebay it looks like somebody's selling Gazs I through IV in a bulk package.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Ravenloft-gazetter- ... dZViewItem
Could be worth a click.
(And no, it's not me. I just happened to see it and I make no promises about the quality.)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Ravenloft-gazetter- ... dZViewItem
Could be worth a click.
(And no, it's not me. I just happened to see it and I make no promises about the quality.)
Personally, I loved "Dark Tales and Disturbing Legends" as the purest of fluffiness--something to curl up with, read, and enjoy. The first (and most fleshed-out) adventure, though, I can't really see running as a campaign. I mean, the very first thing that struck me was "What player is going to see immortality as a viable goal of their PC's efforts, knowing that they're playing in Ravenloft and that, therefore, it's inevitably going to bite them in the rear sooner or later?"
On the other hand, "The Brood of Blutkalte" is wonderfully creepy and can be set almost anywhere, and "Ashington Manor" (which I'm about 70% certain I'm misnaming) strikes me largely as "Castle Forlorn, only playable"--plus offers a variety of different settings to start from and genuine resolution to the quest. And Maekon is nifty.
On the other hand, "The Brood of Blutkalte" is wonderfully creepy and can be set almost anywhere, and "Ashington Manor" (which I'm about 70% certain I'm misnaming) strikes me largely as "Castle Forlorn, only playable"--plus offers a variety of different settings to start from and genuine resolution to the quest. And Maekon is nifty.
-
vipera aspis
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 351
- Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:38 pm
- Location: Chicago
I second that. The novels are okay once you've got everything else, but some of the writing there is uninspired and others are just plain disruptive to the campaign setting.
The Gazetteers, on the other hand, are worth their weight in gold for sheer background and detail. Do you really need to know what the Darkonian for "Hello" or "Goodbye" is?
No.
Does it add to the fluff? Heck yes.
Do we know what the known knowns are? Sure we do.
Have I been spending too much time studying the rhetorical flourishes of the former bespectacled Secretary of Defense? You could say that.
You play Ravenloft campaigns with the DnD we have, not the DnD we wish we had.
The Gazetteers, on the other hand, are worth their weight in gold for sheer background and detail. Do you really need to know what the Darkonian for "Hello" or "Goodbye" is?
No.
Does it add to the fluff? Heck yes.
Do we know what the known knowns are? Sure we do.
Have I been spending too much time studying the rhetorical flourishes of the former bespectacled Secretary of Defense? You could say that.
You play Ravenloft campaigns with the DnD we have, not the DnD we wish we had.