The end of printed Dungeon & Dragon Magazines?

DeepShadow of FoS · Post by **DeepShadow of FoS** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:27 pm

Familiar indeed, complete with fans jumping to conspiracy-theory conclusions as to who was responsible...

Mangrum · Post by **Mangrum** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:09 am

Catman Jim wrote:Hmm, Wizards decides to license one of it's possibly not-too-profitable properties to another company, then later decides (for whatever reason) to pull it's license back after the other company appears to be making a success of it. Why does that sound familiar?

The Bizarro world version of what happened with Ravenloft?

Catman Jim · Post by **Catman Jim** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:06 am

Mangrum wrote:The Bizarro world version of what happened with Ravenloft?

Hah! Indeed! And also Ral Partha's license to make D&D miniatures, and what happened to M:tG magazine "the Duelist". In the absence of real sales data, the conspiracy theorists run rampant!

For a real taste of outrage (admittedly by the vocal few), look at this thread on Wizard's general D&D forum here

More interesting however, is the piece Wizards now has from some of their top people with their reaction to the news here. There are a few comments dropped that do make me guardedly hopeful for some of the plans for online content, althought I will always be very disappointed to stop getting the magazine that I have subscribed to since issue #14, nearly 30 years!

Drinnik Shoehorn · Post by **Drinnik Shoehorn** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:57 am

Mangrum wrote:
Catman Jim wrote:Hmm, Wizards decides to license one of it's possibly not-too-profitable properties to another company, then later decides (for whatever reason) to pull it's license back after the other company appears to be making a success of it. Why does that sound familiar?
The Bizarro world version of what happened with Ravenloft?

Me am Bizarro-Drinnik. Me am not thinking this is not worst thing to never not happen to Dungeons and Dragons. Me not agree with everyone else. Everyone else wrong.

...Sorry, just finished reading alot of stuff with Bizarro in...

Jester of the FoS · Post by **Jester of the FoS** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:31 am

Catman Jim wrote:Hmm, Wizards decides to license one of it's possibly not-too-profitable properties to another company, then later decides (for whatever reason) to pull it's license back after the other company appears to be making a success of it. Why does that sound familiar?

They also did the same thing for ArtHaus licence of Gamma World but I'd hardly think they were threatened by high sales.

Sometimes people who license products just want them back. WotC's new market strategy seems to be snatching up all their old licenses and, probably, limit competition as the market has continually shrunk over the past three years.

Ail · Post by **Ail** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:18 am

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is Bizarro world?

Also, I don't think this move by WotC is that bad, although I'm in the minority... tree-saving policies and all that

Alex

Joël of the FoS · Post by **Joël of the FoS** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:47 am

Ail wrote:Also, I don't think this move by WotC is that bad, although I'm in the minority... tree-saving policies and all that

I agree with you on this objective, but a book (or a magazine) is still a wonderful technology, that you can bring anywhere, without any batteries involved

And having to print parts of it to read elsewhere is defeating this purpose.

---

The outrage for me is removing it from Paizo's hands. Dragon did improve a lot in those five years, and sales figure were going up (source: Erik Mona, Paizo) ...

If Paizo had moved Dragons and Dungeons to an online model, I would have been pained, but not as now.

A bonus feature from reading Dragon was to get information on other non-WotC RPGs. Always cool and informative to read about other things. Do you think we'll see that in the WotC online thing? Note sure...

Joël

FYI, here's Gary Gygax's reaction:

Howdy,

FWIW, I think the yanking of the licenses from Piazo is merely the latest in a long line of errors of judgement by WotC. This one hurts not only Wizards but the whole of the RPG hobby, as it removes the two best known periodicals from magazine stands, and from the hands of devoted 3E fans.

What a great way to maintain consumer loyalty and build the base of RPG fans.

Cheers,
Gary

Catman Jim · Post by **Catman Jim** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:32 am

I'm probably in the real minority, because one of the things I liked about the magazine most were the ADS (seriously)! My nearest FLGS is a 90 minute drive, so I don't often get to drop in to see what's new. I enjoyed getting the ads for new & coming products. The second thing I liked about a printed magazine was the portability. I usually have a issue or two in my briefcase that travels around with me. Yes, I can get both of these on-line/on-screen, but I just plain prefer a paper copy in my hands.

One thing that is disappointing for me is to see the sales figures some folks have been throwing out. I saw one claim that the average monthly sales of these magazines is between 30 to 45K copies, if that is true, that is about the same as the attendance at a sell-out game at an average baseball stadium, that truthfully is not too great. Didn't they average over 100K issues sold per month at one time in their 30 year history? Declining sales would go a long way to explain this move.

HuManBing · Post by **HuManBing** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:20 pm

This is not particularly relevant but I got .pdfs of every single Gazetteer on my computer... and STILL decided to buy all the hardcover Gaz.

There's something about being hard copy print that appeals to me. They're easier to access in the middle of an adventure too.

cure · Post by **cure** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:23 pm

DeepShadow wrote:Familiar indeed, complete with fans jumping to conspiracy-theory conclusions as to who was responsible...

A conspiracy without a theory is no fun at all. I mean, where is the upside in that?

Catman Jim · Post by **Catman Jim** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:28 pm

cure wrote:A conspiracy without a theory is no fun at all. I mean, where is the upside in that?

My current favorite scapegoat is the snowboard salesman.

LordGodefroi · Post by **LordGodefroi** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:52 pm

(Here's the thoughts I posted over at WOTC's board:)

I haven't been impressed with WOTC direction in recent years. "Forgotten Realms" and "Eberron" bore me to tears. I don't own any products in those game lines.

I usually skip most non-campaign-world-specific hardcovers. The ones I do buy, like Heroes of Horror and Libris Mortis, are few and far between. The last WOTC product I bought was EtCR. In general, I buy only one or two non-campaign-specific works per year.

Of all the D&D/RPG products I purchased the most frequently, it was Dragon magazine. On a day off from work, I'd buy an issue off the newsstand, go to the local sub shop, have lunch, and read. Now, I can't do that. One of my favorite rituals has come to an end. :weep:

Dragon was a nexus point. It was the publication for RPG industry and community news. And, believe it or not, the advertising in Dragon was where I got news for upcoming products from all publishers.

While all of this certainly can be 'ported to electronic media, I won't see it because I don't read electronic publications. . . period. A print media audience is NOT an electronic media audience. They ARE different even if content is the same.

WOTC, take note.

ScS of the Fraternity · Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:56 pm

You know, I think Dragon was heading downhill for a long time now.
I found the latest changes to the magazine to be disapointing to say the least. I found the mag got less and less pertinent to D&D and started focussing way too much on weird sub-genre's of D&D.

There have been a lot of features I used to really enjoy, such as Ecologies when they were made in fiction, and the old KotD cartoons.
Back a year or two ago, I wouldn't miss a single issue. But, as of these last couple months, I found myself just not bothering to pick it up.

'Course, I doubt that was the cause of any of this. But still, maybe its better to see the old mag go then to watch it devolve into something unreadable.

Joël of the FoS · Post by **Joël of the FoS** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:57 pm

And today, it was Dragonlance's turn!

http://www.dragonlance.com/features/articles/10040.aspx

Joël

Spiteful Crow · Post by **Spiteful Crow** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:56 pm

Joël of the FoS wrote:And today, it was Dragonlance's turn!

http://www.dragonlance.com/features/articles/10040.aspx

Joël

DARN THOSE COASTAL WIZARDS! DARN THEM TO HECK!

Nah, I actually dislike Dragonlance. I just wish WotC would do something constructive instead of destructive for a change. ¬_¬

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The end of printed Dungeon & Dragon Magazines?