Magic screwing up modules...

[Vlad]

Hi,

As a DM I'm quite restrictive as of which magic and spells I give to my PCs. For instance, fly and teleportspells won't be in their spellbooks, as is phantom steed. The reason for this is that I hate those spells, because they tend to screw up my modules and adventures. "Oh, Strahd is lowering the portcullis, well no problem, we'll just fly out of his castle!"
I don't like that I must invent ways of preventing players taking a 'time out' out of my adventures like this. I once gave the PCs a portable hole, mainly because I didn't want to be bothered by encumbrance and destroyed equipment. However, they used it for EVERYTHING. Escaping out of prisons, Collecting huge amounts of plunder, smuggling people inside cities, etc. Can't blame them ofcourse, but that's the last hole they will ever find in my campaign.
I prefer that they think of something clever instead of using magic for everything they encounter. It seems that all modules were created with the idea of PCs not having those magicks.

Do you have any experience with this?

[steveflam]

I havent had that experience as of yet because I havent DMed RL in a few years, only played it, and in the Castles & Crusades system. This is in part due(The C&C) to those "rules lawyers" of the 3.5 sysem who can make a battle unbearable, skill checks etc etc. I do play 3.5 but with people who don't abuse of the rules so to speak and make a DM's life a living hell! LOL

From a player's point of view, and if the game is done in the right atmosphere, music , low lights etc, it is fun. Most of who I have played with haven't really exagerated their spells at all and being from RL, where magic is not as common as in any other world, we do not have access to much(Usually we've started at 1st level and worked our ways up-many pc deaths lol but thats to be expected!).

One time we did make it to Castle Ravenloft but we all died LOL as we werent lucky in our "rolls". That is to be expected though in RL!

I guess it depends what level they started, where they are from, etc.

My suggestion might be to have you rpc's from RL where magic isnt as common as in say FR, Greyhawk, Dragonlance - you get the picture.

When I did DM RL , i was pretty strict for magic, money and equipment. RL is supposed to be tough, so you have the right as a DM to refuse spells and anything else

Thats's just my opinion, Vlad

Steve

[Vlad]

Thanks, some players do hail from FR (one of them just made a new (FR) character asking 'can I get some magic items'? ** 2 minutes of silences after my lower jaw slams into the table**
I am quite restrictive on magic and most players don't bother looking at what they could do with their spells (they're lazy..). One is different though, so he manages to use the spells to great effect (and dismay to me..)

[steveflam]

I can remember them getting to RL through the mists and, me knowing their equipment, having an encounter they wouldn't die from but to showq them what RL is about. They end up unconcious and without certain pages missing from their spellbooks etc etc he he gotta love RL !

[Drinnik Shoehorn]

You shouldn't penalise someone for creative use of spells, though, that's half the fun of the game.

If they get away and you didn't plan them to, then pause for a bit and think of a way to get the game back on track. What if the Choking Mist surrounds the Castle as well as the village? What if Strahd has planned for them to escape?

Make them think the Vistani are the only way to escape Barovia and when they're in their keeping, have the gypsies take them back to the Castle.

[HuManBing]

I hear you about those spoiled Forgotten Realms players. Faerun NPCs and locations are routinely mocked as the butt of all jokes in my gaming circle, and there is a special level of hatred reserved for munchkin FR players who expect large amounts of treasure and renown for going out and beating up goblins.

In our first runthrough of the Grand Conjunction, I set one brief mini-adventure in Faerun, with the strong implication that Elminster had come to a bad end after several Kargat officers (including a greater wolfwere, which in 2nd ed. was nearly invincible in direct combat) kicked down his tower door and started taking adverse possession.

[steveflam]

LOL nice. Yeah even though I do like FR, ELminster is a bit "Over rated" greatly. So he was Mystra's lover, big deal. Yadda yadda yadda. I like FR and usually play there, yet I know and have learned to respect RL as a player even if I do play pc's online here from FR. RL is the place to play most definitely. EVen though my pc's are from FR in my table top games, I take nothing for granted. My DM is really clever with effects, music and lighting(only candles). And we all know it wont be a cakewalk. When we play we are all scared and unsure. It is a most wonderful feeling as a gamer, really. You have to know how to play your p.c's no matter where they are from. RL is RL after all, the best World in gaming

[cure]

Transport spells and even create water spells can take too much of the sting out of, for example, the Amber Wastes. A storyline for an adventure spanning the wastes is practically obliged to presuppose the absence of certains spells or must be of fairly low level.

[Spiteful Crow]

Transport spells and even create water spells can take too much of the sting out of, for example, the Amber Wastes. A storyline for an adventure spanning the wastes is practically obliged to presuppose the absence of certains spells or must be of fairly low level.

IIRC, Create Water doesn't work on Athas. No reason why it should work in the Amber Wastes either.

[Vlad]

You shouldn't penalise someone for creative use of spells, though, that's half the fun of the game.

If they get away and you didn't plan them to, then pause for a bit and think of a way to get the game back on track. What if the Choking Mist surrounds the Castle as well as the village? What if Strahd has planned for them to escape?

Make them think the Vistani are the only way to escape Barovia and when they're in their keeping, have the gypsies take them back to the Castle.

No you're right, that's why I don't give them those spells on forehand. I don't mind a clever escape using a certain spell. I do mind continously using the same trick..

[Lost Heretic]

If they can keep getting away with the same trick over and over again, then your villains are idiots. No offense.

[Vlad]

If they can keep getting away with the same trick over and over again, then your villains are idiots. No offense.

Well, it's not only escaping but also getting into places that should be hard to reach, like the top of Castle Ravenlofts tower for instance. Or entering it's dungeon through the lookout in the cliff. (In my campaign one tried to do that, with a rope. The last thing he saw was a dark shape under the overhang slicing his rope in two.. Much more fun than a PC flying to the window and Strahd casting dispel magic.

What I intended to say is that you want to make it hard for your PCs, like in horrorstories. Those spells screw that up.

[DeepShadow of FoS]

They can, but they don't have to. There are plenty of loopholes in magic that a clever DM can exploit.

I you like, give us a specific example, and we'll help you find a way to save your game.

[Vlad]

They can, but they don't have to. There are plenty of loopholes in magic that a clever DM can exploit.

I you like, give us a specific example, and we'll help you find a way to save your game.

Wel, it isn't happening right now, so I can't provide an example now.
I just seems that most modules weren't wriiten with this kind of magic in mind (except the lame 'when they try to fly away, the PCs find out that they return from where they came'). Take 'Neither man nor beast'. One of the nice things about this module is exploring the island. What's the fun if one of the PCs flies up, draws a map and says: okay, there's a monastry on top of that rock. I'll check it out.
Or in Forlorn, if the PCs are contemplating if they want to enter Tristenoira, that one of the PCs makes 'reconnaissance-flights' over the castle. It takes awat the gothic mood of walking up the decripit Barbican, etc. Perhaps that's my most strong objection: it takes away the mood.

[Sylaire]

Transport spells and even create water spells can take too much of the sting out of, for example, the Amber Wastes. A storyline for an adventure spanning the wastes is practically obliged to presuppose the absence of certains spells or must be of fairly low level.

IIRC, Create Water doesn't work on Athas. No reason why it should work in the Amber Wastes either.

You can get the opposite problem out of that, though, namely the classic "Gee, which game rules arbitrarily aren't gonna work today, huh, Mr. DM?" issue. Athas (and for that matter Ravenloft) are entire game-worlds, essentially self-contained universes. It's probably just me, but it always seemed to me that if to make an adventure work the characters had to be stripped of certain abilities, equipment, and so on then you really need to step back and ask yourself why you're running the adventure, and if there's a better way.

(As I'm sure you figured out from that, I'm definitely not one for the classic "weekend in hell" Ravenloft scenarios.)