Druid class for PC

[kottakinge]

Hello there.
One of my Pc is a druid, we play in 3.5 edition and i wonder what changes did u make to adapt this class for Ravenloft.
Druid is the less 'ghotic' class of all.
Someone who could change into animal is just ridiculous, but my player always wanted to play a druid so i let him take that (he's now 6th level).
I wonder what rule can i use to help him developed a nice character who suit the world.
Advices needed.
Thanks.

[vipera aspis]

hello Kottakinge, i have a druid PC in my game. The main problem wtih druids i have noticed is Animal companians; they must stay outside of town(he had a wolf). And the thought of he who runs with wolves must be a wolf.

Changes, most are non-cosmetic. And it it varies; I have them feared by most common folk("..withers crops and he can turn into a beast...horror.."), hated by the first bastion of ezra and hunted by the forth, treated with respect by wolfweres(though still potential food, always with respect), given nods by the vistani, beloved by forfarians, treated as a warlock-servent of the hags in tepest(and burned at the steak for it), secretly at war with darkon(do to the massive amount of undead), loved by sailors(once they understand he's not a werecreature), and strangely sometimes called upon to Verbrek forest to do marriages. They are a bard's right hand man and have all the answers a cleric doesn't. They always have a feral look and at least a shock of red hair. A master of ritual and your strong-arm's best friend. if anyone would be crazed to fight the unnatual horrors of the night, it is your zealous druid.

and no casting spells while in animal form. ever.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Someone changing into an animal isn't gothic? Tell that to Dracula and the Wolfman for starters...

I don't think the druid is any less gothic than a wizard casting polymorph or fireball. It's part of the d&d system, and sometimes the "gothicness" of Ravenloft's gothic fantasy looks a blind eye at the fantasy part.

(I let my Ranger PC pass his wolf companion off as a dog most of the time. Sometimes there's a reaction for good (Kartakass) or ill. But it's a major feature of the class and it's unfair to deny it most of the time.)

[Rotipher of the FoS]

I let my Ranger PC pass his wolf companion off as a dog most of the time.

This works even better if the "dog" in question is, in fact, a dog. There's nothing to stop a ranger or druid from choosing a tame animal for an animal companion, after all. Sure, it might be statted as a wolf, but that can be the player's and DM's little secret; to the characters, it's just a big dog with a habit of pulling opponents off their feet.

FWIW, I once knew a player whose half-Vistani ranger had a dancing bear for her animal companion. Literally a dancing bear: she used one of its tricks to teach it to perform, and so long as she kept it muzzled in town the animal was tolerated by most communities as an entertaining "pet".

[kottakinge]

Vipera:I definitivly agree with you when u tell to never let casting spell in animal form, my player did it last session and it was sure funny but very ridiculous (imagine a giant tortoise, yeah a tortoise cause he was afraid of those hounds so he transform into tortoise in order to hide for their theet in his shell, so imagine a giant tortoise preparing spell to call lightning) that's not the feel i want to create in my game.
I'll review that with him, but because it was the rule in 3.5 (i'm not yet familiar with the rule and so are my players) i let do it.
I has a wolf as animal compagnion but never let it in town (and he dismiss it last session because they travel at boat).
I will talk to him in order to correct this, but i don't want to penalize him (he's the weakest character of the group).

[Korumil]

I actually play the druid in vipera's campaign. They're great all around characters with a little bit of everything to pull from. They're in touch with the land and the lore of the forest (if not the animals/plants might clue them in via Speak with Animals/Plants), they can survive almost any trek with a high Survival check or three, they can heal (always nice in RL), they cover the areas that clerics don't, and if it comes down to it they still have a decent enough BAB progression to be able to hit something.

I always try to keep in mind that the druid usually grows up living in the wilderness of RL and a lot of the weird shit is just every day normal stuff for them. It's when they're confronted with the political and social webs of human culture that they may need a bit of help. It always surprises my character that humans who hunt in packs (adventuring parties) often turn on each other and actually believe they can survive any real accomplishment on their own. The only animals that live solitary lives are those ruthless enough to kill without hesitation and not worry about the shades of grey. Everything else just has to learn to cooperate.

The druid needs to remember that they shouldn't specialize in one area. From the get go they work from a very broad spectrum of abilities and they need to help round out a party, not be it's focus.

As a side note, I agree that the wildshape ability is a little tricky to pull off effectively and I'm planning on only using it for fast transport or scouting purposes, since vipera would set me aflame if I even considered taking the Natural Spell feat. I'm working on my own PrC that involves ritual extentions of a lot of the druid spells and abilities. We'll see how it turns out.

[kottakinge]

Korumil:thanks for ur druidic point of view
I will search for a way to give my druids new more "Ravenloftian" powers, but i will remove the ability to cast spell while in wild shape.
I'm interested to share those rituals u were talking about.

[Malus Black]

I have always been of the opinion that feel, mood and theme shouldn't have a severe impact on game mechanics. Certainly, minor alterations are fine (like action points in Eberron or the many, mainly flavor-filled changes to spells in Ravenloft. The many changes in the RLPHB are examples of changes that don't work), but at some point there is the very real danger of detracting from the players' enjoyment of the game (and if the players aren't having fun, odds are you're not having fun either).

Take, for example, a low-magic campaign setting. On the many threads on the WotC boards discussing this, you invariably get suggestions like "no magic items" (and, incidentally, going by the wealth by level table in the DMG, PCs and NPCs have a lot less magic items than most people think), "make spellcasters succeed on a Spellcraft check to cast spells", "lower spell progression" and so on. (Of course, these people often forget that nothing exists in a vacuum, and so gladly throw monsters with DR/magic at the PCs, but that's another topic.) The thing is, will the players have fun playing such gimped spellcasters? Most people want to be good at something. If you pick a spellcaster, you want to be good at magic, which this kind of change doesn't allow. In their desire to make a low-magic setting, these world-builders let their perceptions of feel and mood drastically alter how players experience the game, often for the worse. It's closely related to DMs who write a magnificent plot without thought for the players and their characters.

To cease my rambling and get back on topic, removing wild shape and natural spell are changes that will seriously impact how the druid is played. It's very likely that the player, when he picked a druid, wanted to play a shapechanging character. Not to mention that wild shape is one of the key elements to a druid's survival; without it they're pretty much just a fragile cleric with (at lower levels, anyway) a weaker spell selection. Same thing with the natural spell feat, it really helps the druid shine, taking full advantage of its versatility in shapes and spells.

The feel of the game can easily be applied to any game mechanic. As has been mentioned, shapechanging is a staple of Gothic literature and classic fairytales. How is casting spells in animal shape any different, any less mood-breaking, than casting spells in any form? If anything, a wildshaped druid is more likely to be casting spells, as you could argue that it's closer to nature.

To summarise my long-winded post, most changes intended to emulate a certain mood should be cosmetic, and should work within the framework of the game mechanics. Only if you intend to change something fundamental that is positively required for your view of the setting, and only if you are sure you understand not only the mechanics but the reasoning behind them, should you attempt to tamper with the way the game plays.

[Luke Fleeman]

I say a good way to go is to have the Druid draw his power from the corrupted land, and make his powers slightly askew. Elemental spells shoudl get subbed with Ravenloft elements. Let him shift into things like a swarm of rats at certain levels. Make sure he is seen as a sort of strange mystic with awful powers, like a warlock fo the woods.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Alternately, you can depict the druid as an agent of "pure" Nature, which is actively fighting a losing battle to keep the darkness of Ravenloft from corrupting it entirely. Sure, evil's influence over the Land is great ... but at least the plants are still (mostly) ordinary plants, the animals are still normal animals (albeit sometimes forced to carry out the evil wishes of a darklord), etc. If Nature -- and, as its proxy, druids -- weren't making any effort to keep itself free of corruption, perhaps there would only be monstrous wildlife and vegetation in the game-setting ... just as if there weren't heroes in Ravenloft to oppose the monsters on humanity's behalf, a la Van Richten, there might not be anywhere left for ordinary folk to be safe.

Granted, this means stepping away from the "Nature is not your friend" thematic element of Gothic literature. But since PCs can't ever be sure if natural forces are under Nature's control, or that of the DPs and/or lords, you can replace it with "The very elements cannot be trusted", an equally disturbing notion ("Even some of the trees are on her side..." - Mr. Beaver) that can undermine PC confidence in the same way.

[Chris]

One other thing to keep in mind is this:
Natural Spell isn´t so powerfull anymore when you consider the latest errata of the players handbook...

so much to the rules ^^

As long as the player doesn´t ride on the back of an t-rex inside a city, wildshape in a treeant and starting a flamestrike-lightshow it would still be Ravenloft...

[kottakinge]

I don't want to remove wild shape, but to change the way animal spell function.
Chris:sorry, but i don't see what errata do u talking about??
I download the last errata of the PHB of wizard and see nothing about animal spell, would mind please light my lantern about that?
Thanks.

[Chris]

Fear my ultimate power of copy and paste !!

My fault, Wildshape was changed, not Natural Spell.
Sorry about my post, I seldom write texts in this language, so my grammar and spelling isn´t the best.


Wild Shape
Player’s Handbook, page 37
Replace sentence 3 of this class feature with the
following text:
This ability functions like the alternate form special
ability (see the Monster Manual), except as noted
Add the following sentence to the end of paragraph
Each time you use wild shape, you regain lost hit
as if you had rested for a night.
Add this new paragraph after the current paragraph
Any gear worn or carried by the druid melds into
form and becomes nonfunctional. When the druid
to her true form, any objects previously melded into
new form reappear in the same location on her body
they previously occupied and are once again functional.
Any new items worn in the assumed form fall off
land at the druid's feet.


And here an interesting change in Alternate Form:

Apply any changed physical ability score modifiers in
all appropriate areas with one exception: the creature
retains the hit points of its original form despite any
change to its Constitution.

[Mortepierre]

Any gear worn or carried by the druid melds into
form and becomes nonfunctional. When the druid
to her true form, any objects previously melded into
new form reappear in the same location on her body
they previously occupied and are once again functional.
Any new items worn in the assumed form fall off
land at the druid's feet.

Even so, that doesn't change anything to Natural Spell since its description states:

You can also use any material components or focuses you possess, even if such items are melded within your current form.

Thus, the feat allows you to bypass the problems of the melded items (well, at least for spell focus and spell components).

I have to side with Malus on this one. Why deprive the druid of something that is his bread and butter? Shapechanging not gothic enough for you? Why all the shapechangers then?

Spellcasting animals are funny? In what way? In ancient times, most spirits of the land were depicted as beasts gifted with supra-human intelligence, cunning, and/or wisdom PLUS obvious magical powers. Raven or Coyote come to mind here, though I do agree that they weren't exactly known for smiting people with thunder or fire on a regular basis.

On the contrary. I would advocate that a RL druid more than a "normal setting" druid should be able to cast spells in animal form. Can you imagine anything more terrifying for a normal, average human? You spy a wolf near your sheeps. You try to scare it away. The beast howls a bit and suddenly plants all around grab you and drag you down. Heck, I would run home and start a witch-hunt after such an experience! (assuming I survived it)

He changed into a purpoise to avoid predators? Good thinking on his part! Do you think it would have been smarter to change into a dog, get in a melee fight and be killed?

The mark of a good RL DM is to work with (and around, at times) the players, not against them. They live in a world whose odds are already stacked heavily against them. Let's not add insult to injury by depriving them of their last few means of survival...

[Korumil]

Even with a ban on Natural Spell, the wildshape ability has been infinitely useful for me.

For example, my party has decided to attempt to traverse the entirety of the Balinoks on the very cusp of winter. One of the worst hazards being the icy terrain and the sudden gusts of wind. A single failed balance check and a low roll for a reflex save has sent me off the edge of a sheer cliff more than once. The first time resulted in my party members having a short service in my honor before we moved on, only taking minor note of the strange white owl now perched on our carriage. Another point to consider along the same vein, are the many combat options presented. Imagine grappling a foe and pulling both off the edge of a cliff face, releasing the grapple and wildshaping to escape. If belonging to a party that doesn't fear and despise werewolves, one might shape to a wolf and trip attack enemies off the cliff.

The fact that the druid can wildshape at level five gives her wings much earlier than almost any other class. As well as being a mode of transportation much less conspicuous than a full grown man simply levitating across the countryside.