Meaning of Liffe Discussion

[Nathan of the FoS]

I have no problems with running things from a Krynnish background.

Totally unrelated, but Drakov is from Krynn; he's just not from Ansalon. (If I have that right--I mean the continent where most of the books take place.)

[Jester of the FoS]

Yeah, but for this we're sticking as close to cannon as possible. And since Sithican is listed as the language and a language barrier is referenced I might as well keep the Krynnish background. Two references to Krynn versus a couple to Greyhawk, and one veiled at that.
It's all irrelevant anyway as it'll all be reduced to two or three lines in the text and have no real impact on what I plan to do with the land.

As for the deities thing, I prefer to use whatever names are published first, but I can see your point about them seeming out of place. For Lendore, I would call him "the Timelord" or something like that.

Ugh, I think I'll stay away from that name personally. Nothing breaks the mood more than the player's asking if a god has a big rainbow scarf or bugging the high priest to say "fantastic!"

[Bluebomber4evr]

As for the deities thing, I prefer to use whatever names are published first, but I can see your point about them seeming out of place. For Lendore, I would call him "the Timelord" or something like that.

Ugh, I think I'll stay away from that name personally. Nothing breaks the mood more than the player's asking if a god has a big rainbow scarf or bugging the high priest to say "fantastic!"

good point.

anyway, here's the write-up I did for Prisoners of the Mist. Use what you want from it (I borrowed liberally from your own stuff, Jester )

Liffe

Cultural Level: Chivalric

Climate: Temperate

Terrain: Forests, Hills, Plains, Swamps (island)

Major Settlements: Armeikos, Claveria, Moondale, Aferdale

Population: 5000

Races: 90% Humans, 5% Other

Languages: Darkonese, Vaasi

Religions: Ezra, Bane

Government: Hereditary aristocracy, with republican settlements

Ruler: Baron Lyron Evensong

Resources: potatoes, corn, sheep, dairy, cod, herring, mackerel, lobsters, talc, salt, ships, pottery

The Folk: Liffan skin tones range from tan to olive; brown and auburn hair are common, though some individuals have hair as light as honey or as dark as coal. Likewise, eye coloration is highly variable; brown and gray are seen most often. Liffans tend to have square or oval faces and strong jaw lines. Dress normally consists of a short tunic and close-fitting trousers with a cape or cloak, tailored for ease of movement. Designs and patterns are often stictched into their clothes, such as plaids, checks, ovals and diamonds.

The people of Liffe enjoy their independance as a small nation. Recent trade with Darkon and Nova Vaasa has given rise to a large merchant class, though it also has brought in cultural influence from these nations, which Liffe's ruler dislikes. The Baron sees this cultural contact as a threat to Liffe's independance. The populace of Liffe, on the other hand, seeks to end Liffe's isolation and has increased its contact with other nations of the Core. Farmers work harder to produce more crops to sell across sea which they use to hire more hands and produce even more crops. Meanwhile there are the newly starting craftsmen anxiously producing their wares for sell overseas and the traders and explorers hoping for new exotic items to bring back. Ironically, the Liffan people are so desperate to trade, yet so much needs to be imported that there is little to offer. Given that many craftsmen are so new to their skill and may lack the years of experience, many mimic the crafts from Darkon and Nova Vaasa, producing cheap copies and knock-off products. Waves of cheap, supposedly "masterwork" Darkonian pottery are now being sold in ports across the Nocturnal Sea.

The Law: Liffe is the realm of Baron Lyron Evensong, a highborn bard who prizes his island's independance. The Baron dwells in an opulent manner in the small town of Claveria. Though he is seen every day, he never steps foot outside of his house, the farthest he goes is his front porch. So all edicts are issued from this porch, with visitors only rarely going inside his mansion. The Baron has instituted a code of morality in Liffe. Those who obey his moral code are free to otherwise do as they wish. Those who do not face stiff penalties; these are usually fines, but harsh offenders have been known to be brought to the Baron's home and have never been seen again.

Each of the towns in Liffe have a local constabulary to keep the piece. Constables are elected by the populace and they keep their position for life. When a constable dies, a new election is held. The towns of Liffe are ruled by a council of elders. These councils run the day-to-day affairs of their settlements, enforcing the Baron's edicts and moral code, arbitrating settlements, and levying taxes and fines.

Classes: Bards are the most prized citizens, though few of Liffe's population are born with the natural talent. Fighters are fairly common, and many serve in the local constabulary. Clerics are welcome, so long as their beliefs don't contradict Baron Evensong's moral edicts. Paladins are welcome here, unlike many other lands of the Core. Their code of honor and goodness pleases the Baron. Wizards and sorcerors are distrusted, but respected. So long as they behave themselves and don't practice necromancy, they are allowed to dwell here. Rogues flaunt the Baron's moral edicts, and are not tolerated, yet they still are found here. Other classes are not known here.

Recommended Skills: Craft Armor, Craft Weapon, Lore, Perform

Recommended Feats: Artist, Courteous Magocracy, Curse Song, Dodge, Empower Spell, Expertise, Extend Spell, Extra Music, Lingering Song, Maximize Spell, Mobility, Quicken Spell, Skill Focus (lore), Skill Focus (perform), Weapon Focus (rapier)


Names:

-Liffan Male Names: Ardmor, Boyce, Estran, Gilos, Jakome, Ragnol, Tullus, Varian, Wat, Xanthus

-Liffan Female Names: Aldea, Catalin, Francesca, Gisele, Imogen, Marguerite, Ondyne, Serilda, Virdisia, Zezilia

Source: RR2 Book of Crypts, Ravenloft 3rd Edition Campaign Setting, Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, Adventure Hook Bank from the Fraternity of Shadow's website (http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/)

Note that I used the same names that are suggested for Darkon because I ignored the Krynnish stuff, and the suggested feats and skills are limited to what are available in Neverwinter Nights.

[Jester of the FoS]

I just recieved an interesting e-mail from one of the Kargatane regarding the Nocturnal Sea and some (very unofficial) brainstorms for the land. Much of it adressed Liffe, in part the religion (the Thousand Gods mentioned earlier).

While different from what I originally planned it gave me some good ideas on how to incorporate the Book of Crypts as a whole (as well as neatly resolving the Greyhawk/Krynn debate). I'll leave the details as a surprise for when the book comes out.

Oh, and a small note. There is no University in Liffe. There's a college thought. Just a small nitpick.

[Lord Cyclohexane]

Oh, and a small note. There is no University in Liffe. There's a college thought. Just a small nitpick.

Sorry, habit. I'm still not clear on the difference between the two, so I often screw that up. I realize that a University goes up to doing PhDs whereas a college doesn't have that high of a level of education, but I'm not so clear on how difficult it would be to upgrade a college to a university. And personally (as my above stuff) think that the College of Armeikos would, after Liffe becomes part of the Core and gains all the extra applicants, would likely expand and improve and become the University of Liffe instead.

But yeah, canon only shows it as a college. Sorry about potentially throwing people off.

[Lord Cyclohexane]

And just to note, with the whole religion thing going back and forth (my idea being not-so-good, then Kargatane idea coming out, etc), I think I'm going to just leave the religion thing altogether.

And similarly, I think I'm going to back out on the University idea; when I read about Lendor and all of the relationships to scholarship and learning that follows with his religion, I had some good ideas. Now I'm not so sure I know anything of what's going on, and so I'm backing out at the moment.

I'd still like to contribute something, but I now realize that's going to be harder than I thought. Especially since I now realize that half of what's canon is going to be completely ignored (most everything from Book of Crypts, as Moondale changed from simple village to large town between BoC and DoD, losing any religion as Lendor is to be removed, who knows what's happening to the Baron, focusing on Krynnish influence that I saw nothing of in BoC and isn't delved into in DoD or RLCS)...

Back to the drawing board go I. At best I could create something so generic that it could fit anywhere, but with everything up in the air on Liffe, it's hard to make anything that would fit.

[Jester of the FoS]

Well, I'm being vague because my own plans are changing slightly (mostly my take on the Book of Crypts and the lord) to become an amalgam of ideas.
Right now I'm trying to keep everything including Lendor, Malar and all the towns and villains in the Book of Crypts. Even the believed unrelated ones such as Puncheron and Nightblood will have a place.
Liffe will likely be incorporating gods from the Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Dragonlance and more, as per some suggestions which I find interesting.

When I get the details hammered out myself I'll post more (a rough guide or thematic outline) or send out a PM to interested parties.

At this point anything goes and I'm more than willing to bend to accomodate suggestions. So write up what you want as a sidebar or subsection and send it off. If it fits (and isn't total, unreadable crap ) it's in. And if it can be tweaked it'll likely still be in (after said tweaking).

[Rotipher of the FoS]

I realize that a University goes up to doing PhDs whereas a college doesn't have that high of a level of education, but I'm not so clear on how difficult it would be to upgrade a college to a university. And personally (as my above stuff) think that the College of Armeikos would, after Liffe becomes part of the Core and gains all the extra applicants, would likely expand and improve and become the University of Liffe instead.

A college doesn't even have to offer a full range of subjects to upgrade to a university; if there's even one subject in which it offers Ph.D.s, it makes the cut. Perhaps Armeikos College only just began offering doctoral degrees in one subject -- probably in the Humanities, because Liffe's not advanced enough to compete with the western schools in the sciences or populous enough toneed formal Social Studies; plus, something outside his manor ought to reflect Evensong's artistic leanings -- and most people simply haven't gotten used to the idea that it's calling itself the "University of Liffe" now?

[The Giamarga]

Hmmm, I see little of Krynnish background in Evensong, except for the note that says that he's from Krynn.

And I'm not sure if he even fits there culturally/technologically, what with his harpsichord. Maybe it's a gnomish invention though..

[Rotipher of the FoS]

If we're gonna nitpick about keyboard instruments turning up where they're not supposed to, then you can tell Strahd you're confiscating his post-medieval pipe organ as anachronistic, Giamarga. Me, I'll watch you tell him that ... from a great distance!

[doctor-evil]

Rotipher said:
"A college doesn't even have to offer a full range of subjects to upgrade to a university; if there's even one subject in which it offers Ph.D.s, it makes the cut. Perhaps Armeikos College only just began offering doctoral degrees in one subject -- probably in the Humanities, because Liffe's not advanced enough to compete with the western schools in the sciences or populous enough toneed formal Social Studies; plus, something outside his manor ought to reflect Evensong's artistic leanings -- and most people simply haven't gotten used to the idea that it's calling itself the "University of Liffe" now?[/quote]"

In the US the distinction between a college and university is pretty clear cut (no graduate degrees). But it's less cut and dry in Europe. There are several colleges that are infact universities with graduate students, the name is mostly traditional/historical. If you look at Oxford and Cambridge there are halls and colleges which are components of the larger university. Sometime college is used in a way that US universities would use the term campus.
Perhaps Armeikos College is just one college in the University of Liffe (and there are other smaller, newer colleges/campuses elsewhere on the island).
But I like the idea that Rotifer suggested, that it is technically a university but the locals refer to it as "the college" by tradition.

[doctor-evil]

"And I'm not sure if he even fits there culturally/technologically, what with his harpsichord. Maybe it's a gnomish invention though..."

The harpsichord was actually invented in the middle ages (1300 and something). It started to take off in the mid/late-Elizabethan period (late 1500s) which would certainly make it a "chivalric" period item.

[Lord Cyclohexane]

Hmmm, I see little of Krynnish background in Evensong, except for the note that says that he's from Krynn.

And I'm not sure if he even fits there culturally/technologically, what with his harpsichord. Maybe it's a gnomish invention though..

Actually, curiously, it turns out that van Richten also has a harpsichord, so apparently it's not that weird technologically.

Another reason that the sisters spend so much time in this room is the harpsichord to the right of the door. Van Richten brought this beautiful instrument back from Richemulot, along with a stack of sheet music. Unfortunately, Dr. Van Richten was a scholar, not a musician, so the instrument went mostly unused. However, Gennifer has more than made up for that during her stay.

I realize this doesn't help with ideas on Liffe at all, but ... eh, I don't know why I posted this, honestly. (shrugs)