At the WotC boards, I'm part of a project creating a Warhammer D20 campaign setting, and I was thinking of imparting an NPC from there -a Necromancer/Champion of Tzeentch- to use in Ravenloft games. Would you allow or forbid such a character yourself? Firstly, the WHD20 setting uses a mana-based spellcasting system- with severe consequences for running out of mana in mid-spell. Secondly, because of his classes, the character is also quite effective in melee combat- he essentially gets to wear full-plate without suffering a chance for spell failure. Though as we've yet to actually do stats for Chaos Armour, it might just be Damage Reduction with an unusual appearance.
So what do you think? If you don't think he's too overpowered, then I'll explain what limited "uses" I've managed to think up for him- that's something else I need advice with.
On a similar topic, do you think Champions of the other Four Chaos Gods (Khorne, Nurgle and Slaanesh) could be usable in a Ravenloft game? If so, how? If it's neccessary, I'll explain the basic "tenants" these gods in a new post.
Seeking Advice on an NPC Idea
Seeking Advice on an NPC Idea
"Is there any word more meaningless than 'hope'? Besides 'blarfurgsnarg,' of course."
"Seek and Locate! Locate and Destroy! Destroy and Rejoice!"
"Seek and Locate! Locate and Destroy! Destroy and Rejoice!"
If you're asking whether he's too powerful for your campaign, then I'd have to say it's your call. Maybe your campaign is best geared for letting the PCs face a being of his power.
If you're asking whether he's too powerful to post here, then no. Nobody's ever too powerful to post - slap a few stats on him and stick him in this thread. He may be too powerful for me to put in my campaign, or for the next DM to stick in his campaign, but it's still your prerogative to post it and share.
Be bold! Be brave! Be resolute!
P.S. Of thees "Warhammer" theeng, I know naaatheeng...
If you're asking whether he's too powerful to post here, then no. Nobody's ever too powerful to post - slap a few stats on him and stick him in this thread. He may be too powerful for me to put in my campaign, or for the next DM to stick in his campaign, but it's still your prerogative to post it and share.
Be bold! Be brave! Be resolute!
P.S. Of thees "Warhammer" theeng, I know naaatheeng...
Actually, I was asking if he sounded overly powerful for the Ravenloft setting. I'd like to post his stats... but I don't have them yet; we're still polishing off the magic system and haven't even begun the Chaos stuff yet.
For the curious: Warhammer is a setting on a renaissance (I think) level world of Gothic Fantasy, where humanity and the other "forces of light" (ancient, egotistical, decadent High Elves, stubborn, grudge-bearing, self-destructive Dwarfs, inhuman Wood Elves) fight for their very souls against legions of dark forces, from the war-crazed Greenskins (Orcs & Goblins) to the cavern-dwelling, scheming Skaven (humanoid rats) to the murderous slave-taking Dark Elves to the endless hordes of Chaos, the inhuman worshippers of the Dark Gods.
Chaos is roughly equivalent with "Evil" in the Warhammer world, consisting of myriad "Daemons" (Outsiders of various powers) and legions of "Gods" of various strengths and personalities. The whole mess is ruled -for lack of a better term- by four ever-squabbling deities known as the Greater Gods of Chaos. These are:
Khorne- the Blood God, the Skulltaker, the Lord of Slaughter, a brutal and barbarous god of bloodshed and hatred, whose aspects encompass warfare, martial prowess, battle-honour, murder and other such violent acts.
Nurgle- Father of Famine, King of Decay and Despair, Lord of Plagues and Rot, a strangely jovial and paternal god of disease, decay, entropy and misery.
Slaanesh- the Dark Prince, the Lady of Pain, the Lord of Lust, the androgynous/hermaphroditic god of pleasure, pain, excess, lust, perversion, hedonism and obsession.
Tzeentch- the Great Schemer, the Changer of the Ways, god of change, corruption, transformation, deceit, manipulation and sorcery.
Chaos Champions are essentially Blackguards who, devoted to one of these gods or to the entire pantheon of Chaos Undivided, seek to become greater than human. As they commit acts of evil and chaos, they attract attention from their infernal patrons, being rewarded with "gifts". These range from supernatural powers to grotesque, if useful, physical mutations. The lucky ones will be transformed into creatures called "Daemon Princes"; immortal Outsiders of the darkness. Most will fall by the wayside, while the unlucky will be transformed into gibbering mindless horrors called Chaos Spawn.
I'm not really the best at summing up though; try searching "Warhammer" at Wikipedia to get a far more detailed description.
My main problem with the NPC I mentioned was, in addition to my fears the idea would be overpowerful, devising exactly what I'd use him for. In fact, how would I use any Chaos Champion NPC in Ravenloft?
For the curious: Warhammer is a setting on a renaissance (I think) level world of Gothic Fantasy, where humanity and the other "forces of light" (ancient, egotistical, decadent High Elves, stubborn, grudge-bearing, self-destructive Dwarfs, inhuman Wood Elves) fight for their very souls against legions of dark forces, from the war-crazed Greenskins (Orcs & Goblins) to the cavern-dwelling, scheming Skaven (humanoid rats) to the murderous slave-taking Dark Elves to the endless hordes of Chaos, the inhuman worshippers of the Dark Gods.
Chaos is roughly equivalent with "Evil" in the Warhammer world, consisting of myriad "Daemons" (Outsiders of various powers) and legions of "Gods" of various strengths and personalities. The whole mess is ruled -for lack of a better term- by four ever-squabbling deities known as the Greater Gods of Chaos. These are:
Khorne- the Blood God, the Skulltaker, the Lord of Slaughter, a brutal and barbarous god of bloodshed and hatred, whose aspects encompass warfare, martial prowess, battle-honour, murder and other such violent acts.
Nurgle- Father of Famine, King of Decay and Despair, Lord of Plagues and Rot, a strangely jovial and paternal god of disease, decay, entropy and misery.
Slaanesh- the Dark Prince, the Lady of Pain, the Lord of Lust, the androgynous/hermaphroditic god of pleasure, pain, excess, lust, perversion, hedonism and obsession.
Tzeentch- the Great Schemer, the Changer of the Ways, god of change, corruption, transformation, deceit, manipulation and sorcery.
Chaos Champions are essentially Blackguards who, devoted to one of these gods or to the entire pantheon of Chaos Undivided, seek to become greater than human. As they commit acts of evil and chaos, they attract attention from their infernal patrons, being rewarded with "gifts". These range from supernatural powers to grotesque, if useful, physical mutations. The lucky ones will be transformed into creatures called "Daemon Princes"; immortal Outsiders of the darkness. Most will fall by the wayside, while the unlucky will be transformed into gibbering mindless horrors called Chaos Spawn.
I'm not really the best at summing up though; try searching "Warhammer" at Wikipedia to get a far more detailed description.
My main problem with the NPC I mentioned was, in addition to my fears the idea would be overpowerful, devising exactly what I'd use him for. In fact, how would I use any Chaos Champion NPC in Ravenloft?
"Is there any word more meaningless than 'hope'? Besides 'blarfurgsnarg,' of course."
"Seek and Locate! Locate and Destroy! Destroy and Rejoice!"
"Seek and Locate! Locate and Destroy! Destroy and Rejoice!"
-
Rotipher of the FoS
- Thieving Crow
- Posts: 4683
- Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 4:18 pm
Sounds more "Goth" than "Gothic", if you ask me. There's such a thing as too dark for Gothic, y'know....Hell_Born wrote:For the curious: Warhammer is a setting on a renaissance (I think) level world of Gothic Fantasy....
"Who [u]cares[/u] what the Dark Powers are? They're [i]bastards![/i] That's all I need to know of them." -- Crow
-
Gemathustra
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 578
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:31 pm
- Location: The Cleft of Dimensions
Is that when you find yourself applying your black mascara with a trowel?Rotipher wrote:Sounds more "Goth" than "Gothic", if you ask me. There's such a thing as too dark for Gothic, y'know....Hell_Born wrote:For the curious: Warhammer is a setting on a renaissance (I think) level world of Gothic Fantasy....
"Arrogant mortal! You are in my world now and you will never leave this attic alive! I will destroy you, and then I will possess she whom you love the most. And there is not a single thing in the world you can do to stop me!"
*poke*
"OW!"
-Dracula
*poke*
"OW!"
-Dracula
I did warn you that I couldn't really describe the setting very well. Check this link out for a better description:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_Fantasy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_Fantasy
"Is there any word more meaningless than 'hope'? Besides 'blarfurgsnarg,' of course."
"Seek and Locate! Locate and Destroy! Destroy and Rejoice!"
"Seek and Locate! Locate and Destroy! Destroy and Rejoice!"
-
Rotipher of the FoS
- Thieving Crow
- Posts: 4683
- Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 4:18 pm
No, that would be "too pathetic for Gothic", not too dark.Gemathustra wrote:Is that when you find yourself applying your black mascara with a trowel?Rotipher wrote:Sounds more "Goth" than "Gothic", if you ask me. There's such a thing as too dark for Gothic, y'know....Hell_Born wrote:For the curious: Warhammer is a setting on a renaissance (I think) level world of Gothic Fantasy....
"Who [u]cares[/u] what the Dark Powers are? They're [i]bastards![/i] That's all I need to know of them." -- Crow
Okay, I think a brief explanation of the base scenario is in order...
The Chaos Champion is a villain NPC who was, for some reason or other, dragged to Ravenloft by those ever-so-fun Mists. Now stranded in Ravenloft, it goes about its usual business whilst trying to understand this strange new land. No Daemon summoning is planned, and I doubt I'd allow it, what with the Mists and all. So far, these are the only "motives" I can come up with for a Champion, and elaborating these into something suitably gothic is where I'm stuck.
Khorne: this is hardest, given that these guys are blood-soaked killers and there's essentially no room for homicidal maniacs in Ravenloft. The only "schticks" I can come up with are:
A warrior clad in red & bronze armour is "besieging" a trade route, challenging all who pass to a duel. He's honourable, in that those that duel him and survive are allowed to pass on unmolested, but those that refuse to fight, or who lack sufficient skill, end up dead.
A grisly "manhunter" stalks the backwoods of some out-of-the-way place, hunting down sentient victims to make meals/trophies out of them.
A psychopathic assassin comes to a city and begins a wanton spree of killings. The watch are baffled as he somehow manages to sneak into even the most heavily defended places to slay his chosen victim, and he doesn't even steal anything.
Tzeentch:
A mysterious "prophet" begins spreading a strange new religion, one which preaches either social change or which is directed towards Calibans- telling them that their deformities actually mark them as being special individuals. In the former case, he creates riots and social chaos, in the latter case he begins assembling an army of deformed humanoids for some unknown goal.
The Champion "breaks into" an asylum and either drives out, slays or imprisons the staff whilst releasing the inmates as his new "retinue". He then begins experimenting upon all those within the asylum, using a mixture of corruptive spells and vile alchemical concoctions to mutate his victims into more "pleasing" forms. He then begins directing this army of insane Aberrations against the nearby countryside, kidnapping new victims for his experiments.
Nurgle and Slaanesh: I got nothing. The former would be about spreading plagues and pestilence, the latter about seduction and enthrallment. Neither of which really has a place in Gothic rpging, does it?
The Chaos Champion is a villain NPC who was, for some reason or other, dragged to Ravenloft by those ever-so-fun Mists. Now stranded in Ravenloft, it goes about its usual business whilst trying to understand this strange new land. No Daemon summoning is planned, and I doubt I'd allow it, what with the Mists and all. So far, these are the only "motives" I can come up with for a Champion, and elaborating these into something suitably gothic is where I'm stuck.
Khorne: this is hardest, given that these guys are blood-soaked killers and there's essentially no room for homicidal maniacs in Ravenloft. The only "schticks" I can come up with are:
A warrior clad in red & bronze armour is "besieging" a trade route, challenging all who pass to a duel. He's honourable, in that those that duel him and survive are allowed to pass on unmolested, but those that refuse to fight, or who lack sufficient skill, end up dead.
A grisly "manhunter" stalks the backwoods of some out-of-the-way place, hunting down sentient victims to make meals/trophies out of them.
A psychopathic assassin comes to a city and begins a wanton spree of killings. The watch are baffled as he somehow manages to sneak into even the most heavily defended places to slay his chosen victim, and he doesn't even steal anything.
Tzeentch:
A mysterious "prophet" begins spreading a strange new religion, one which preaches either social change or which is directed towards Calibans- telling them that their deformities actually mark them as being special individuals. In the former case, he creates riots and social chaos, in the latter case he begins assembling an army of deformed humanoids for some unknown goal.
The Champion "breaks into" an asylum and either drives out, slays or imprisons the staff whilst releasing the inmates as his new "retinue". He then begins experimenting upon all those within the asylum, using a mixture of corruptive spells and vile alchemical concoctions to mutate his victims into more "pleasing" forms. He then begins directing this army of insane Aberrations against the nearby countryside, kidnapping new victims for his experiments.
Nurgle and Slaanesh: I got nothing. The former would be about spreading plagues and pestilence, the latter about seduction and enthrallment. Neither of which really has a place in Gothic rpging, does it?
"Is there any word more meaningless than 'hope'? Besides 'blarfurgsnarg,' of course."
"Seek and Locate! Locate and Destroy! Destroy and Rejoice!"
"Seek and Locate! Locate and Destroy! Destroy and Rejoice!"
As I said the 'concept' of the gods and what they stand for is easy to transplant. Your ideas aren't half-bad :p
It's the big war-gear that would have Drakov on his knees, and inventions that go waaaay over even Mordenheims head, powerful magic that would have Azalin weep in a corner and all that.
One character, adapted to DnD rules (not WHD20.. the entire setting is on steroids compared with other d20 games) might work, but overall they two setttings still seem incompatible.
It's the big war-gear that would have Drakov on his knees, and inventions that go waaaay over even Mordenheims head, powerful magic that would have Azalin weep in a corner and all that.
One character, adapted to DnD rules (not WHD20.. the entire setting is on steroids compared with other d20 games) might work, but overall they two setttings still seem incompatible.
What wargear? What inventions? I'm talking about Warhammer FANTASY, not Warhammer 40000. People tend to get those mixed up though... 40K is Gothic Science Fiction, Warhammer Fantasy is Gothic Fantasy. The most advanced technology in WF is the blackpowder flintlock pistol- something that Ravenloft PCs can purchase. At least, I think blackpowder weapons exist in Ravenloft...
I agree the spells can be somewhat over-the-top, but under the system we're using, each time you cast a spell you're losing 1D20*(Spell Level) mana. And wizards only get 2D6 mana to start with, +1D6 mana per each level. Given that dropping to zero mana causes the spell to fail, and the miscasts can be really nasty, random spell-slinging isn't something these guys are gonna do. Not to mention the only spellcaster is the Tzeentch Champion anyway.
I agree the spells can be somewhat over-the-top, but under the system we're using, each time you cast a spell you're losing 1D20*(Spell Level) mana. And wizards only get 2D6 mana to start with, +1D6 mana per each level. Given that dropping to zero mana causes the spell to fail, and the miscasts can be really nasty, random spell-slinging isn't something these guys are gonna do. Not to mention the only spellcaster is the Tzeentch Champion anyway.
"Is there any word more meaningless than 'hope'? Besides 'blarfurgsnarg,' of course."
"Seek and Locate! Locate and Destroy! Destroy and Rejoice!"
"Seek and Locate! Locate and Destroy! Destroy and Rejoice!"
-
Malus Black
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 301
- Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 2:43 am
- Location: Norway
I'd say that is something of an understatement. There is a vast amount of bizarre and colossal machinery and war machines in the Warhammer universe. Skaven doomwheels, warpstone guns and lightning cannons, dwarf gyrocopters and all their blackpowdery goodness, not to mention the Empire steam tank, which incidentally is just what they could fit on a battlefield without seriously unbalancing the game; storywise, the Empire has mechanical menageries, armored gunships and steam-driven castles.Hell_Born wrote:What wargear? What inventions? I'm talking about Warhammer FANTASY, not Warhammer 40000. People tend to get those mixed up though... 40K is Gothic Science Fiction, Warhammer Fantasy is Gothic Fantasy. The most advanced technology in WF is the blackpowder flintlock pistol- something that Ravenloft PCs can purchase. At least, I think blackpowder weapons exist in Ravenloft...
Not that it's much of a problem, since you're not porting the entire setting into Ravenloft or anything, but it bears mentioning that Warhammer characters have access to much more than flintlock pistols.
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream
-Edgar Allan Poe
Is but a dream within a dream
-Edgar Allan Poe
Hmm... I have some rather rough ideas for three "Transplanted" Chaos Champion NPCs. If I post the "fluff" here (the "crunch" -the rules- aren't finished yet), perhaps people could suggest ways on how to use them in Ravenloft?
The Bloodmistress
Female Human Rogue 6/Chaos Champion (Khorne) 3
Concept:
The Bloodmistress is far from the usual idea of a Khornate Champion- her way is not of frothing battlerage, no, her path is of silent, stealthy killings. Once a petty thief who called upon Khorne to grant her the strength to avenge herself, now she is a silent and deadly killer against whom no lock will hold nor fastened portal bar. Or so it is said.
Details:
The Bloodmistress has receive 1 mutation and 2 Gifts of Khorne. Her mutation is Iron Hard Scales; her entire skin has been replaced with snake-like scales of black iron rimmed in brass. She normally dresses herself entirely in black cloth to disguise this, but they grant such protection she rarely bothers with conventional armour. Her gifts consist of a pair of Chaos Weapons, both +1 Daggers. Red Thirst has the Wounding (DC12) and Vampiric Regeneration (1) qualities. Slaughtersong has the Screaming quality (when unsheathed, contantly emits a fear-inducing howl- does not affect the Bloodmistress).
Bonesmith
Male Human Wizard (Necromancy) 5/Chaos Champion (Tzeentch) 3
Concept:
The Bonesmith began as a typical Necromancer, using his black arts to instill life into the bodies of the dead. However, he had a very prominent "inventive" streak, always experimenting with altering and modifying his creations through surgery, twisted alchemy and magic. Coupled with his unusual personal belief in a "modified" cycle of life (life to death to undeath), it wasn't long before he came to the attention of Tzeentch. Now, he experiments in manipulating the flesh of living and undead alike, his powers allowing him to raise the corpses of those who failed to survive their transformation as obscene servitors.
Details:
The Bonesmith wears Chaos Armour and has three Gifts of Tzeentch. The first, Gift of Tongues, allows him to acquire the ability to speak any langauge after spending at least one full uninterrupted minute listening to a native speak that language. Secondly, he has the power to create Warpstone for use in his experiments- though the process is extremely draining (creating one ounce of Warpstone drains 150 XP and also causes 10+1D10 damage- the damage can be healed only through natural means). Finally, he has daemonic Wings that enable him to fly (normal rate for a Medium creature) with Average manoeuverability.
There was a third one, a "jester"-themed Champion of Nurgle, but I left him out because, well, he was horror by disgust- more splatter than Gothic.
The Bloodmistress
Female Human Rogue 6/Chaos Champion (Khorne) 3
Concept:
The Bloodmistress is far from the usual idea of a Khornate Champion- her way is not of frothing battlerage, no, her path is of silent, stealthy killings. Once a petty thief who called upon Khorne to grant her the strength to avenge herself, now she is a silent and deadly killer against whom no lock will hold nor fastened portal bar. Or so it is said.
Details:
The Bloodmistress has receive 1 mutation and 2 Gifts of Khorne. Her mutation is Iron Hard Scales; her entire skin has been replaced with snake-like scales of black iron rimmed in brass. She normally dresses herself entirely in black cloth to disguise this, but they grant such protection she rarely bothers with conventional armour. Her gifts consist of a pair of Chaos Weapons, both +1 Daggers. Red Thirst has the Wounding (DC12) and Vampiric Regeneration (1) qualities. Slaughtersong has the Screaming quality (when unsheathed, contantly emits a fear-inducing howl- does not affect the Bloodmistress).
Bonesmith
Male Human Wizard (Necromancy) 5/Chaos Champion (Tzeentch) 3
Concept:
The Bonesmith began as a typical Necromancer, using his black arts to instill life into the bodies of the dead. However, he had a very prominent "inventive" streak, always experimenting with altering and modifying his creations through surgery, twisted alchemy and magic. Coupled with his unusual personal belief in a "modified" cycle of life (life to death to undeath), it wasn't long before he came to the attention of Tzeentch. Now, he experiments in manipulating the flesh of living and undead alike, his powers allowing him to raise the corpses of those who failed to survive their transformation as obscene servitors.
Details:
The Bonesmith wears Chaos Armour and has three Gifts of Tzeentch. The first, Gift of Tongues, allows him to acquire the ability to speak any langauge after spending at least one full uninterrupted minute listening to a native speak that language. Secondly, he has the power to create Warpstone for use in his experiments- though the process is extremely draining (creating one ounce of Warpstone drains 150 XP and also causes 10+1D10 damage- the damage can be healed only through natural means). Finally, he has daemonic Wings that enable him to fly (normal rate for a Medium creature) with Average manoeuverability.
There was a third one, a "jester"-themed Champion of Nurgle, but I left him out because, well, he was horror by disgust- more splatter than Gothic.
"Is there any word more meaningless than 'hope'? Besides 'blarfurgsnarg,' of course."
"Seek and Locate! Locate and Destroy! Destroy and Rejoice!"
"Seek and Locate! Locate and Destroy! Destroy and Rejoice!"