Paladin In RL ?

[Korath]

Again ty for all the opinions. I did the power check and he failed, so there is no going back on that. The Paladin had his horse trample the evil npc so it wasn't the horses doing. I'm really glad the Paladin killed the evil npc. I wanted to see the response of the party to something horrible and the Paladin acted. I'm glad someone did something.

I will put the Paladin on the " path of the brute. " I'm not going to take any charisma away. He'll be stronger and a little creepier looking, that's it. What I want to get out of this is for my party to dig a little deaper into why evil people act the way they do. I don't want them to just be a " hack and slash " type party. Like others have posted, maybe there is an outside influence as to why this person is evil, being possessed etc. Since the evil npc posed no apparent threat, maybe the Paladin should have held back a bit and tried to find out a little more about this person? Maybe he would give clues to a more evil entity?

[Jack of Tears]

>>The Paladin had his horse trample the evil npc so it wasn't the horses doing.<<


Well, the horse thing was only one of three or four ideas posted, but it's your game, so if you feel the brute approach works, go with it.


>>Like others have posted, maybe there is an outside influence as to why this person is evil, being possessed etc. <<


As a paladin my response to this suggestion would be "Then I freed his tortured soul."

It is important to make your group think about motivations and the potential for deeper mysteries, but I can't imagine any character stopping to question this man. What you may consider doing is having the party later run into the creature or individual (preferably an individual - as humans are the best monsters in RL) responsible for driving the maddman to the act. (either through magic, or better still, by simply driving the man insane and then releasing him on an innocent countryside) This might then cause the party to reflect on the previous incodent and feel remorse for the man, who was himself a victim.

[Pamela]

Since the evil npc posed no apparent threat, maybe the Paladin should have held back a bit and tried to find out a little more about this person?

No apparent threat to the party...but what about the rest of the community's children? It would seem clear that this guy is likely the type to go after those he can easily beat up, not a group of armed adults. You've portrayed him as a child-killer, not a homicidal maniac.

I'm a bit concerned about whether you are rationalising things after the attack. Was the man possessed in your original plans? Was there any reason for your party to think that this guy could have been possessed? Have there been reports in the area of child-murders/disappearances going back years/decades, or is this just one case out of the blue? If there wasn't, it doesn't seem right to add a rationale after the fact for this man's actions.

[HuManBing]

I agree with the posters who said the paladin should be given enough of a scare to make him think twice, rather than to severely punish him. Perhaps it's enough to give him a +2 to Strength only in the midst of battle, but then make it so his warhorse displays some scary behavior, such as biting or otherwise mauling an enemy. The paladin may lose control of his mount - a frightening thought in the middle of combat - and then need to find the reason why, and how to atone for it. That could be a good adventure in itself.

The paladin's actions were "grey" enough that you should not hammer him. But if you just give him a flat out +2 to Strength with no mitigating disadvantages, you're essentially giving him a reward for morally dubious behavior.

How do you want the paladin to behave in future? Do you want him to continue being the law and the executioner, as paladins usually are in Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk campaigns? Or do you want the paladin to be more of a sheriff who only captures the wrongdoers, and submits them to a jury or other rule of law?

Maybe the killer had kids of his own to support, or a wife, or others who depended on him. Although he himself was clearly a bad sort, it's not a given that the people he's helping will be bad too. Maybe the killer was abused as a child by adults, who are still out there and causing more mischief.

Adding these layers of grey and cause and effect is usually enough to ensure the PCs think twice before they draw their swords. Don't be heavy handed, but I do think it's a great way of making Ravenloft stand out from the generic campaign settings. It is literally not easy to be good all the time, because here every silver lining has a cloud to it... and those will come back to haunt you in the future.

[wolfgang_fener]

As a senior DM I can say that not only it is ok for a DM to build additional details in a story after the facts but it is a great way to develop a campaign, adding the tiles in front of the PCs as they proceed.

It is not possible for a DM to plan everything in advance simply because you don't always know what the players will do. The only golden rule here is to do it in a way that will let your players believe everything was perfectly planed like clockwork from day 1.

This particular event is a perfect exmple of an almost random enconter coupled with a random dice roll that could very well be developped into a major campaign hook and event. I could build a whole epic campaign starting with this.

What is important here is not the exact effect of the failed power check on the paladin but the background of this children roasting npc. A good dose of horror could be injected in the game by letting the pcs discover the horrible story of this NPC. This could really lead to something big.

Who knows, maybe the child was a vampire or some kind of horrible witch and the bad guy was in fact a good guy ! Maybe not, maybe her ghost could now become an interesting npc leading the party to discover the horrible truth about her killer. IT could become a ghost setting things on fire every X nights or seeking revenge on the whole village or whatever.

Of secondary importance is the exact faith of the Paladin. The effect of the power check should be adjusted according to which god is worshipped by this fanatic holy warrior.

You should also take a decision about the effect of gods inside RL. If gods have absolutely no effect and the DP controls everything (which is not absolutely true in my own game), then the paladin could even be rewarded while the DP tries to corrupt him.

In my own game, greater gods still retain some powers over what's happening in RL. They can't change the RL natural rules but they still can send spells to some important and extremely faithful worshipers (PC clerics who show very good role playing of their faith for exemple or some rare and major NPCs). Since I started my game from forgotten realms, Cyric is now presiding on the great council of darkness (he is one of the dark powers). The cleric in my game is a cleric of Mystra so it is safe to assume she sent him there on purpose to counteract some dark plans of her #1 enemy. Of course the players/PCs should remain clueless about those details, otherwise that would ruin a good source of horror.

We are always more affraid of what we don't know or understand...


Anyway, good luck with your game, you sure can develop it in many directions. Let us know about your choices, I'm curious !

[Undead Cabbage]

Ah, the Deontologist v.s. Utilitarian problem: can the ends ever forgive the means, or vice versa?

I'm on the side of the majority here: Don't punish the Paladin. It was a tough call. Instead, use it as something to test him on. Time and pressure will tell whether the Paladin's actions were just, or simply out of rage.

Now, what's equally important as the powers check itself is how the Paladin makes up for it. The Paladin's redemption should be discretion: if the Paladin restrains himself from killing someone twice more in the future, instead using an option that does not result in death, he's off the hook. I think that if he does this, it will prove that his ill-fated failed PC was more a matter of circumstance than a malicious personality.

In short, take this strange occurance and turn it into an opportunity. Test the Paladin with the greatest test of all: time and pressure.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I will put the Paladin on the " path of the brute. " I'm not going to take any charisma away. He'll be stronger and a little creepier looking, that's it.

Note that the 3e RCS / 3.5e RLPH have a perfect mechanic for this. Increase his OR (outcast rating.) That will affect his reaction from other people, but not his spellcasting and the like, based on CHA.