Batman Begins

[VAN]

How is it possible for all of you to have just seen the film, for what I know it came out only Friday!

[Catman Jim]

Quite often in the US, movie theaters can offer 'advance showings' of new releases, in the case of BB, some theaters began showing it on last Wednesday. My kids took me to see it on Sunday for Father's Day (semi-holiday in the US), I liked everything in it except the "Katie Holmes gratutitous see-through blouse scene" in the last 5 minutes of the movie.

[frandelgearslip]

The movie officially opened on wednesday in the U.S. (It wasn't advanced screenings).

Even though katie holmes is actually a couple of years older than me the see through blouse creeped me out because she doesn't look a day over 12.

[Drinnik Shoehorn]

From what I've heard, Nolan actually planned it to be a trilogy, with the second one revolving around the Joker and the third one revolving around Two-Face (which has led to a lot of speculation about Harvey Dent being a major good character in the second one who gets turned into Two-Face by the Joker, or something). Could be neat. Sequels usually aren't bad if they're planned from the beginning.

David--I didn't want to post any spoilers either, but I couldn't think of how to make my point without blowing the whole thing.

If this is true, I want Mark Hamill to play the Joker and either Mekhi Phiffer, or if he's too young, Denzel Washington, to play Two-Face.

[Rucht Lilavivat]

Here's what I think:

The best superhero movie I've seen thus far. I like the original Batman, but it is a bit dated. Even with Jack Nicholson's outstanding role.

The movies I'm ranking it up there with are The Incredibles, the original Superman, and Unbreakable, which is now a very, very close second for me in terms of "best superhero movie."

The reasons I liked it (no spoilers):
Very good acting - How good? Some of the dialogue I noticed was pretty awful, but great directing and spot-on acting makes you forget it.
Every character is important: Alfred is normally a sort of throw-away role. In this movie he has a huge role. The heroine has a major role. Heck, even the guy who invents the batmobile has a huge role. No character is wasted.
Very internally consistent: Everything in the movie exists for a reason. There's a reason for the batsuit. There's a reason for Scarecrow's mask. There's even a reason for the blades on Batman's armguards. Heck even the blue flower is there for a reason.

P.S. I didn't find the movie campy at all, considering that it's an action movie. With any action movie, you have to have a certain level of disbelief. Batman Begins certainly less campy than any action movie that I have seen this summer so far.

[ScS of the Fraternity]

I find that Batman Begins was a fine movie marred by a number of mistakes.

Christian Bale played a very good Bruce Wayne - kudos
But he sucked as Batman. I mean what was going on with the voice? Did he catch a cold? Was he going through puberty? Chewing gravel?

Speaking of voices, Cain as Alfred might have been a great idea, if it weren't for that hideous accent. It was the same damn accent from Austin Powers III! One might have hoped that an actor of Cain's caliber would be familiar with a butler's diction. But instead of the smooth, prefect king's english, we get a brutal cockney accent.
"G'day master Wayne, shine your shoes, gov'nr? Clean your chimny sweep? Fancy a butchr's? The rain in spain...."
At least he got Alfred's dry sense of wit.

As for the scarecrow, I wonder if it was wise to cast an actor who would be scarrier with the mask off. The moment he puts on his little potato sack its like:
"What a jackass. Hey, sack head, where'd the spooky little guy go? He's not behind me, is he? I mean, did you see those eyes?"

[AdamGarou]

If this is true, I want Mark Hamill to play the Joker and either Mekhi Phiffer, or if he's too young, Denzel Washington, to play Two-Face.

[sarcasm] Hmm... well, it'd be tough to find anyone to match Tommy Lee Jones' heart-wrenching portrayal of the tragically disfigured district attorney, but Denzel could dig deep and surprise us... [/sarcasm]

Of the two you mentioned, I'd prefer to see Mekhi Phiffer--I didn't really think he could act too well from the few episodes of "ER" I've seen, but he did a fair job in "O" (the Othello remake with Josh Hartnett and Julia Stiles), so he could probably pull it off. Plus, I like the idea of the more of the cast being younger--I think Christian Bale is only about 30, same for Cillian Murphy.

And immediately after making that statement, I have to pull a 180 and say I think Mark Hamil would be AWESOME as the Joker. He obviously has the voice down (from his work on the animated series), and his face just strikes me as "right" for the role... easily twisted into the Joker's perpetual homicidal grin.

Unfortunately, in my head I'm also already hearing comments like...

"Aren't you a little... short... for an archnemesis?" *groan*

[Gemathustra]

Unfortunately, in my head I'm also already hearing comments like...

"Aren't you a little... short... for an archnemesis?" *groan*

He could always wear elevator shoes.

[Jester of the FoS]

Christian Bale played a very good Bruce Wayne - kudos
But he sucked as Batman. I mean what was going on with the voice? Did he catch a cold? Was he going through puberty? Chewing gravel?

That's the standard Batman scary voice. I liked it, inhuman and dark. Conroy who did the Batman cartoon did a similar thing, but as a voice actor he's slightly more talented.

Speaking of voices, Cain as Alfred might have been a great idea, if it weren't for that hideous accent. It was the same damn accent from Austin Powers III! One might have hoped that an actor of Cain's caliber would be familiar with a butler's diction. But instead of the smooth, prefect king's english, we get a brutal cockney accent.
"G'day master Wayne, shine your shoes, gov'nr? Clean your chimny sweep? Fancy a butchr's? The rain in spain...."
At least he got Alfred's dry sense of with

Yeah... but that's what you get when you hire Cain. He's gone on record as wanting to be the first cockney actor to never change his accent. It's actually a signature trait. He only really feigned a different accent a couple of time in his early roles before he decided to never do it again. IIRC one of them was Zulu but I could be mistaken. He's proud of his accent and heritage and doesn't believe he needs to cover it over every role to be a more stereotypicaly British.

Mark Hammil as the Joker. That would rule. Never happen though. It would please the fans of the cartoon and the comic fans but the remaining 90% of the movie audience would go "who?!" And when they were told they'd say "Luke as the Joker! HA!" and dismiss it.
Never get past the studio heads.

[Rucht Lilavivat]

I find that Batman Begins was a fine movie marred by a number of mistakes.

I agree with your criticisms, ScS, but...I think those things were were minor points for me compared to the movie as a whole.

The movie, in my mind, simply worked far better than most popcorn fare. Compare Batman Begins, for example, to Mr. and Mrs. Smith. Or anything that came out this or last summer.

[Brandi]

Michael Caine had an interesting rationale for why his Alfred sounds like he does:

"I do a backstory, and the backstory on the butler is, he was a sergeant in the British Special Services. Very tough, got wounded, got put in charge of the sergeant's mess or canteen. Therefore, he knew how to do drinks and serve and do that. He was seen by the father of Bruce Wayne, who said come and be my butler. Sort of butler-bodyguard. So I played him as that, and the voice was the voice of my sergeant when I first joined the British Army. And he looks like he's more active than a butler's ever been. I wanted him to look like a man of action who's a bit too old to do it professionally, but if push came to shove, he could take care of himself."

A lot of people discussing the film on another board had the interesting assumption that Alf was an especially successful reformee of Thomas Wayne.

[Jester of the FoS]

Well, Alfred's comic/cartoon backstory had him as a soldier/spy for England.

[JinnTolser]

I like the idea of Mark Hamill playing the Joker as well, because he did a fantastic job with the cartoon, but sadly it won't happen. He's been pigeonholed as Luke Skywalker, and pretty much everything he's done since then has been either guest appearances related to that (like his guest starring on Third Rock From the Sun), or voices for animated shows and video games (which he's done a lot more of than I realized).

[AdamGarou]

I like the idea of Mark Hamill playing the Joker as well, because he did a fantastic job with the cartoon, but sadly it won't happen. He's been pigeonholed as Luke Skywalker, and pretty much everything he's done since then has been either guest appearances related to that (like his guest starring on Third Rock From the Sun), or voices for animated shows and video games (which he's done a lot more of than I realized).

All right, could be. So, does everyone think they'll revisit the Joker character at all? Or will they stay away from it, thinking no one will top Nicholson's performance (which I have to admit, overshadowed Michael Keaton's Batman in the first movie)?

If they're going with the Joker as the villain (or one of them) for sure in the sequel, then who do you think will play him? At the moment, I'm blanking on the possibilities...

[Brandi]

All right, could be. So, does everyone think they'll revisit the Joker character at all?

Considering the setup at the end of the film and repeated reports that two more films are in fact planned, with the Joker in the 2nd and Two-Face in the 3rd, I'd say yes.

Rumors have been all over the place for who would be the Joker but have included Crispin Glover, Steve Buscemi, and someone named Lachy Hulme who was apparently in one of the Matrix movies.