The God Brain is back...

[Wiccy of the Fraternity]

Yes

Sigh. No, that's not what it says.

Yes, in fact it is. Someone else already beat me to QUOTING IT EXACTLY OUT OF THE TEXT, and CITING THE PAGE. God, thats freakin' hillarious.

Actually, the exact wording is:

More than anything, the God Brain desires experiences - to move; to breathe; to truly live.

It says nothing about emotions and feelings.

[Gemathustra]

Actually, the exact wording is:

More than anything, the God Brain desires experiences - to move; to breathe; to truly live.

It says nothing about emotions and feelings.

Still, emotions and feelings are part and parcel of being "alive."
How can one be "alive," and have no emotion?
How can one be "alive," and not feel anything?
Those who are clinically alive, but who have stunted emotional growth and or lack empathy are offered described with the oft-used saw/axiom "being dead on the inside," after all.

[The_God_Brain]

It says nothing about emotions and feelings.

No, it doesn't say emotions and feelings. It does imply them, however since experiences include feelings and emotions.

But, that wasn't what we were talking about. In any event...it does not matter. My interpretation of The God Brain invalidates this one. Whether or not people personally like this one or mine is fully up to them. I humbly submit my interpretation of The God Brain and the Illithid in Ravenloft as an alternative approach to using Mind Flayers in the Demiplane of Dread.

[Wiccy of the Fraternity]

Still, emotions and feelings are part and parcel of being "alive."
How can one be "alive," and have no emotion?
How can one be "alive," and not feel anything?
Those who are clinically alive, but who have stunted emotional growth and or lack empathy are offered described with the oft-used saw/axiom "being dead on the inside," after all.

You need to meet more people with manic depression when they aren't taking their meds, they can be emotionally hollow. One of my best friends was in this state for the better part of a year, during that time he had no emotion at all, except on rare occasion when he got anxious about something.

Your analysis works well for humans, but an Illithid Gob Brain is an entirely different kettle of fish, I see them and beings that have either no emotion and being a cold calculating intelligence, or something with emotions that work solely on a level far beyond our ken, making them emotionless to us.

[Gemathustra]

Your analysis works well for humans, but an Illithid Gob Brain is an entirely different kettle of fish, I see them and beings that have either no emotion and being a cold calculating intelligence, or something with emotions that work solely on a level far beyond our ken, making them emotionless to us.

Then why is it that one of the ghost examples in Libris Mortis is the ghost of a poor schmuck of an exiled illithid who pined away from wishing to eat the brain of a sentient being one last time, then?

[The_God_Brain]

Your analysis works well for humans, but an Illithid Gob Brain is an entirely different kettle of fish, I see them and beings that have either no emotion and being a cold calculating intelligence, or something with emotions that work solely on a level far beyond our ken, making them emotionless to us.

You make a valid point about the "emotions" of Illithid. In fact, Illithid emotional states are so alien in comparison to other sentient races that they barely even consider other beings above animals. This isn't simply a matter of intelligence either. Illthid are almost incapable of feeling sympathy for humans (and the other thrall races) simply because they don't really have the same concept of sympathy...if any at all.

But as I've said...it really isn't that important. I am not using the "God Brain wants to know what its like to be a person" bit for my alternative, non-cannon explanation of Bluetspur. If people really like that, then they probably won't be all that happy with my explanation. But, thats how it goes.

[Gemathustra]

On the other hand, how can we be sure that the God Brain's curse is that it has some lousy song stuck in its head?
Once I had "Heya" from Outkast stuck in my head, and let me tell you, at the end of the day, I was practically foaming at the mouth.

[The Nightmare Man]

What if the GB WAS mostly in the Astrial at the time of domain contruction and when Bultespur was created the main part of his inteligance was severed and lost the the Astrial winds.

Arrgh! I shudder to think where that severed God-Brain consciousness might have ended up... Merging with a floating god-isle remnant perhaps...

[The Nightmare Man]

Your analysis works well for humans, but an Illithid Gob Brain is an entirely different kettle of fish, I see them and beings that have either no emotion and being a cold calculating intelligence, or something with emotions that work solely on a level far beyond our ken, making them emotionless to us.

I don't think so.

It's a well known fact now, that the illithids originated in the Far Realm, however, what is rarely considered is that the illithids have spent so long in our reality, that they've now completely adapted to it. The Far Realm would be just as alien to them now, as it is to mere mortals in our multiverse.

So while they may appear "cold and emotionless", it has less to do with their actual origin as entities of madness and more to do with simply seeing themselves as superior to all other forms of life. In my view, the illithids have become far too comfortable in their relative positions of power across the multiverse. And it's this confidence and pride in their own superiority that probably allowed Gith and the Forerunners to make such progress in the early days of the rebellion when the Illithid Empire first collapsed.

[Igor the Henchman]

It's a well known fact now, that the illithids originated in the Far Realm

Hmm... that written somewhere? I don't keep up with all the current D&D releases, but I was under the impression that the Far Realm was an optional plane that had no place in the Great Wheel. The Manual of the Planes presented it as an example of new and original planes a creative DM might invent for his setting.

Besides, since 3E doesn't present any one cosmology as 'canon' (that I know of), the number of planes and the origin of illithids can vary from game to game.

[The_God_Brain]

It's a well known fact now, that the illithids originated in the Far Realm,

Eh, that is hinted at in The Illithiad, but not confirmed. In fact, it is given as one of several possible senarios that account for the origin of the Illithid race. While it might make sense, its still far from a "well known fact".

As for their emotions...we never really said that Illithid don't have emotions. What we were implying was that illithid brains work in such a radically different way that their emotions are unrecognizable to us and as such seem emotionless. I think a better way to look at it is to compare thrall races to animals. The illithid probably think their emotions are more sophisticated and advanced that those of the thrall races, much like we think our emotions are far more advanced and sophisticated than most animals. While just about any living creature can feel fear, not all of them can feel love, compassion, or hate. The illithid probably think (whether this is accurate or not, one cannot really say) that they experience emotions that thrall races cannot because they are so primitive and inferior.

[ScS of the Fraternity]

Agreed, Illithids are an extremely arrogant race and they would naturally believe that their own emotions to be a superior type. Illithids are described as possessing emotions, and I believe the Illithiad described them as possessing the full range - even compassion, albiet reserved for their favorite thralls.

In any case, I think its necessary to distinquish the minds of illithids from the mind of a God Brain. Though God Brains do come from the brains of illithids, it is necessary to point out that they are in fact two completly different beings. God Brains treat the illithids much as the illithids treat thralls - they lead them, manipulate them and even feed upon their brains. As I recall, God Brains perpetuate the myth that all illithid brains within its mass live forever, in a kind of after-life hive mind collective - while in fact the Brain merely devours the memories of the illithid and supresses its personality into nonexistance. Its highly doubtful that any illithid would chose to ener the God Brain if it knew what really awaited it.

[Wiccy of the Fraternity]

Makes you want to raise the question that perhaps the God Brain can no longer supress these personalities as completely as it once could? That would give it the motivation to want a fuller life as the RLDMG suggests.

[The_God_Brain]

In any case, I think its necessary to distinquish the minds of illithids from the mind of a God Brain. Though God Brains do come from the brains of illithids, it is necessary to point out that they are in fact two completly different beings. God Brains treat the illithids much as the illithids treat thralls - they lead them, manipulate them and even feed upon their brains. As I recall, God Brains perpetuate the myth that all illithid brains within its mass live forever, in a kind of after-life hive mind collective - while in fact the Brain merely devours the memories of the illithid and supresses its personality into nonexistance. Its highly doubtful that any illithid would chose to ener the God Brain if it knew what really awaited it.

There is only one God Brain. It is the Darklord of Bluetspur and the most powerful illithid master in existence short of Illsinsine, who is a GOD. All communities of illithid have an Elder Brain, which is actually what you are talking about.

As for choosing to enter the elder brain....the Illithid know that their personality perishes once they become part of the collective. They accept this as a high honor and most illithid look forward to it as their just reward for a life well lived. Remember that illithid value knowledge and power over everything else, even their own individuality. They do not consider their own distinctiveness as important or vital as most other races do.

Furthermore, the elder brain personality does change at least somewhat with each additional brain added to it, albeit only slightly. Just as our personalities change as we grown and learn new things, so too would an elder brain develope as the knowledge and experiences of the newly added illithid brains are melded into it.

[The Nightmare Man]

It's a well known fact now, that the illithids originated in the Far Realm

Hmm... that written somewhere?

... Not in so many words... However the FF doesn't make a secret of the fact that similar creatures like mind flayers come from the Realm Outside.

I don't keep up with all the current D&D releases, but I was under the impression that the Far Realm was an optional plane that had no place in the Great Wheel.

Simply put, the Far Realm exists at the beginning of creation, as well as it's end. It exists sideways of the reality we know and understand. It is outside of time, and it is outside of space. There is no conceptual basis for mortals to even begin to understand the nature of the Outside.

The Manual of the Planes presented it as an example of new and original planes a creative DM might invent for his setting.

Yeah, sorry about that . The PSer in me, like in most, sees the Far Realm as "actually" part of the PS cosmology.