Legacy of the Blood - use of it?

Charney · Post by **Charney** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:22 pm

I don't have the book yet but I already have a use for it. One of the PC's in my game is a Hiregaard. Since I don't know what's exactly his link to Tristen, the book will come in handy I'm sure. I plan on getting it when my wallet recovers from Xmas.

Stygian Inquirer · Post by **Stygian Inquirer** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:23 pm

I do not have the book yet either but I already have some interesting character backgrounds for my current campaign while still using prestigeous Ravenloft NPCs. If you don't mind I would love some feedback on one of the backgrounds I created.

A female human wizard is actually, unbeknownst to her of course, a daughter of The Gentleman Caller. Over time, she will discover that can hear people's thoughts (the detect thoughts at will spell-like ability of the incubus/succubus) and eventually other powers will make their appearances. Also at the same time, she will slowly be developing into a fiendish creature (as per transposition).

Tell me what you guys think.

DeepShadow of FoS · Post by **DeepShadow of FoS** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 1:18 am

Stygian Inquirer wrote:I do not have the book yet either but I already have some interesting character backgrounds for my current campaign while still using prestigeous Ravenloft NPCs. If you don't mind I would love some feedback on one of the backgrounds I created.

A female human wizard is actually, unbeknownst to her of course, a daughter of The Gentleman Caller. Over time, she will discover that can hear people's thoughts (the detect thoughts at will spell-like ability of the incubus/succubus) and eventually other powers will make their appearances. Also at the same time, she will slowly be developing into a fiendish creature (as per transposition).

Tell me what you guys think.

Is a PC? If so, seems a little drastic to send someone down the road to darkness just for being born. Why doesn't she have the Half-fiend template?

Catman Jim · Post by **Catman Jim** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:09 am

gonzoron wrote:I made the foolish choice of ordering LotB and Dark Tales & Disturbing Legends at the same time from Amazon and selecting free shipping.

Mine arrived last night, and is under the Christmas now.

Just 15 days to travel from their distribution center one state away.

Oh, well, I'm expecting that it will be my third favorite 'gift' that I will receive this year (behind what my wife & I will share tomorrow, and the plane tickets/guest house/car rental my dad arranged/paid for all four of us to visit him in Florida for ten days in February

)

Drinnik Shoehorn · Post by **Drinnik Shoehorn** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:18 pm

I plan to use it when I get a group. I'm planning on lulling my flatmates into a false sense of security by playing the D&D board game, then asking if they want to play actual D&D.

Stygian Inquirer · Post by **Stygian Inquirer** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:55 pm

DeepShadow wrote: Is a PC? If so, seems a little drastic to send someone down the road to darkness just for being born. Why doesn't she have the Half-fiend template?

What I am going to do is not make it a full blown transposition but it will be the awakening of her latent fiendish abilities instead of a fiend taking her place. It will also be the PC's choice whether to embrace her powers or seek to rid herself of them but she also will not be able to control them so she may seek control in an attempt to use them for good. Right now she wants to stay good and pure so I think that she will go for redemption.

Also you were mentioning the half-fiend template, if she embraces her powers or if she otherwise descends into evil, the half-fiend template will be added later. I suspect though that the character will seek redemption before that.

Thanks for your feedback.

tec-goblin · Post by **tec-goblin** » Sat Dec 25, 2004 3:04 pm

Well, I LOVED the book. Nice job. The PrCs take too much space, that's my only complaint (it's not bad, but most new rules in the book require at least 2 paragraphs each).
To the topic, now. My campaign is under way and most of the characters backgrounds already involve other noble families (What I mean "other noble families". Let's say, Aldana/Zepeda, Jaegermeister, Zidane de Dore - some are inspired by 7thSea), so I'll use the book only in the following ways:
1)I'll read it again and again, because it has lovely characters and my all time favorites: Gennifer and Laurie! Well, that doesn't affect the campaign, of course
2)I'll use the guidelines for nobles and the idead for noble mariages and relations to flesh out the Aldana, Zepeda and Dore families and to give roleplaying idead to the PCs.
3)I'll use the NPCs and families. Renier are already involved with the PCs, so this would be helpful. It would be very interesting to be hunted by a Dilisnya, or to anger a Drakov offspring (particularly when the PCs HATE Falkovnians and one has lost his family to Drakov's sadism).

I am still reading it, though. I am finishing the Dilisnyas right now.

Steve Miller · Post by **Steve Miller** » Sat Dec 25, 2004 3:48 pm

First off, thanks to everyone who is posting comments and thoughts about "Legacy of the Blood" and how they think it might be useful for their campaigns. This is very, very helpful for me... as I would like to see a follow-up volume. (I can't speak for Arthaus, but I've already got a ToC in mind for LoB Vol. 2, and it's going in front of the developers next month.)

And I think i'll go ahead and apologize for Amazon.com's irregularities in shipping. I appreciate the fact that several of you bought your LoBs through my website--and I still encourage you to do so, I like the percentage I get off the purchases you make!--but I feel a bit akward that some of you had to wait as long as you did. :/ )

A couple of questions/comments for tec-goblin...

tec-goblin wrote:Well, I LOVED the book. Nice job. The PrCs take too much space, that's my only complaint (it's not bad, but most new rules in the book require at least 2 paragraphs each).

As a designer who is constantly trying to improve his work, I'd like to know why you think it's a problem that the new rules take up "too much space." (And I think you're going to hate the Hiregaard family description... there's a madness defect that takes up a couple of pages!)

My guess is that the prestige classes you don't care for are all going to be ones from my keyboard. Is that you think the rules are too convoluted? That too many words are spent saying something that could have been said with fewer words? Or do you just not like rules material in general?

1)I'll read it again and again, because it has lovely characters and my all time favorites: Gennifer and Laurie! Well, that doesn't affect the campaign, of course

A shame the short stories featuring them ended up falling into the Mists when WotC pulled the plug on RL, eh? (Dave Gross in particular had one I thought was pretty keen in mind. Partly because it was based on a story idea I suggested.

)

I am still reading it, though. I am finishing the Dilisnyas right now.

I look forward to seeing any other additional comments you may have.

Igor the Henchman · Post by **Igor the Henchman** » Sat Dec 25, 2004 5:31 pm

I'm quite pleased with the book, it got me brainstorming for an aristocrat campaign set in RL. I too have some gripes with the PrCs, because they often either fill a role that is already filled (why is a people's champion needed when you have the paladin class?), cover a "niche" that can be filled with existing material (a recruiter can as well be a bard with a Perform(Oratory) skill maxed up), or could be turned into a couple of feats instead (all of Rumormonger's special abilities would work better as feats - for the rest, she's just an aritocrat specialized in the Bluff skill).

So, I probably won't use the PrCs. However, I see much use in the setting information. I think I'll go ahead and admit that Steve's parts of the book seem to be of superior quality (except for the Von Zaroviches- credits must be given to Anthony Prior). What I liked about Steve's families is that contrary to others, they present tendencies for their members - not personality straitjackets like the rest. Why must all Dilisnya be assassins for hire hiding under the guise of decadent nobles? Why must all Mordenheims be science-obsessed scholars? In my campaign, I'll tone this down, making variations from the norm more acceptable.

Another positive aspect of this book for me is its relying heavily on products that came before it. I think its the best Ravenloft product ever in that respect. Relevant parts of the Gazetteers and other previous products have been throughoutly studied and mastered before writing Legacies. I think the book goes to great lenghs to make Ravenloft a more consistent place.

That said, I spotted a couple inconsistencies with the Gazetteers. The Dilisnyas are said to be hunted down in Barovia, where Gaz1 states the barovians consider the family's crimes against their domain to be sufficiently paid off by Leo's execution. The Hiregaards are presented as valiant champions of the people and quite prosperous in terms of riches and lands, while Gaz5 says Sir Tristen's generosity is seen as bothersome by many in his family, since it results negatively on the family's coffers, putting the Hiregaard house at an economical disadvantage compaired to the four others. My campaign will probably seek to compromise the two visions.

As for how I will use the product, I cannot say, though I already see a political intrigue adventure set in Mortigny, with PCs getting a choice between playing a Renier, DuBois (two thumbs up for these, btw!), Boritsi or D'Honaire.

Steve Miller · Post by **Steve Miller** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 2:23 am

Igor the Henchman wrote:What I liked about Steve's families is that contrary to others, they present tendencies for their members - not personality straitjackets like the rest. Why must all Dilisnya be assassins for hire hiding under the guise of decadent nobles? Why must all Mordenheims be science-obsessed scholars? In my campaign, I'll tone this down, making variations from the norm more acceptable.

Some might say that my families are the one who are designed incorrectly. There are those who believe that D&D works best when it provides clear-cut, one-note game elements.

The Hiregaards are presented as valiant champions of the people and quite prosperous in terms of riches and lands, while Gaz5 says Sir Tristen's generosity is seen as bothersome by many in his family, since it results negatively on the family's coffers, putting the Hiregaard house at an economical disadvantage compaired to the four others.

I don't see how one contradicts the other.

As for how I will use the product, I cannot say, though I already see a political intrigue adventure set in Mortigny, with PCs getting a choice between playing a Renier, DuBois (two thumbs up for these, btw!), Boritsi or D'Honaire.

Possible starting point: Louise R. has gotten fed up with Richemulot again and is really truly going to move out of the nest this time. She's meeting with members of other leading families to line up some opportunities so nothing will go wrong this time.

Mortepierre · Post by **Mortepierre** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 3:21 am

Steve, a question about the Renier if I may?

I realize that Scholar of Decay - given its ending - has always been tricky to handle for RL authors but I wondered if you had it in mind when you wrote the Renier chapter?

I consider that novel to be one of the top-three best RL books (if only for its fantastic description of Richemulot) and was a bit irked by the fact that the current version of the game seems to blissfully ignore it as if it was non-canon.

Granted, the novel itself is ambiguous. Did Jacqueline kill Louise for her failed coup? No hard evidence but, given the darklord's personality, I think that's not the kind of mistake she would be inclined to forgive. Then again, witnessing how much magic can be an asset in a fight could explain why Louise is now desperate to increase her own innate magical abilities.

The most intriguing part by far is the fate of the Nuikin family. Dmitri could become a dedicated enemy of wererats, either hunting them down himself or using the family's fortune to hire others to do so. As for Aurek, I could see him becoming either mad with grief or - possibly - obsessed with restoring his wife and thus - again, possibly - going the road of the lich to have enough time to succeed.

Will the follow-up volume you have in mind concern darklord's families exclusively or is there a chance that (in)famous allies/enemies of the darklords could be included too?

Steve Miller · Post by **Steve Miller** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 5:57 am

Mortepierre wrote:Steve, a question about the Renier if I may?

I realize that Scholar of Decay - given its ending - has always been tricky to handle for RL authors but I wondered if you had it in mind when you wrote the Renier chapter?

Vaguely. I've never been shy about the fact that I tend to place low priority on the novels, except where they are VASTLY superior to what the RPG source material take on a character or place is. (Such as the "Dance of the Dead" Misroi vs. the stinky ugly zombie lord from the original take on him.)

I consider that novel to be one of the top-three best RL books (if only for its fantastic description of Richemulot) and was a bit irked by the fact that the current version of the game seems to blissfully ignore it as if it was non-canon.

Well, "Domains of Dread" established that Louise lived past the ending of "Scholar of Decay," so it's not just the current material. Frankly, i think she's too useful a campaign element to be whacked in a novel... that should happen in campaigns out there. (DoD placed "Scholar of Decay" in 735, which may be a bit early on the timeline, but it's long-standing evidence that Louise lived.)

I think what happened was that Jackie beat her to a pulp and tossed her in the river. Louise recovered, started one of her "I'm gonna blow this popstand for a nice house in Dementlieu" at which point Jackie begged and pleaded and offered the sky and the moon to make her stay. Loiuse thought, "Okay. She's still stupid. Maybe THIS time I can pull it off!" And so the cycle starts again...

Or maybe Jackie did very little to Louise, instead letting her live in fear of when vengeance would be delivered. And, again, Louise prepares to pull up stakes, Jackie says all if forgiven, and they're back at square one.

Jackie's monophobia is what keeps Louise alive, I think.

As for Aurek, I could see him becoming either mad with grief or - possibly - obsessed with restoring his wife and thus - again, possibly - going the road of the lich to have enough time to succeed.

BECOME mad? It's been a long, long time since I've read the book, but I seem to remember that he was already pretty unhinged.

Will the follow-up volume you have in mind concern darklord's families exclusively or is there a chance that (in)famous allies/enemies of the darklords could be included too?

There are a couple of non-darklord families in the proposal. (No details beyond that, because I don't want a "But Steve said that the Wescote family would be in the book!" I have not control over the line... I am just making proposals for books I think would be fun to do, and which I think many of you out there would enjoy.)

Wiccy of the Fraternity · Sun Dec 26, 2004 10:08 am

Steve Miller wrote:I have not control over the line... I am just making proposals for books I think would be fun to do, and which I think many of you out there would enjoy.)

How about proposing a book that would detail the various religions, their belief systems, practices, religious holidays, leading members and other things? I know I would love to see something like that in the Ravenloft line. While several books in the line have already begun to expand on the religions across the dread realms, those elements are still only the tip of the iceberg. Also, many smaller religions in the dread realms remain pretty much untouched and some domains have no mentioning of religious practice, something I am sorry to see

Mortepierre · Post by **Mortepierre** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 10:40 am

Steve Miller wrote:Well, "Domains of Dread" established that Louise lived past the ending of "Scholar of Decay," so it's not just the current material. Frankly, i think she's too useful a campaign element to be whacked in a novel... that should happen in campaigns out there. (DoD placed "Scholar of Decay" in 735, which may be a bit early on the timeline, but it's long-standing evidence that Louise lived.)

I think what happened was that Jackie beat her to a pulp and tossed her in the river. Louise recovered, started one of her "I'm gonna blow this popstand for a nice house in Dementlieu" at which point Jackie begged and pleaded and offered the sky and the moon to make her stay. Loiuse thought, "Okay. She's still stupid. Maybe THIS time I can pull it off!" And so the cycle starts again...

Or maybe Jackie did very little to Louise, instead letting her live in fear of when vengeance would be delivered. And, again, Louise prepares to pull up stakes, Jackie says all if forgiven, and they're back at square one.

Jackie's monophobia is what keeps Louise alive, I think.

True, a distinct possibility. By the way, it's not the fact that Louise is still alive that bothered me. I agree with you that she is the kind of villain that needs to 'stay around'.. for now.

Steve Miller wrote:BECOME mad? It's been a long, long time since I've read the book, but I seem to remember that he was already pretty unhinged.

I'll grant you he was already short a few marbles during the novel but nowhere near 'mad'. Obsessed, certainly. Failed Madness check(s)? Assuredly. Raving mad? No, not given the cold logic he displayed most of the time.

Steve Miller wrote:There are a couple of non-darklord families in the proposal. (No details beyond that, because I don't want a "But Steve said that the Wescote family would be in the book!" I have not control over the line... I am just making proposals for books I think would be fun to do, and which I think many of you out there would enjoy.)

Good to know! Thank you for the info

Rotipher of the FoS · Post by **Rotipher of the FoS** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:47 am

Igor the Henchman wrote:That said, I spotted a couple inconsistencies with the Gazetteers. The Dilisnyas are said to be hunted down in Barovia, where Gaz1 states the barovians consider the family's crimes against their domain to be sufficiently paid off by Leo's execution. The Hiregaards are presented as valiant champions of the people and quite prosperous in terms of riches and lands, while Gaz5 says Sir Tristen's generosity is seen as bothersome by many in his family, since it results negatively on the family's coffers, putting the Hiregaard house at an economical disadvantage compaired to the four others. My campaign will probably seek to compromise the two visions.

Perhaps Leo's execution paid off the Dilisnyas' *original* crime against the Von Zaroviches, namely their scheme to annihilate the family at Sergei's wedding. The current pogrom against Dilisnyas may relate to much more recent crimes on that faimly's part, and/or Strahd's efforts to simply keep the crime-family from establishing a power-base in Barovia (where the right to prey upon the populace is *his* alone).

The Hiregaard relations' criticism of Tristen's benevolence may not be generally known to the public, as the non-philanthropists of his bloodline probably find it convenient to be thought well of by the commoners (as it's easier to trick and cheat those who trust you!). The fact that the family has suffered economically from Tristen's largesse is probably something the Hiregaard clan keeps to itself; exposing your weaknesses isn't much of a survival strategy for nobles in general or Ravenlofters in particular.

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Legacy of the Blood - use of it?