Dread Companions..

[Trevorfrost]

Anyone else think its unfair that familiars and other companions of natives automatically become dread companions. (Also why they put that info right where the players can see it is beyond me.) What I personally do is give players a 50/50 chance of gettting a normal companion but don't tell them which type they have which can sometimes be even more nerve wracking...

[Jester of the FoS]

Dread Familiars are a darn sight better than the psuedo-familiars of 2E that were pure evil.
Dread Familiars are 'evil' but they're not out to harm their master, they simply act on their own.
It's not "unfair", not anymore than power checks or other facts of life in the Land of the Mists. And if players know about them (and Darklords, modified spells and other such things they will know their familairs can't be left alone).

It encourages players to keep an eye on their companions and not turn their backs on them; at least they can be trusted, they will never betray their masters. Just requires caution.

[Wiccy of the Fraternity]

Think of it in this context. A sorcerer has a lovely little tabby as a companion, this tabby likes everyone, but has a mean streak against the sorcerer himself. It will not bite or scratch him say, but rather go to the toilet in his back pack, scratch up books left lying about, sleep in his clothes and get fur all over them. Just enough to annoy the sorcerer without actually doing him any harm (though it may also spill over the occasional potion the sorcerer is working on or leave dirty paw prints on a freshly written scroll making it useless).

Everyone else thinks that the tabby is a charming little creature as it rubs against their legs and gets pettings, purring away happily. But this is a cover for its true nature that it only shows to the sorcerer himself.

It sounds like typical cat behavious, but all cats are evil (and I love them for it)

[Trevorfrost]

Yeah I think its interesting in it of itself but what good character in their right mind is going to summon a familiar or similar companion if he knows 100% that he is getting something evil.. (Especially a Paladin.) Oh and why do Druids and Rangers get normal animal companions unless they become evil?
I just find it a bit odd that's all...

[Brandi]

Actually, Wiccy, my impression of a dread companion is that it tends to act out on darker subconscious impulses of its master, even if the master generally knows better.

The cat, in this case, loves its sorcerer with almost slavish devotion, but if it hears her one day sighing about how men seem to pay so much more attention to her pretty sister, it'll try and do something like rip up Sis' face-- ideally without drawing attention back on its mistress, but familiars are only so intelligent after all...

Even worse, what about the paladin who *knows* that he has a slight weakness towards pride-- that while he cannot expect gratitude from those 'beneath his station' that it is still worth doing good and helping them-- and then finds his horse has developed a tendency to kick, bite, or just step on people who it thinks are not showing him appropriate deference...?

[Jester of the FoS]

Well the players know for sure 100% it is evil. The characters do not.
They know they get something that improves their skills, acts as a sentry and can deliver touch attack spells for them. Plus the endless little bonuses of having a familiar.
And so what if its evil, that does not make it bad. Just, well, evil. As Wiccy pointed out most cats are evil anyway (and yet I'm still a cat person). Dread Familiars are just more intelligent and deliberate in their activities.

As for Paladins, this is trickier. The Dread-War Horse would be Lawfull Evil, so it is trustworthy and honorable, just not particularly nice. And ever so handy.

It comes down to which is more valuable, a loyal animal friend and/or faithful and fearless steed -or- not.

[Trevorfrost]

I assume you mean this jokingly but, I have to say it anyways... Cats aren't evil they are just Cats.. Its part of feline nature to act like that lol... Cats rule Dogs drool and such lol...

As for Characters not knowing... If Familars and Mounts 100% of the time are Dread Companions then wouldn't that at least be noted by people. I mean most of the native Ravenloft spellcasters know the basic limitations of magic in their homelands.

[ScS of the Fraternity]

Cats aren't evil they are just Cats..

Same thing. You know that saying, dogs have owners and cats have staff.

[Mangrum]

As for Characters not knowing... If Familars and Mounts 100% of the time are Dread Companions then wouldn't that at least be noted by people. I mean most of the native Ravenloft spellcasters know the basic limitations of magic in their homelands.

Right. Which is why prospective players of such characters are told that right up front.

("It's unfair that this happens" and "I don't think players should be warned about it" don't really fit in the same complaint...)

[Trevorfrost]

Well the players know for sure 100% it is evil. The characters do not.
.

Right. Which is why prospective players of such characters are told that right up front.

("It's unfair that this happens" and "I don't think players should be warned about it" don't really fit in the same complaint...)

Lol at this point I am not arguing unfairness I am arguing confusing statments made by others lol...

[VAN]

What about the familiars/mounts/psi crystals of the outlanders? They will become evil, or at least teinted once in demi plane, or they will be normal?

[Troile]

It is part of the folklore revolving around magic.

Everywhere in ravenloft books it says to be careful when messing with magic...I think it would be a well known fact that if you summon an animal to be your servant and be connected to you that there are going to be stories cautioning against doing it.

Dread companions aren't evil like someone said...and they don't even have to hear you...they are connected to you.

And the question why would a good character summon one? for power? for companionship? Not everything in Ravenloft is black and white. Often the good rood is hard to follow...and truly righteous character may not summon one because he knows the dangers...If good characters can't fall from grace why are you playing Ravenloft? Again...Faerun is there for you.

What if the character knows the risks but believes that he is strong enough and 'good' enough to handle it so summons it anyway...

And in the end...'normal' companions are boring.

[Wiccy of the Fraternity]

What about the familiars/mounts/psi crystals of the outlanders? They will become evil, or at least teinted once in demi plane, or they will be normal?

I would say that if the familiar and so on were to be brought in from another plane then that creature would remain as it is and would not become a dread companion. However, if lost and replaced by one gained in the dread realms, then that new companion would be a dread companion.

[Trevorfrost]

Dread companions aren't evil like someone said...and they don't even have to hear you...they are connected to you.

And the question why would a good character summon one? for power? for companionship? Not everything in Ravenloft is black and white. Often the good rood is hard to follow...and truly righteous character may not summon one because he knows the dangers...If good characters can't fall from grace why are you playing Ravenloft? Again...Faerun is there for you.

What if the character knows the risks but believes that he is strong enough and 'good' enough to handle it so summons it anyway...

And in the end...'normal' companions are boring.

Agreement in 'normal' companions are boring... Not gonna argue that lol....

However will argue that Dread Companions are Evil. Says so right in the Sidebar in the Ravenloft PHB.

Of course good characters can fall from grace but you also shouldn't go out of your way to force it on players or characters who are actively trying to avoid such a fate either lol..(Doing so makes the game far less fun for the players.) I have always looked at it this way, the difference between Ravenloft and Baator and/or the Abyss, is that in the latter two cases everything is evil no questions asked, no hope.. Ravenloft however while full of evil beings, still has heros and people that are good so there is hope.

I don't like the idea of something that is 100% guaranteed evil, hence my original solution. (They have a fair shot at a normal companion and they also still have a shot at being stuck with the evil dread companion. Best of all they have no idea of which they have.) Is my cat really evil or is it just being a cat?

Of course we could just make it so all familiars are toads instead lol (Yeah my dread companion is a toad the last evil thing it did was to trick several princesses into thinking he was a prince.) I know there is probably something evil that a toad could do that I am not thinking of but still a evil toad is still amusing lol...

[Jester of the FoS]

Well the players know for sure 100% it is evil. The characters do not.

Right. Which is why prospective players of such characters are told that right up front.

("It's unfair that this happens" and "I don't think players should be warned about it" don't really fit in the same complaint...)

Lol at this point I am not arguing unfairness I am arguing confusing statements made by others lol...

Let me clarify my statement:
The characters know how magic works and they know, either through first-hand knowledge or shared experiences, how familiars act. They do not know for sure that they act differently, that is just how they act and they do not know of other worlds where this is not so.
But there is a far cry from knowing familiars and mounts have an overwhelming tendency to be protective and sneaky while acting on their master's dark impulses and knowing they are always Evil.

Instead they might just be thought of as selfish or drawing from the master so it is his weakness infecting the pet. They might be thought of as animals –albeit smart ones- that have less control over their instincts and base urges than humans. Or they may subscribe to the Christian philosophy that animals do not have souls and thus have no knowledge of good or evil so they are not to blame for their actions.
Sound explanations or rationalisations for the unknown, that their pet is quite simply evil. They may suspect, they may have some lingering doubts but the creature is unwaveringly loyal and trustworthy when it counts, which is rare enough and more than could be said for other players and people.

That itself is a good reason for a ‘good’ character to have one. They always have someone to watch their backs.

Okay, alternate idea. Instead of a straight random chance for a Dread Familiar or total elimination what about tying the DF to Power Checks?
The DF is supposed to be the Id incarnate, but if the mage is pure and good enough the familiar might be less evil, if not good altogether. A True Innocent would only have equally good familiar however a bitter battle-hardened warmage would have a higher chance of receiving a twisted reflection of their subconscious. The creature’s alignment might work on a sliding scale (like the Requiem rules) where it slowly descends into evil and becomes a DF after a period of time, rolling Power Checks along with its master. Dread Familiar state is the equivalent of its own Path of Corruption, but with only 2-3 strikes.
familiar