Falling out?

[Trevorfrost]

I have been away from the online Ravenloft community for a while, for various reasons. Mostly just because I have been away from the Roleplaying for a bit. But now I have been catching up with the various 3E stuff and tryin to catch up in my collection, so I decided to catch up on the various news and stuff..

Thus mentioned since I have not been in the loop at all, so I like have been pretty much in love with these Gazetteer's and wondering what was up with this "Falling Out" I have heard about between the Kargatane and Arthaus? What happend and such and how does this affect the Gazetter's and the other releases?

[Bluebomber4evr]

Basically, the Kargatane got fed up with Arthaus' lack of direction for the line. When non-Kargatane Arthaus staff wrote contradictory books like Champions of Darkness, the Kargatane tried to patch up the continuity holes. When the Ravenloft PHB came out, the Kargatane gave up and quit.

As for the future of the Gazetteers, who knows? One Kargatane member, Ryan Naylor, still works on the line. Steve Miller, former TSR/WotC staff writer and co-author of Domains of Dread is also contributing stuff. So it's not the end of the world. In fact, having Steve Miller on board is a very good thing, as he created a lot of stuff for the setting (such as the Gentleman Caller), and he can elaborate on it in future books.

Yeah, it sucks that guys like JW Mangrum and Andrew Cermak had to quit because of a lack of direction, but there's still good people knowledgeable about the setting contributing. Besides, Arthaus' current state of affairs can't be any worse than when Lorraine Williams was running TSR into the ground.

[Charney]

And one must not forget Rucht who cowrote the two new VR Guides.

[Trevorfrost]

Interesting, Okay I understand the whole Champions of Darkness thing... But are you saying that they quit because of the new RLPHB or just at around that time? Cause I thought the RLPHB was an improvement on the first core book, even with its only minor changes, though yeah I really don't understand what they were smoking when they came up with Magic Ratings.

[hidajiremi]

You're kidding right? The RLPHB was a piece of crap, plain and simple. It was almost all reprints, which makes it not worth buying in the first place, actually confuses a number of things that it claims to clarify, and makes dark powers checks into a leveling mechanic, which was never the design intent on them. Dark powers checks exist to punish/reward player decision about their character actions, not to hamper leveling. And while the magic rules were an interesting option, they should have been included in the original printing of the book or not at all. Inclusion in a reprint book, after so many campaign are already well under way, is foolish at best.

The loss of the Kargatane as a whole on the line is regrettable. While Mangrum and I have our differences (mostly I don't care for how mean he is toward the fan community), I have to admit that he's one of the better writers the line has ever seen. The Kargatane produced quality material; I'm glad that the Fraternity of Shadows is doing as well in their absence. Now if only we could get the FoS to take over the line... but that would involve "direction," which Arthaus genuinely seems to lack.

Hida Jiremi
(Jeremy Puckett)

[Charney]

Don't be so harsh.
First of all, most of the RLPHB is the reprint of the R3E done by the Kargatane. So while the additions made to it are useless, the rest is still the original R3E so it's not trash.

Also, while 4 of the Kargatane left, we still have Ryan remaining and Steve Miller, one of the Kargat. And we have Rucht Liluvirat who was a member of our community as Sergei.

Several of the current authors (excluding the 3 above) weren't part of the Champions of Darkness missap. So we can give them a chance don't you think?

[Wiccy of the Fraternity]

Now if only we could get the FoS to take over the line... but that would involve "direction," which Arthaus genuinely seems to lack.

Us, work on the official line? Are you insane? We would probably do things the fans didn't like either. We may do our best to produce work to a high standard, but even I doubt my ability to write to the level required for professional work. I am improving, but I am some ways off from being proficient enough in writing to consistently achieve that standard of work.

Still, you never know what the future may bring, one day it may happen or it may not, but in the meantime I am enjoying myself working on a fan-produced level and seeing my work improve over time.

[Jester of the FoS]

I doubt my ability to write to the level required for professional work. I am impriving, but I am some ways off from being proficient enough in writing to consistently achieve that standard of work.

LoL!! Please tell me that was intentional Wiccy!

[hidajiremi]

Don't be so harsh.
First of all, most of the RLPHB is the reprint of the R3E done by the Kargatane. So while the additions made to it are useless, the rest is still the original R3E so it's not trash.

That's sort of my point. The original text was good, but unnecessary reprints automatically qualify for the trashpile. In this case, it wasn't the older content so much as the presentation that got me. However, virtually all of the new text was frankly terrible.

Also, while 4 of the Kargatane left, we still have Ryan remaining and Steve Miller, one of the Kargat. And we have Rucht Liluvirat who was a member of our community as Sergei.

Several of the current authors (excluding the 3 above) weren't part of the Champions of Darkness missap. So we can give them a chance don't you think?

I'm very happy with the return of Steve Miller, and Ryan Naylor's work has done nothing but impress me. I'm not so sure about that Rucht guy, though... seems fishy...

But again we have the problem of quality control, editing issues, and line direction. Champions of Darkness isn't the only misstep so far, just the worst one. Heroes of Light really wasn't much better; there were significant balance issues and sort of a diffuse theme. I'm also personally aggravated with all of the retcons. There had to be better ways of dealing with things besides going retcon crazy.

Regardless, I'm still looking forward to seeing the next several books, and seeing where the storyline goes from here.

Hida Jiremi
(Jeremy Puckett)

[Jester of the FoS]

The original text was good, but unnecessary reprints automatically qualify for the trashpile. In this case, it wasn't the older content so much as the presentation that got me. However, virtually all of the new text was frankly terrible.

Well considering that if they didn't publish updates for their books to 3.5 they would lose their licencing agreement with WotC and there would be no more Ravenloft products ever I would be hesitent to call them "unnecassary reprints".
Just be thankfull they hadn't already published the DMG as well...

Were the new rules crap on a stick? For the most part, yes (the new Monster Hunter update was pretty good actually, and personally I like the Magic Rating).
Was the update of Denizens of Darkness a half-hearted waste of time that barely changed anything, let alone fix the already bad rule conversions from 2nd Edition? Yeah, pretty much.
Am I glad they decided to put two other books on the back-burner and have they themselves (ie the developers) make the updates rather than pay already busy writers to waste their time tweaking rules and save the talent for real books? Mixed feelings... but still a yes.

[Ail]

Hi,

I too have been absent from the community for several months now... I'm not sure, perhaps even more than a year. So, I missed all this. After all, what books were published in the RL3E? Or most importantly, which Gazetteers? Which, supposedly, remain to do? And, is it known already what was the grand plot running in the background of these Gazetteers?

On the other hand, if the Kargatane left Arthaus (mostly), do you think we can have the Kargatane back ?

(just kidding, I understand they have a life and more interesting things to do. Besides, it's up to them to decide and only they can answer... but it was a thought, just that).

W.C.

[Trevorfrost]

Whoa Hida! Lets not go right for the jugular eh? Yeah it added some stupid things but it also fixed many things that a lot of us were complaining about when the first one came out. Yes it was a reprint but I went into the book knowing that, I guess if you were expecting something totally redone from the ground up you would be dissapointed. But what I see are the improvements from the first book (better editing, better art, clearer map.), and those extras that I didn't like(Like the Magic Rating System) I just ignored..

I was actually okay with the first core book mostly if you looked at it as just a players book, what really annoyed me was Secrets of the Dread Realms, that was just a hideous botch job. And in turn it has led to the thing that annoyed me about the New DMG, (Though I like most of it.) Was the space used for the Tarroka and Disheka stuff that could have been better used Updating Darklords for 3.5 and maybe get to some of them that we haven't gotten to yet.. The Tarroka and Disheka stuff IMHO should have come in a set with the new Tarroka deck ... The New DMG should have been what the Secrets of the Dread Realms was originally supposed to be.. Seriously though the only books I like a lot thus far are the Gazetteer's and even they had their problems. ( For gods sakes if you are going to put in ideas for character names, put in ideas for surnames too, not just the one time in Mordent, all the times lol.)

[Wiccy of the Fraternity]

LoL!! Please tell me that was intentional Wiccy!

Nope, the curse of the Dread Typo has struck again... now to go fix it.

[Wiccy of the Fraternity]

I thought the fortune telling section of the RLDMG was well placed and deserved to be there. For me it was also one of the best parts of the book. I haven't got my hands on the Tarokka printed for the vurrent line, it is like gold dust unless you are willing to speng an slanderous amount of cash on it. Still, I have my own in the works that I will (eventually) get done.

[Reginald de Curry]

The new deck has one serious problem: NO ESPER!

Otherwise, it's pretty good, I guess.