Origin of Vistani, Ezra, Hala?

[Wolfglide of the Fraternity]

So the word "Gypsy" became derogatory because people kept on saying it is derogatory. This is an ongoing process with many words in the English language.

After a bit of quick internet research, I learned that "Gypsy" is a term applied to the Romani people by non-Romani, based on a misconception that the Romani came from Egypt. Aside from that, it has gained more negative connotations by being used as the base for certain other unsavory words based on stereotypes about the Romani (such as "gyp" for the act of swindling someone). I wouldn't personally characterize this as an instance of something becoming offensive just because people insist that it is, but as an instance of people trying to be more cognizant of how a rather dated term may be received by the group to which it was applied. Interestingly, there are some Romani in the UK who choose to self-apply the term "Gypsy" (or so I have read, at least), so the term is not universally offensive. It is still good to be careful.

[alhoon]

In my country we call these Romani people Τσιγκάνους (singular Τσιγκάνος), a word that we got from when they first showed up in the Byzantine Empire. We also call them Gypsies or Roma but mostly Τσιγκάνους. The word Gypsy always had some negative connotations as I was growing up. I.e. we were using it (and still use it) as an insult.
I don't think the Balkan society is as racist with any group as we are with the Roma.

Here's what ChatGPT had to say on the issue, and I find it correct:
"The Greek term "Τσιγκάνος" is derived from the Byzantine Greek "Ατσίγγανος" (Atsinganos), which means "untouchable" and is related to the Romani people's perceived social status and professions at the time they arrived in the Byzantine Empire. "

By untouchable, the Byzantines meant "so low that you would soil your hands if you touch that person"

[Resonant Curse]

The choose your own adventure book had a path that theoretically took you to the homeworld of the vistani or at least a domain based off of it.

Forgot to type the name. Castle of the Undead.

[tomokaicho]

After a bit of quick internet research, I learned that "Gypsy" is a term applied to the Romani people by non-Romani, based on a misconception that the Romani came from Egypt. Aside from that, it has gained more negative connotations by being used as the base for certain other unsavory words based on stereotypes about the Romani (such as "gyp" for the act of swindling someone). I wouldn't personally characterize this as an instance of something becoming offensive just because people insist that it is, but as an instance of people trying to be more cognizant of how a rather dated term may be received by the group to which it was applied. Interestingly, there are some Romani in the UK who choose to self-apply the term "Gypsy" (or so I have read, at least), so the term is not universally offensive. It is still good to be careful.

This research is worth reading. You should have a "pin drop" moment when you realise that "Roma" is an activist construct instead of something that "Roma" call themselves.

The choose your own adventure book had a path that theoretically took you to the homeworld of the vistani or at least a domain based off of it.

Forgot to type the name. Castle of the Undead.

I am going to check this out.

[alhoon]

The choose your own adventure book

What? THere's a CYOA book for Ravenloft?

[alhoon]

The choose your own adventure book

What? THere's a CYOA book for Ravenloft?

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

The choose your own adventure book

What? THere's a CYOA book for Ravenloft?

Not CYOA brand, but same concept. They call them "Endless Quest", and there are, I believe, three.

https://fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/Ca ... the_Undead
https://fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/Night_of_the_Tiger
https://fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/Du ... Quest_Book

[alhoon]

Is that Arijani from Sri-Raji in the 2nd one?
Where can I find them? Are they for sale somewhere, in ebook form? I don't want dead-tree books. They are very hard to bring all the way here.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Is that Arijani from Sri-Raji in the 2nd one?

It is indeed.

Where can I find them? Are they for sale somewhere, in ebook form? I don't want dead-tree books. They are very hard to bring all the way here.

Wish I knew. Take a search at the usual places. I have them in dead-tree form. Even that is hard to find these days for the first two, as they are nearing 30 years old. The recent one might be more likely to be found, in either form.

[alhoon]

Is that Arijani from Sri-Raji in the 2nd one?

It is indeed.

Where can I find them? Are they for sale somewhere, in ebook form? I don't want dead-tree books. They are very hard to bring all the way here.

Wish I knew. Take a search at the usual places. I have them in dead-tree form. Even that is hard to find these days for the first two, as they are nearing 30 years old. The recent one might be more likely to be found, in either form.

I found some of the other ones, in "Internet Archive". It doesn't have those three though.
However, I took a look at the book "Under Dragon's Wing" and found it to be ... comically bad. A 15 years old that has read Tolkien and played a few D&D sessions would write a better one, that actually made sense.
I found the other one I checked "Dragon of Doom" to be a great improvement, as in, it could be read and you could follow a plot. At least, it starts by giving a 2-3 lines introduction to the NPCs around you. Still, it was below average. And then, I found out it was one of the best received.

So... no, I am very disillusioned. These are not Lone-wolf quality books. These are worse than what I would get from ChatGPT - from near-garbage like the Under Dragon's Wing to below average.

[tomokaicho]

Resonant Curse - do you have a page number for the Vistani homeland? Because from what I read (via Internet Archive) the protagonist is a "prince of the Vistani" which is new and interesting, but I can't find an indicator that it is the Vistani homeland.

[KingCorn]

For Hala, I found a pretty intersting possible inspiration for her: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ala_(demon)
Apparently a female mythological creature of Bulgarian and Serbian culture, and was basically a mixture of the Greek Lamia and the Slavic Baba Yaga, known for its appatite and said to control the weather.
However, the Ala seems to be a strictly evil creature, so besides the magic and snakes, theirs less connection to hala.
Considering worshippers of Hala wield 'The Weave', more than likely she was inspired by a mixture of Mystra and Selune.

[paireon]

So... no, I am very disillusioned. These are not Lone-wolf quality books.

TBF the Lone Wolf series is arguably the zenith of gamebooks in terms of quality. I've read/played a LOT of gamebook series, and none were ever as good (though some like Fighting Fantasy came pretty darn close at times, and I have a weak spot for the weird British humour of JH Brennan's series even though they were punishingly difficult). I will agree with you though that none of the Endless Quest D&D books I've read were in any way, shape or form more than average quality at best.

[alhoon]

So... no, I am very disillusioned. These are not Lone-wolf quality books.

TBF the Lone Wolf series is arguably the zenith of gamebooks in terms of quality. I've read/played a LOT of gamebook series, and none were ever as good (though some like Fighting Fantasy came pretty darn close at times, and I have a weak spot for the weird British humour of JH Brennan's series even though they were punishingly difficult). I will agree with you though that none of the Endless Quest D&D books I've read were in any way, shape or form more than average quality at best.

I have tried the Sorcery series too (I bought them on Steam which gives quality of life stuff) and ... they are a nice distraction too.

[Wolfglide of the Fraternity]

After a bit of quick internet research, I learned that "Gypsy" is a term applied to the Romani people by non-Romani, based on a misconception that the Romani came from Egypt. Aside from that, it has gained more negative connotations by being used as the base for certain other unsavory words based on stereotypes about the Romani (such as "gyp" for the act of swindling someone). I wouldn't personally characterize this as an instance of something becoming offensive just because people insist that it is, but as an instance of people trying to be more cognizant of how a rather dated term may be received by the group to which it was applied. Interestingly, there are some Romani in the UK who choose to self-apply the term "Gypsy" (or so I have read, at least), so the term is not universally offensive. It is still good to be careful.

This research is worth reading. You should have a "pin drop" moment when you realise that "Roma" is an activist construct instead of something that "Roma" call themselves.

That is a very interesting article. Thank you for sharing that.

My understanding was that the authors said a certain subset of Romani use the term "Roma." While it may be a term whose use is driven by activism, it is activism within a subset of the Romani population, so some members of the population do indeed call themselves "Roma." Still, it is interesting how the authors discuss the tensions between the "Gypsy"-identifying Romani and the "Roma"-identifying Romani. Either term could cause trouble in the wrong context.