The Sheltered Isles

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Re: The Sheltered Isles

Post by Five »

tomokaicho wrote:
Rock wrote:I invite you to look at the domains' cultural levels. ^^;

These domains are specifically - and intentionally - more advanced than the Core and the usual domains. And why not? Not all roleplaying has to take place in the Dung Ages; Ravenloft itself shows us that Renaissance-age domains are well-suited to the genre of Gothic horror.
So why not try it in even more advanced societies?
I think the naysayers are concerned with cultural and technological pollution into the less advanced domains. There are ways of handling it. One is simple isolation. You can't get from this cluster to other clusters. Alternatively, the natives do have technology, but they are unable to produce more of it. This scenario is similar to The Temple of the Frog, which can easily be repurposed for Ravenloft. You've got androids, lightsabers, blaster guns, robots, genetically engineered mutants - the whole works. Oh, and alien vampires.

When used this way high technology is just a variant of magic from the point of view of lower tech people. Technology and magic could interact as well. If you can't recharge your blaster because you don't have the fusion reactor or whatever is required, magic can do the recharging for you (which has costs, which therefore puts the blaster on par with a magic wand).

D&D has always had a bit of Sci-Fi on the fringes. There is City of the Gods (related to Temple of the Frog). Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. Tale of the Comet. All D&D canon. If you want to go crazy with it, have the Dark Powers harvest NPCs from the Gamma World setting.

In terms of what is in D&D Sci-Fi canon, the approach that I described above is used. It's in the campaign setting, but does not overwhelm the campaign setting.
If somebody were to introduce such concepts into their campaign then it obviously won't overwhelm the campaign setting, given that the campaign setting, the original representation or example, is a conglomeration of ideas that DMs are, through the stated nature of the game, encouraged to personalise/customise/own.

If that person is writing concepts for others to use, then that injection of flavour will be targeted and thus be appealing to a smaller audience than something written more...vanilla. An oddity on the shelf that will be picked up and looked at, but may take more time to sell. Whatever. Point is, it's still there on the shelf, in the store, and as such it's another tool for those looking for such tools.

Not sure where the resistance is coming from, to be honest. If people expect others to follow a specific edition's developer's blueprint then Ravenloft is and will forever be nothing more than somebody else's campaign. And that's just mucked. It goes against the foundation or principles of Dungeons and Dragons.

The Core and it's technology suppression is illogical and a glaring sore point, straight out of the box. I've read, and probably even speculated myself, many reasons as to why this is (or may be) over the years and not one of them makes any sense (that doesn't involve somehow breaking the Core down into individual domains). Thus clinging to that base model and resisting the inclusion of higher tech domains seems hypocritical. Not seems, IS hypocritical. The explanation, whatever it may be, either works or it doesn't, regardless of actual CL.

Rock: Keep it coming...
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Re: The Sheltered Isles

Post by Pizza »

For me reading, the main problem to the tech levels seems to be these places are very close together. My impression is Schlot and Crublu can even see each other from their shores. Why wouldn’t they want to adopt at least some of the more advanced technologies of their neighbors? This seems especially true of Schlot with its economy based on industry. Why wouldn’t it want to improve efficiency, production, and safety by integrating the more advanced technology? There are reasons I’m sure, but unless you’re Amish if you see your neighbor driving a car around you’ll probably want one instead of just saying, “There goes Joe with his horseless carriage again.” And even the Amish tend to be interested in the experience of driving a car even if they won’t buy one.
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Re: The Sheltered Isles

Post by Wolfglide of the Fraternity »

A fair point, but there can be a gap between wanting something and being able to get it. I may see my neighbor's new car, but I can't necessarily afford it.

In this case, we are talking about a single nation, so if Crublu has all of this technology, they certainly have the means to share it or implement it on the other islands, removing my initial objection. However, being fully capable of doing something doesn't mean it necessarily will happen. There could well be political reasons that the less advanced islands are kept that way, even if there are practical reasons not to.
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Re: The Sheltered Isles

Post by Rock of the Fraternity »

There are also paranoid and cruel reasons for doing so.
Or, if you prefer the term: realpolitik.

Wynd holds access to most of the food production for the whole Cluster.
Schlot has the most developed mines and production facilities.
Either could hold the rest of the Cluster to ransom if they managed to close the technological gap, especially Schlot, which has enough factories to start cranking out weapons and combat vehicles like tanks.

While Crublu is a very laid-back nation, Lula Ainglory hails from Darkon; she's familiar with the ways an absolute ruler maintains control over a diverse kingdom. She subtly manipulates the bureaucracy of Crublu, inspiring paranoia and xenophobia in her domain's rulers, seeing to it that requests to share technology are tied up in endless red tape and debate.
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Re: The Sheltered Isles

Post by Rock of the Fraternity »

Manofevil wrote:... who is the DarkLord of Schlot, or have you not decided yet?
I have now:
Volturio Meyer
CE middle-aged male human Ranger 5 / Monster humper 5 / Vampire hunter 3
On his home world, Volturio was a celebrity; an acolyte of a society of vampire hunters in a kingdom besieged by the undead. As he moved up the ranks, Volturio proved both a dogged hunter and a devoted scholar, studying both the weaknesses and the strengths of the undead, as well as numerous techniques that could be used in their eradication, such as alchemy.
Volturio's zeal saw him move up the ranks and introduce improvements to the hunters' techniques. If some people questioned the lengths to which he was prepared to go, they were soon shouted down by those grateful to be freed from predation. Undead attacks were at an all-time low ... and then something happened that no one could have foreseen.

The vampires gave up.

On Volturio's home world, the undead were not forced to feed solely on the blood of humanoids; they could turn to animal blood to nurture their Thirst. With Volturio's hunters pursuing them so mercilessly, the vampires' Council of Clans voted unanimously to just relocate their people into the wilderness and wait him out. Volturio was mortal; old age and death would come for him in due time, the Hunters would lose their edge, and they could return.
At first, the people celebrated, their relief nigh-palpable. The Hunters were celebrated as heroes... But time passed, just as the vampires had anticipated. People were born who had never needed to dread the night, and politicians with hungers of their own questioned the need to fund the Hunters quite so lavishly.

Volturio could have acquiesced. He could have given a rational argument for the need to be prepared for the vampires' return. He could have encouraged his fellow Hunters to pursue and destroy their ancient enemy.
He could have done all of this, if he had been motivated by care for his fellow man.
Volturio was not so motivated. What he wanted was to triumph over strong enemies and receive the adulation of the masses. Seeing his fame fade away, being unable to hunt, was intolerable to him.
So he did pursue the vampires, all alone. As the sun stood high in the sky, he dared enter their hidden crypts and stole the four arcane implements the undead of his home world needed to spawn more of their kind: a cup, a sword, a tome, and a crown. He returned home, abducted people who would not be missed, and subjected them to the turning ritual, only to abandon them to their Thirst.

As Volturio's victims went on crimson rampages, the people cried out for Hunters to save them, and they answered the call, with Volturio at their head. His fame shone bright for all to see once more, and for a time he was happy.
That time ended sharply when the vampires who had fled returned in force. Before, they had fed cautiously and only occasionally turned a likely candidate. Now, they waged open warfare, desperate as they were to reclaim their artefacts and avoid extinction.
Volturio expected greater prominence, but to his shock and fury, the Army took over and absorbed the Hunters. To his greater dismay, his fellow Hunters agreed and cooperated, citing that they were not trained for this kind of conflict. No matter how much Volturio argued or raged, he was not given the leadership position he felt he deserved.

When a reluctant diplomatic communication was established between the human and vampire leadership, the vampires offered to retreat for ten generations if the artefacts were returned. The humans knew nothing about the location of the artefacts, and Volturio did not reveal his act of theft out of resentment over the Army taking over. In fact, he secretly burned the vampires' sacred tome.
Desperate and furious, the vampires waged a final assault, overwhelming the human defenses. While people were running and dying all around him, Volturio walked the streets, killing every man and undead to cross his path with the artefact sword he had stolen. And when he was finally cornered by the undead, the Hunter of Glory ... sundered the sword.
Even with teeth tearing at his throat, Volturio laughed and laughed and laughed, the wails of the despairing undead like music in his ears. He had killed all of them, for there could be no more vampires without all the artefacts, and if anyone survived, he would be remembered forever.

And then the Mists rolled in.

When he awoke, Volturio found himself in a domain that considered vampires to be if not a superstition, then a danger so rare that being attacked by one was as rare as being struck by lightning - and only very rarely lethal.
Hunters like Volturio are not celebrated, but rather scorned as being outdated. Where once he was sponsored by the state, Volturio now must work as groundskeeper and undertaker for a cemetery to make ends meet.
The domain's vampires are generally cautious to the point of being timid and fear Volturio, and he has found himself unable to galvanize them into becoming an enemy worth hunting and capable of granting him prestige.
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Re: The Sheltered Isles

Post by Wolfglide of the Fraternity »

Rock wrote:He returned home, abducted people who would not be missed, and subjected them to the turning ritual, only to abandon them to their Thirst.

As Volturio's victims went on crimson rampages, the people cried out for Hunters to save them, and they answered the call, with Volturio at their head. His fame shone bright for all to see once more, and for a time he was happy.
I actually attempted something like this in a game once. My character found a stone mask that could turn people into vampires (an artifact the DM borrowed from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure), and decided to turn innocents in order to become a vampire slayer and usurp control of a city. It all fell apart when the first vampire he made wasn't properly laid to rest, and came back after him. He had to use the mask on himself to survive the encounter, then just ran for it and let the city get overrun.

I consider causing a vampire infestation through criminal negligence to be one of my biggest in-game accomplishments.
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Re: The Sheltered Isles

Post by alhoon »

About the cultural levels beyond renaissance, didn't have an excellent article from ScS about it in one of the early QtR?
Like "CL10: Enlightment (up to late 18th century, French/American Revolutions)"
"CL11: Early Industrial (up to 1840s)"
"CL12: Late Industrial (I.e Victorian era / Belle Epoque)"
"CL13: Early modern (up to, but not including nukes and space travel)"

I would add:
"CL14: ?? (Cold war era, civil rights, no internet)"
"CL15: Information age (internet, raise of personal computers, smartphones, Stroodle and Azalinopedia)"
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Re: The Sheltered Isles

Post by brothersale »

The ones in the Quoth the Raven are in issue 2 - the march of progress and are:

CL 10 - Age of Absolutism
CL 11 - The Enlightenment
CL 12 - Industrial Revolution
CL 11 - Victorian Age

no date range is given for them and it's tricky to work out with the first two based on the information in the article as they overlap base on what i can tell from looking into it.

Another set of culture levels exists on the wiki,

1700 A.D. - 1850 A.D. - CL 10 - Steam Age (Industrial Revolution)
1850 A.D. - 1970 A.D. - CL 11 - Oil Age (Internal Combustion Engine + Electricity)
1970 A.D. - XXXX A.D - CL 12 - Information Age
XXXX A.D. - XXXX A.D. - CL 13 - Age of the Man God

these have no source but are better defined in their time ranges.
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Re: The Sheltered Isles

Post by alhoon »

Those age ranges in the wiki are too large for anything past 1700s in my opinion.

CL10 Absolutism and CL11 enlightenment break the enlightenment that is, IIRC mid 17th to late 18th century to early and late. Aaaand as you said, they kinda overlap so it is reasonable to have them mixed up in my mind.
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