Wheel of Time TV series [Show spoilers, no book spoilers]

[alhoon]

After watching the first three episodes, I have to say that it is better than I feared it will be, but it is not a masterpiece like the books. I won't go deeply to thinks that I liked or my various pet peeves and give a more generic assessment:

The show is good, but not a masterpiece. It follows "the spirit" of the books so far, but not too closely, which I don't really mind. It works as an adaption and when the source material is 12000 pages things will be cut. I like the new backstory of Perrin as it makes him more interesting.
Somethings that I didn't like have to do how some plots and interactions seem simplified. It took me five books to be able to be sure whether Moraine was good or bad. She is clear in the books that she will see the heroes dead before she sees them fall to the shadow. What that Darkfriend in the end of episode 3 said? That. You can be fighting against the end of the world and still be a butthole. And that's one instance. On the other hand, making Perrin more "complex" the show gave him more depth IMO.

I loved the scenery, I absolutely did. Whomever did the scenery deserves the equivalent of an oscar and a lot of money. It really brings Jordan's very detailed and majestic world to life and honestly, the show seems to be something that you should watch in the big screen. Shadar Logoth, was an absolute blast.

One criticism though, is that the show... doesn't seem to be for "beginners". People will either have to pick up the books to see the glossary in the end, or practically learn a new language.
Furthermore, in Jordan's World, expectations are often false. This is no medieval Europe despite the trappings. This will make things even worse as assumptions will be false.

Generally, from what I have watched so far, I give it 5 1/2 out of 7 cuendillar seals.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I've only watched the first episode so far. Waiting for my wife to catch up before proceeding. She's coming in completely fresh, so I'm interested to see how it hits purely as a show. For me, who has read the whole series through once, and then listened to the audiobooks for a re-read, it was a good adaptation so far, but not as instantly gripping as Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings was. It is a big sigh of relief that it wasn't completely botched yet, though. That was my major fear. But the casting seems great, the scenery is amazing, as you said, and a lot of the visuals are instantly recognizable and make my inner fanboy squee a bit to see them brought to life. I'm not sure yet how I feel about Perrin's backstory change. I did audibly gasp at that. That's the one major change that I'm worried about now. The other changes seem minor and mostly expected, and maybe even for the best. (Though I was also a bit disturbed by the changes to Mat and his family as well.)

Also, I can't get past Rand's sweater for some reason. Close up, you can see it's roughly knit, but from a distance it looks too modern. I feel like he just walked out of a Gap commercial. The sooner he gets a costume upgrade, the better.

[Rock of the Fraternity]

I'm hearing some very odd sounds about conflict between the company producing this series and Robert Jordan's widow. Accusations of theft and defamation are flying about.
I'm holding off on watching anything until I get greater clarity about that.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I'm hearing some very odd sounds about conflict between the company producing this series and Robert Jordan's widow. Accusations of theft and defamation are flying about.

You sure that's new news? There was a defamation suit years ago, but it was settled:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wheel ... TV_series)
Background
In 2000, NBC optioned the screen rights to Robert Jordan's fantasy novel series The Wheel of Time but did not ultimately proceed with the production.[1] In 2004, Jordan sold the film, television, video game, and comic rights to the series to production company Red Eagle Entertainment.[1] In 2015, Red Eagle Entertainment paid air time to cable network FXX to air Winter Dragon, a 22-minute pilot for a potential The Wheel of Time series starring Billy Zane and Max Ryan that allowed Red Eagle to hold on to the rights to the project.[15] Subsequently, the company sued Jordan's widow, Harriet McDougal, for her comments about the pilot;[16] the lawsuit was settled in 2016.[17]

[Rock of the Fraternity]

Tsss... Why the *bleep* did this pop up as something new in my feeds...?
Thanks for the info.

[alhoon]

I've only watched the first episode so far. Waiting for my wife to catch up before proceeding. She's coming in completely fresh, so I'm interested to see how it hits purely as a show. For me, who has read the whole series through once, and then listened to the audiobooks for a re-read, it was a good adaptation so far, but not as instantly gripping as Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings was. It is a big sigh of relief that it wasn't completely botched yet, though. That was my major fear. But the casting seems great, the scenery is amazing, as you said, and a lot of the visuals are instantly recognizable and make my inner fanboy squee a bit to see them brought to life. I'm not sure yet how I feel about Perrin's backstory change. I did audibly gasp at that. That's the one major change that I'm worried about now. The other changes seem minor and mostly expected, and maybe even for the best. (Though I was also a bit disturbed by the changes to Mat and his family as well.)

Also, I can't get past Rand's sweater for some reason. Close up, you can see it's roughly knit, but from a distance it looks too modern. I feel like he just walked out of a Gap commercial. The sooner he gets a costume upgrade, the better.

The first episode was the weakest so far. The show improves from there.
I was also relieved it wasn't a botch. Critics coming in first call it "good but generic". If you think you have seen majestic scenery in episode 1, episode 2 will knock you down. Shadar Logoth was amazing. Amazing.

I welcomed the change in Perrin's story. Remember that with out all the build and many of the dialogues about the Trollocs hunting them etc, the heroes need something more substantial to push them ahead than they had in the books.
Also keep in mind that Moraine, as far as I have seen, has not given them a coin to track them like in the books.

If you felt that way about Rand's sweater, wait until you see the Tinkers' blankies - sorry, I mean "robes".

[Zilfer]

Blind viewing, plan to read books after season 1 is done though to see some of the changes and the like. Thus far I have enjoyed it. Brandon Sanderson (the one who finished off the book series) was also a consultant on the show trying to give voice to the fans. He's given a small bit from his perspective on what he told them, what they kept, what they didn't keep, and a bit of an idea of what the showrunner was going for. u/mistborn if you wanted to hunt those down, or I could probably find it again if anyone is interested.

[Gautsu]

Personally, I hate it. If you have to jettison details to cut screen time, fine. If you feel you have to change whole aspects of a dead author's work to make it fi your own ideas, then possibly you shouldn't be making something based off of that IP

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

The first episode was the weakest so far. The show improves from there.

Having now seen up to Ep 3, I agree. I'm still not sure I'd recommend it to a non-fan, but I'm enjoying seeing things come to life that I've imagined for decades. (Shadar Logoth was pretty awesome.) My wife is enjoying as a non-fan, but not loving it yet. That's what I fear, that even at this accelerated pace, the uninitiated will lose patience before it has a chance to get rolling. FWIW, despite all the effort they've put in to obfuscate the answer, my wife has already easily guessed who the actual Dragon Reborn is.

If you felt that way about Rand's sweater, wait until you see the Tinkers' blankies - sorry, I mean "robes".

Eh... seemed pretty on point for dancing on the edge of stereotypical "gypsy" garb while trying not to offend. Much like modern takes on vistani, I'm sure they are trying to steer clear of real Roma garb while keeping the feel of the free-spirited wandering folk trope.

I found myself really liking Thom Merrilin, and also the darkfriend who seems to have been an amalgam of the various darkfriends who Rand and Mat encounter on the way. Shame that Mat's getting recast, the actor is nailing him.
Wonder if Min is getting skipped entirely or put off until later like they did with Thom. I think we ought to have met her by now.

[alhoon]

The actress of Min has been chosen for season 2. I guess Caemlyn is in season 2 and we probably skip most and perhaps the ENTIRE second part of book 1, with the Forsaken and they eye of the world and the blight and the first seal. $$$$$ and all.
I really dislike Thom's actor. He really seems off to me. As for Mat's actor, I like him but I believe the new guy would also be good. Speaking of Mat's portrayal and the actor's awesome take on the slow corruption by the dagger, I am not sure if the jovial Mat has "sunk" with the audience to notice how Mat is turning more and more "dark" and pale.

[alhoon]

Ehmmm... the last episode is a bit ... off-the-rails.
The showrunners had to deal with actor of Matt dropping midway + being informed they have 2 more episodes instead of 4. The last two episodes feel rushed because they are rushed.

Anyway, do not get too dispirited everyone! From what I read from the interview of one of the showrunners, season 2 will cover most of the plots of book 2 and 3 but in a different order. I don't want to give book spoilers so I won't mention things that the show-only persons would recognize. I am concerned Falme will be either omitted or very much shortened. But I am optimistic that a certain someone's trip with a certain woman in parallel worlds will be there and I am looking forward to it.

Thinking on it, 8 episodes for nearly 2 books is ~400 minutes for 2 books. That's 2 big movies for 2 books. It is doable. The budget is certainly movie-sized too.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Yeah, the last episode was weird, but I'm overall happy. I can see why they made most changes, though the butterfly effect will necessitate more changes later because of them. I did particularly like how Rand's confrontation with "the Dark One" had a moral quandary to it and not just a special effects blasting battle.

VIEW CONTENT:

a nice foreshadow of the last battle, if the show makes it that far.

And giving the non-Rand Emond's fielders something to do at the climax was a good change. I saw the interview with the writers where they explained the change with Moiraine, and I can accept it.

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basically, she and Lan don't do much in the next couple of books, and they need to have something meaty to give to their biggest star for the next season

. The Seanchan were awesome to see, though I wish they'd kept the leashes on the a'dams, maybe they are there but not visible in that shot. And what did that little girl on the beach do to deserve a tidal wave to the face?

Looking forward to more.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I am concerned Falme will be either omitted or very much shortened. But I am optimistic that a certain someone's trip with a certain woman in parallel worlds will be there and I am looking forward to it.

Both of these will HAVE to be there, I think. The former is something I think most book fans have been looking forward to since the series was announced.

[alhoon]

Most book fans were also looking to Loial and Perrin doing something useful in the show too, Gon. Or the Dragon Reborn blazing the shadowspawn. Or the Eye of the World being the Eye of the world, not a Sh'angreal in Moraine's pocket.

But to expect in 2022 that we would see chained slaves is a bit too high expectation. I didn't expect to see the leashes. But iconography aside, it makes better sense (and better TV) for the a'dams to be a bracelet and a collar (and the show shows as much) instead of bracelet-leash-collar.

And giving the non-Rand Emond's fielders something to do at the climax was a good change. I saw the interview with the writers where they explained the change with Moiraine, and I can accept it.

What do you mean? What change with Moraine are you talking about, cause there are several.

What particularly irked me was how an Aes Sedai reject led a circle with 5 initiates and wilders and stole Rand's major moment of the book. And aside of the "if 5 untrained/failed Chanellers can do that, what exactly is the threat from the trollocs?" there is the elephant on the wall:
Why on earth these women didn't do that on top of the wall and there were just waiting there to kill the trollocs, in a big empty field where arrows could take them, instead of standing on top of the wall and do the exact same thing, with safety, before Agelmar died?

The show definitely didn't treat its male characters well. As a feminist commentator said, your protagonist needs protagonist moments. A discussion with the Dark One that ends with him doing some weird CG dance using a Sh'angreal provided conveniently for that, is not a protagonist moment. As you said it is ...

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this is a heavy spoiler people!


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the anticlimactic last battle. And I told you in the books that I found that anticlimactic and back then you said you disagreed and found it fitting.

Change Moraine with Nynaeve and throw in Alanna and you have the last battle right there.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Most book fans were also looking to Loial and Perrin doing something useful in the show too, Gon.

What did they do that was so useful in the books at this point?

Or the Dragon Reborn blazing the shadowspawn. Or the Eye of the World being the Eye of the world, not a Sh'angreal in Moraine's pocket.

Point taken, thought I thought that angreal was meant to be the "fat bald man" angreal that comes in later in the books, so I was ok with it. I never did like the idea of the Eye of the World in the books (the Power in liquid form? whuh?) so I wasn't sad to see it go, but conflating the place with the Bore/Shayol Ghul is not great, IMHO.

But to expect in 2022 that we would see chained slaves is a bit too high expectation.

eh... maybe... but I think we can depict things without condoning them, if given context. The a'dams are supposed to be a horrible thing. It's ok to show them as such.

What do you mean? What change with Moraine are you talking about, cause there are several.

I was speaking of her

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ending up stilled, or perhaps shielded with the weave tied off

What particularly irked me was how an Aes Sedai reject led a circle with 5 initiates and wilders and stole Rand's major moment of the book. And aside of the "if 5 untrained/failed Chanellers can do that, what exactly is the threat from the trollocs?" there is the elephant on the wall:
Why on earth these women didn't do that on top of the wall and there were just waiting there to kill the trollocs, in a big empty field where arrows could take them, instead of standing on top of the wall and do the exact same thing, with safety, before Agelmar died?

You're right that this messes up the escalation quite a bit. The next time we see chanellers v. trollocs, it's going to somehow be even more epic. But I don't get the sense that these untrained chanellers expected this outcome. They were going to take out as many as possible before falling, but Amalisa didn't know how much Power she'd be tapping into through Eg and Nynaeve and got more than she bargained for. Yes, 5 untrained chanellers can do that, but only with 3 of them dying (and 1 almost dying).

The show definitely didn't treat its male characters well. As a feminist commentator said, your protagonist needs protagonist moments. A discussion with the Dark One that ends with him doing some weird CG dance using a Sh'angreal provided conveniently for that, is not a protagonist moment. As you said it is ...

VIEW CONTENT:

this is a heavy spoiler people!


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the anticlimactic last battle. And I told you in the books that I found that anticlimactic and back then you said you disagreed and found it fitting.

Change Moraine with Nynaeve and throw in Alanna and you have the last battle right there.

Agreed, it could have used some spice AFTER the rejection of the moral bait. Maybe they should have pulled in

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the missing two forsaken and had him smite them with the power

to cap it off and give him the hero moment. Indeed, I like that they increased the role of the other 4 (particularly the ladies, who I think always should have been considered Ta'veren in the books), but unfortunately at the expense of Rand.