Flesh Golems and The Twisting

[Yulian]

I'm a little surprised that I can't find one reference to this anywhere. Am I really the first person to ask this?

At any rate, I (like so many others) do adore the Carnival supplement. My gaming group has gone over to Pathfinder, so it's basically 3.5e rules.

A character idea that came up was a flesh golem who, by a unique confluence of circumstances came to Isolde's Carnival not as a ravening, rage-filled horrorshow, but relatively rational at that current point in time.

Character sketch: "Julian Adelmann"
Lamordian scientist, late wife, no children, attempt to create a "perfect" scion, etc etc (sometimes the classics work for a reason), but the golem in question was still in the Confusion phase, not quite getting into Betrayal yet, when the local academy of science learned of this "crime against nature". One exceptionally violent chase into the snowy mountains later, and the creature found himself kneeling by his mortally wounded father whose last thoughts, experienced through the mental link, among a few self-aggrandizements and lamenting of the masses being too ignorant to understand his glorious work was a genuine concern and love for his "son", and a hope that though the world would hound and hunt him because they couldn't understand his greatness, he would eventually prove himself "the better man" and rise above the pettiness and unthinking hatreds of the ignorant through laudable achievements and knowledge. This tragic snowscape also leads to the creation of his zeitgeber. When confronted with a sizable field of fresh-fallen snow, he falls to his knees and emits heart-wrenching sobs as he relives his father's death.

This is profound for the grieving golem. The pursuers mostly all dead during the chase, he had no available targets for vengeance, it had already been done. He was alone on the mountain, and had time to dwell on these matters as he began a long trek away from Lamordia, seeking an escape. Also important, the utter absence of any intelligent being to forge a new mental link with, and thus no one to immediately attach to or eventually grow disappointed and contemptuous of.

Little adventuring here and there, maybe did forge a new link, one idea was that this individual was a recluse, maybe an old hedge witch, ostracized from the local community in Tepest, who died of natural causes before the golem could hit a deep, active Betrayal stage. Yet again, he experiences support from a human being, sees that humans can be treated as he is treated and while some humans are worthy of contempt and judgment, at least a few are not.

At this point he is pretty well educated across a variety of subjects: his father taught him of the sciences and etiquette, the hedge witch taught him of the natural world, and he has yet to engage in any particularly horrid atrocities. He's hardly innocent; he has indulged in vengeance for attacks or hounding, he has stolen to survive and thrive, he has used brutal intimidation to get what he wants, but has also done good deeds as well, sometimes anonymously (yes, like with the farmers in the Mary Shelley's Frankenstein film by Branagh), sometimes while disguising his true nature (he isn't so freakishly mismatched that he can't wear a long coat, hat, and scarf to seem just like a very large man). He even provided some knowledge, quietly, to help a village hit with a small epidemic illness, and quickly left with their gratitude before they could discover his true nature.

It's around then he runs across the Carnival. He's floored. Freakish intelligent beings of every variety, accepting of their flaws and wonders. He stalks it for weeks. He's stealthy; some Troupers suspect something, but nobody catches him for a while. Eventually, he gets sloppy, maybe it's pure luck, maybe a part of him wants to be found out. He's all but fearless due to his great physical power, so he doesn't flee when discovered. The Carnival's brain trust (Claude, Tindal, Professor Arcanus, and The Wraith) quickly suss out what he is, and they can't quite understand why he isn't the raging, wretched monster he's supposed to be. The potential is there - he absolutely carries a seething, terrible anger at his core, but he's intelligent, polite, well-spoken, and deeply curious. He's also a bit arrogant, stubborn, wary, survival-oriented, and prone to show off his knowledge and abilities. Flaws yes, but not crippling or dangerous to those around him. Isolde is intrigued. She has no truck with the undead, but he, though his parts had been dead, is instead a new type of life. She lets him stay, so long as he follows the usual rules, reasoning that he'd make a powerful asset, could support several types of acts (he even plays keyed instruments), and has known hardship and suffering through no fault of his own, simply by nature of what he is.

He's adapting to life as a Trouper. He gets to travel safely, find interesting tomes of knowledge and artifacts, and already had an appreciation for the arts that has only been expanded by seeing the new and unique acts of many other Troupers. He is becoming firm friends with Professor Arcanus due to their shared interests and past regrets, and even The Wraith finds him engaging, though Elthryn's tactlessness has made him the subject of Julian's anger on a few occasions. Fortunately, the golem's rage now often takes the form of truly epic angry tirades and broken furniture rather then an attempt to immediately kill every living thing in sight. His great strength and his intelligence make him very useful to the Carnival as a whole and he can function as a demi-wisp, provided he covers the terrible scars of his creation. His face carries some unusual dark coloration around his lips and eyes (can be hidden with makeup), but has only one major scar.

He has also begun to develop something new and unexpected. Learning of the betrayal and trapping of Isolde (he eventually figured out what she is in a general sense and they have had several discussions about her willingness to accept him and whether he is just a "dark spirit" as the van Richten's guide states or whether he does have a soul) he sought out some of the remaining members of Pacali's ill-fated conspiracy and spoke to them about their reasons why, wanting to learn more about what motivated humans to well-intentioned but tragic acts, such as the one that created him. The Fire Eater's longing for a normal life that she couldn't even remember and could never have struck a chord in him, as for him, there was no "normal" to ever return to, as he had been created different than humanity from the beginning. He also understood the anger that burned within Charlotte, and the raging passions that drove her to her ill-advised actions. As their friendship develops, he has begun to feel something more, something he doesn't yet fully understand. As for her, she has learned through incidental contact that he is immune to fire (his origins leave him vulnerable to cold, as well as acid) and does not shy from her touch. His progression has made his scarring less angry, and he is not hideously mismatched, as his father took care to try and create symmetry where he could (he was lucky enough to get a set of twins who died in a mining accident for the arms and shoulders. Time will tell where this may lead.


So, that out of the way (first time I really wrote that all out in long form) what effects would The Twisting have on a flesh golem? He's already festooned with great scars at the attachment points and several front and back on the torso, mostly central, where his skin was shut after organ placement, not unlike autopsy cuts, so a new physical deformity is unlikely.

One idea I'd had was "wish with a price". The Twisting is granting a desire, to be "the better man" and thus, more truly human, but at the cost of some of his flesh golem abilities or immunities - like an increased need to eat, the ability to suffocate, maybe a new vulnerability to certain spells or psionic effects. I want to keep the strength, durability, and regeneration, as those are kind of at the heart of being a flesh golem, but I want this to feel unique and interesting,

So, feedback? Ideas? Suggestions?

- Yulian

[Nathan of the FoS]

With this background, I would at least consider going for the full Pinocchio line you seem to be mulling: the Twisting is slowly turning him into a "real boy," at least physically. Does he want that? If he lets it go to completion, would some kind of ensoulment also occur? How would he know? Would it end or alter his burgeoning relationship with the Fire Eater?

This is pretty simple, but I think it could be quite effective, and the set-up is certainly in place for it.

[Yulian]

See, this is why I felt posting the BG was important, as it definitely effects any potential Twisting.

I was also curious if what he is would change any way the Twisting acts on him. He is not a "natural" being, he has herculean resistance and immunities to certain magical effects, but we're looking at a reality wrinkle here.

So in addition to what would "normally" happen, given the highly variable nature of Twisting effects, would simply being a flesh golem change the nature of what happens as well? I was thinking about Mister ? while I wrote this. He's also a golem, and it's radically unclear what, if anything, the Twisting has done to "him", but he's also not in any way biological or biologically derived.

The "turning into an actual human" thing is the first thing that comes to mind, but I was also wondering if maybe there were other ideas just as good to explore aside from the obvious, not that I don't like that, too.

I'd doubt it could complete a transition to being fully human, as it would be a case of the twisting not really doing what Isolde likes it to do. "Normal man" as an end result isn't her speed at all, and I think Twisting into a human, then Twisting further still to reflect his inner nature as a human would be too much.

However, the notion of it peeling away some of his more devastatingly powerful immunities (and replacing them with what, though?) while it "humanized" him is viable to an extent. My first post mulled him losing almost all his innate immunities, like suddenly needing to breathe, to eat regularly, being vulnerable to mind-effecting spells and psionics, etc.

The question also is, what does he get in exchange? In what way is he "more real" as he loses these powers? And I would absolutely say it concerns him greatly. Fiction is full of artificial beings that want to be real but it doesn't always explore what would be a really almost traumatic loss of abilities one had one's whole existence.

The soul question is also very much at the core of this. To quote the Branagh film, "And what of my soul, do I have one? Or is that a part you left out?" He'd be almost desperate to get an answer from Isolde, one she simply might not be able to provide.

And finally, while being subject to more human-standard emotions of more subtlety than he came equipped with, I'd say it would absolutely complicate things with the Fire-Eater as well. He is lacking context or experience, and as he loses immunities, he'd be concerned that his capacity to touch her may also go if it progresses far enough, but he doesn't know where it may stop. Would he forge ahead and hope, even if that happens, that he can hold the experience if it ends, would he hope for some solution if it does, or would he hope it just never gets that far? Does he stop things early on because it may end?

This needn't wallow in pure tragedy, but damned if there isn't drama to be mined.

[Resonant Curse]

There was a 3rd edition prestige class for Warforged that I believe is the "Reforged" where they become closer to biological creatures at the cost of some of their former protections. It might be something to look at.

[Jeremy16]

This is an intriguing concept. The only way I would see a flesh golem getting along at the Carnival is pretty much the path you've outlined here. Most are inhuman anti-social monsters and would probably be put down.

As for your idea, piggybacking off of Nathan, why not make him weaker or smaller the more he gets angry? Kind of like a reverse Hulk. It could help underline the duality of his nature.

The more he indulges in the "fits of rage" that mark his kind the more he is "punished" by losing his unnatural resistances and abilities. Imagine how weird it would be not be hurt by fire, throw a temper tantrum, then realize that you are now getting burnt by the flames!

On the flip side, if he keeps his temper in check he get to keep his superhuman abilities. And whenever he is confronted he has to remain calm, cool, and logical (traits golems are not known for) in order to keep his strength and survive the encounter.

I think it could be an interesting Catch-22, but not sure if that is what you were looking for.

[Yulian]

This is an intriguing concept. The only way I would see a flesh golem getting along at the Carnival is pretty much the path you've outlined here. Most are inhuman anti-social monsters and would probably be put down.

As for your idea, piggybacking off of Nathan, why not make him weaker or smaller the more he gets angry? Kind of like a reverse Hulk. It could help underline the duality of his nature.

The more he indulges in the "fits of rage" that mark his kind the more he is "punished" by losing his unnatural resistances and abilities. Imagine how weird it would be not be hurt by fire, throw a temper tantrum, then realize that you are now getting burnt by the flames!

On the flip side, if he keeps his temper in check he get to keep his superhuman abilities. And whenever he is confronted he has to remain calm, cool, and logical (traits golems are not known for) in order to keep his strength and survive the encounter.

I think it could be an interesting Catch-22, but not sure if that is what you were looking for.

Hmm...the weakness, isn't that pretty much Alfred Timothy's of Verbrek almost exactly? Not that that's a bad idea, mind you. It has precedent, after all.

Thanks for noticing the path leading to the Carnival. I gave it a lot of thought and the circumstances would have to be pretty specific, and the timing just right, to allow for it. Not that it doesn't also carry a great measure of tragedy for him to lose 2 people who genuinely cared for him in succession, despite the result of keeping him in the early stages of flesh golem development far longer than would otherwise be the case. He carries immense grief with him and I genuinely think I hit that just right with his zeitgeber being an expression of that, as well as uncommon, but far from impossible to encounter.

Back to the weakness, that isn't bad, as I said. It's got genuine crunch penalties as well as being evocative. I'm still wondering if anyone thinks that being a flesh golem would at all effect The Twisting itself. So far, the consensus seems to be "no", he's as vulnerable to it as any "natural" animal life.

Back again to Nathan's suggestion. If he's moving towards becoming "real", what would he get in exchange for losing some immunities that makes him "more real"? Flesh golems are flat-out superior to humans in a host of ways, but what makes them tragic monsters seems mostly due to their innately unstable psychology and appearance. The Twisting always carries a "gift" to go with whatever it takes, what "gift" would it grant as it remolds him into more of a man?

Liking the suggestions so far, again surprised I can't find anything for this before, not even after Wretched Creations in the netbook way back when.

[Yulian]

Oh, little additional note. Appearance wise, I am getting kind of inspired by some of the cover and end-book art for The Crow graphic novel because unlike Brandon Lee's handsome mug, the character in that is a mess. Discolored skin, massive scarring, he's really creepy and unsettling, very much what your average denizen of Ravenloft would want on the end of a pitchfork.

Look at this:







This is pretty clearly not hot.

[Manofevil]

This whole exchange reminds me of this one between Data and Spock, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YahVhEZ55FI

[Yulian]

I like that exchange and that seems to be the consensus, though there do seem to be several ways to approach it - he's being given something that helps him approach humanity but he's losing or having made conditional some of the advantages he was created with.

So far, I'm definitely getting some of the answers I was looking for (even if they are just opinions, they're pretty consistent and help me move into the specifics of what I was looking for).

The Twisting: if it's biological and not a Darklord, it works as per usual. I can definitely go with this.

As for the last bit, still have a few ideas on what "more human" is in addition to "more vulnerable" and would like to hear some other takes. Maybe he's gaining a measure of self-control flesh golems normally entirely lack, maybe a Wis save bonus. Maybe his unnatural nature is blunted around animals and they don't instinctively panic. Maybe the innate and instant prejudice the created are subject to is reduced to some extent based more on "large and massively scarred" and less "hideously dangerous monster", at least on initial meetings (maybe Outcast rating is reduced by 1 or something).

And the big one - Is he still a Construct or might he go all the way to Humanoid? I'm reluctant to go that far, but depending on what he gets, I still have to decide if I want to go with removing his immunity to mental effects or even crits. I'm reluctant to go as far as the latter unless I go the "Alfred Timothy weakness" route and then only when that's active.

Anything else? This is going well and I think I can get a workable char (with appropriate level adjustments) out of this.