Why is Victor Mordenhiem a woman now?

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alhoon
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Re: Why is Victor Mordenhiem a woman now?

Post by alhoon »

Mephisto wrote:
alhoon wrote:I could totally see Gennifer in a wheelchair. With her werewolf being OK.
Also Genifer weathermay now uses druid stats while being mentioned as a wizard
Why would her werewolf form be OK?
Because I prefer the "pull" of darkness that "I may be a monster but at least I am not stuck in a wheelchair" that comes with it.
It can easily be explained through the shapechanging: Her werewolf's form spine is fine.
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Re: Why is Victor Mordenhiem a woman now?

Post by Jester of the FoS »

Mephisto wrote:
Jester of the FoS wrote:I imagine they immediately went to the (tired) idea Holmes and Watson were gay lovers (which is a huge pet peeve of mine for many reasons). And then later in the development they decided they needed a character in a wheelchair, but wanted it to be a hero. And since there was only a small number of heroic characters, it was either Ray, Sedgewick, or one of the Weathermay-Foxglove sisters.

And they picked the wrong character...
If that is the case Van Richten would be more appropriate I guess. Kind of Dr. X, mentor of adventurers.
Hanbaoge wrote:Now that's an idea......would put a whole new spin (and really interesting, as far as I'm concerned) on the twins if Gennifer was disabled thanks to Natalia Vhorishkova‎'s attack, especially as a twist on the "stay at home where it's safe, girls" motif........
I was actually thinking Arthur Sedgewick.
Watson is always shown as having a limp after suffering a war injury. It works with the inspiration of the character to just extend that to being in a wheelchair.
It fits the "Watson" archetype and avoids the overdone trope of having the intellectual/ mental leader character in a wheelchair.

Similarly, I'd have just kept Sedgewick as gay and married to someone else.

Holmes and Watson being portrayed as lovers is problematic, as I've said many times before. It feeds into stereotypes of toxic masculinity, where two men can't have a close bond without want to have sex. Men aren't allowed close friendships.
And Holmes was always this rare asexual character in fiction. Which is erased by making him just gay.
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Re: Why is Victor Mordenhiem a woman now?

Post by Mephisto of the FoS »

Jester of the FoS wrote:Holmes and Watson being portrayed as lovers is problematic, as I've said many times before. It feeds into stereotypes of toxic masculinity, where two men can't have a close bond without want to have sex.

Men aren't allowed close friendships.
Not in my bubble

Jester of the FoS wrote:And Holmes was always this rare asexual character in fiction. Which is erased by making him just gay.
Well there is the encounter with Irene Adler, were Holmes usually is portrayed of having a romantic interest to (but in Doyle's story, Holmes exhibits just a platonic admiration for her wit and cunning).

Speaking of Irene Adler if we take the non-gay Alanik version who would Adler be?
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Re: Why is Victor Mordenhiem a woman now?

Post by Jester of the FoS »

Mephisto wrote:
Jester of the FoS wrote:Holmes and Watson being portrayed as lovers is problematic, as I've said many times before. It feeds into stereotypes of toxic masculinity, where two men can't have a close bond without want to have sex.

Men aren't allowed close friendships.
Not in my bubble
Or mine. But it took me a long time to break past the discomfort of toxic masculinity to be able to hug my best friend or tell him I love him.

But too often in popular culture or larger society that's just not a thing. People adding "no homo" to the end of actions or statements. And in media, close male bonds tends to invariably be 'shipped.
Mephisto wrote:
Jester of the FoS wrote:And Holmes was always this rare asexual character in fiction. Which is erased by making him just gay.
Well there is the encounter with Irene Adler, were Holmes usually is portrayed of having a romantic interest to (but in Doyle's story, Holmes exhibits just a platonic admiration for her wit and cunning).

Speaking of Irene Adler if we take the non-gay Alanik version who would Adler be?
In the books and many more book accurate portrayals (and even the modern day BBC version) Holmes' interest in Irene is aromantic and purely mental. It's a platonic respect.
But it becomes romantic in most versions because TV and movies can't handle asexual characters. The idea of someone without sexual urges is just a bridge too far.
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Re: Why is Victor Mordenhiem a woman now?

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Jester of the FoS wrote:Or mine. But it took me a long time to break past the discomfort of toxic masculinity to be able to hug my best friend or tell him I love him.
Everything is being reframed in this light. In the past, words had different meanings or cultural contexts. It was normal for men to express love for their male friends in letters, for example. Now this is being misunderstood, or perhaps quite deliberately understood, as an expression of homosexuality. When I was a kid, boys would go arm in arm around the shoulders when walking around. Not so now because they could be ridiculed (or even praised!) for being 'gay'.
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Re: Why is Victor Mordenhiem a woman now?

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Jester of the FoS wrote:Or mine. But it took me a long time to break past the discomfort of toxic masculinity to be able to hug my best friend or tell him I love him.
Not to go too off-topic, but this went spectacularly terribly for me. Happy I did it, as I learned and grew from it, but I'll always remember those wounds from the heartbreak and what I had to go through while they slowly closed. Especially since all I wanted was a deeper relationship. Better to be true to myself and my needs than to stifle an entire side of my being forever though.

It would just be nice if masculinity weren't so inherently toxic absolutely everywhere.

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Re: Why is Victor Mordenhiem a woman now?

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Jester of the FoS wrote:
In the books and many more book accurate portrayals (and even the modern day BBC version) Holmes' interest in Irene is aromantic and purely mental.
Asexuals from what I know, at least from an asexual friend of mine, are not interested in the physical part of a relationship. They can have romantic feelings. The one I talk about is not in what I would describe as a romantic relationship nor seeks one but from what that person told me it is not the same for all asexuals.
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Re: Why is Victor Mordenhiem a woman now?

Post by Drinnik Shoehorn »

Just as a note, I’m sure ages ago Ryan Naylor said if he could have he would have made Alanik gay in VRA.

And when John Mangrum was doing his Teeny Tales of Terror (which someone really should collate, or if you read John, can you donate a copy to the Frat?) when I contributed my entry for the Hebi-no-ana, I explicitly made them gay, so Alanik and Arthur being a couple isn’t a new idea for the book.
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Re: Why is Victor Mordenhiem a woman now?

Post by onmyoji »

Drinnik Shoehorn wrote:And when John Mangrum was doing his Teeny Tales of Terror (which someone really should collate, or if you read John, can you donate a copy to the Frat?) when I contributed my entry for the Hebi-no-ana, I explicitly made them gay, so Alanik and Arthur being a couple isn’t a new idea for the book.
I hope you mean "Hebi no Onna" 蛇の女, meaning "snake woman," rather than "Hebi no Ana" 蛇の穴, meaning "snake hole." A "snake hole" could be a place in the ground where snakes live. However, "ana" ("hole") frequently appears in sexual euphemisms and double entendres, so use with caution.

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Re: Why is Victor Mordenhiem a woman now?

Post by Rock of the Fraternity »

Drinnik Shoehorn wrote:Just as a note, I’m sure ages ago Ryan Naylor said if he could have he would have made Alanik gay in VRA.

And when John Mangrum was doing his Teeny Tales of Terror (which someone really should collate, or if you read John, can you donate a copy to the Frat?) when I contributed my entry for the Hebi-no-ana, I explicitly made them gay, so Alanik and Arthur being a couple isn’t a new idea for the book.

Some people have analyzed Holmes and Watson, the inspiration for Ray and Sedgewick, as having had a recurring romance. Yes, Watson gets married, but who does he run to and move back in with when his wife dies? That's right, Holmes.
Ray and Sedgewick being a homosexual couple really isn't that strange.
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Re: Why is Victor Mordenhiem a woman now?

Post by Jester of the FoS »

Rock wrote:Some people have analyzed Holmes and Watson, the inspiration for Ray and Sedgewick, as having had a recurring romance. Yes, Watson gets married, but who does he run to and move back in with when his wife dies? That's right, Holmes.
Ray and Sedgewick being a homosexual couple really isn't that strange.
Which I've had a problem with for years as well.
Just like the people insisting Sam and Frodo were lovers, or even Batman and Robin.
Any affection between men is interpreted as sexual. And that's messed up...
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Re: Why is Victor Mordenhiem a woman now?

Post by Rock of the Fraternity »

To be fair, there are people who will analyze any kind of affection as having a sexual nature.

And that's not even the most messed-up thing people have done to great literature that I know of. :-/
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Re: Why is Victor Mordenhiem a woman now?

Post by Mephisto of the FoS »

Jester of the FoS wrote:Just like the people insisting Sam and Frodo were lovers, or even Batman and Robin.
I 'll have to argue with that... Codependent relationship? :mrgreen: (just trolling...)
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Re: Why is Victor Mordenhiem a woman now?

Post by Hanbaoge »

Rock wrote:

Some people have analyzed Holmes and Watson, the inspiration for Ray and Sedgewick, as having had a recurring romance. Yes, Watson gets married, but who does he run to and move back in with when his wife dies? That's right, Holmes.
Ray and Sedgewick being a homosexual couple really isn't that strange.
No, it's not strange, nor is it even a problem - the problem is the way it was presented in VRG:R, with no warning, lead-up, or backstory. Sure, sexuality should be so normal that no one thinks to mention it, but the way they wrote it came across as pandering and something shoved in at the last minute, as opposed to something naturally flowing from the story - not to mention, all the "pat ourselves on the back, look how inclusive and modern we are" announcements plastered all over DnDBeyond.
Jester of the FoS wrote: Which I've had a problem with for years as well.
Just like the people insisting Sam and Frodo were lovers, or even Batman and Robin.
Any affection between men is interpreted as sexual. And that's messed up...
And that's before we realize that Robin was a minor for the longest time.......which creates all sorts of problematic by itself, even before it pulls in the outdated stereotype.......
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Re: Why is Victor Mordenhiem a woman now?

Post by alhoon »

Drinnik Shoehorn wrote:Just as a note, I’m sure ages ago Ryan Naylor said if he could have he would have made Alanik gay in VRA.

And when John Mangrum was doing his Teeny Tales of Terror (which someone really should collate, or if you read John, can you donate a copy to the Frat?) when I contributed my entry for the Hebi-no-ana, I explicitly made them gay, so Alanik and Arthur being a couple isn’t a new idea for the book.
I think he said they did made them a couple for the Gazetteers and that Athaus turned them back by deleting the "my sweet, sweet, Arthur" reference somewhere.
As a note, Alanik Ray will outlive Arthur by a long time.
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