Modified Firearm Rounds

[impworks]

Alongside all the technical merits / disadvantages of early firearms there was the psychological effect they had which according to some accounts was far more than the actual number of casualties they caused.

[ewancummins]

http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/foru ... 8328#98328

I've added a couple of house rules for guns IMC. They are cheaper, easier to use, and slower to load. These rules are still not very realistic simulation, but what about D&D combat is, anyway?

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Come to think of it, Ravenloft characters would have another reason to use multiple shot (ball, buckshot, whatever) in a single load: they may not know what sort of substance will damage their opponent, so could load a weapon with two or more substances to improve their chances of penetrating DR. Better half damage than none, eh?

[ewancummins]

Come to think of it, Ravenloft characters would have another reason to use multiple shot (ball, buckshot, whatever) in a single load: they may not know what sort of substance will damage their opponent, so could load a weapon with two or more substances to improve their chances of penetrating DR. Better half damage than none, eh?

Good point.

Something else to conisder in a campaign with guns would be a combination weapon such as a gun spear with a silver-plated head. That could be pretty useful versus some monsters.

[Guardian of Twilight]

I'm sorry it's taken me this long to respond to all of your great advice, but I've been incredibly busy these last couple of months. I've discussed it with my players and we've all decided to go with Jester's view from the first page. We felt that it would best reflect our own thoughts on the matter that we were in debate about. Again, thank you to everyone that helped out, and I've really enjoyed reading all of the different views that have been expressed here.

[Guardian of Twilight]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but a player of mine asked me a question that I wasn't sure how to answer, and all of you gave such wonderful advice on this same basic subject. I also figured that a few of you may have had the same situation occur in one of your games.

A player of mine asked me recently about melting down his silver pieces to make silver rounds for his pistol, and how many silver pieces it would take to create a full set of ten. Does anyone happen to know this, by any chance? Thank you for your help.

[A G Thing]

I would say about one and a half to two rounds, per gold, silver or copper piece... By D&D coin weight and the listings in the RCS books, the ratio of coins to pounds, is 50 coins to 1lb. But the listing for ammo for muskets and pistols is 10 shots for 2lbs. This seems unrealistic in weight to me a bit. Even for lead.

Now considering the shot is lead but small, then you can probably lower the weight of such specialty shot by 1 to 1 1/2 pounds as well.

Of course if you wish to apply this adjusted weight to the shot then you might perhaps wish to know how this compares to the weight ratios of the precious metals...

50gp = 1lb so if you use standard weight of the shot which is two pounds gold bullets would cost 100 gp per 10 which is ridiculus. Now if the weight was lowered to say .5 of a lb for 10 shots then the amount would decrease by 75% thus making it 25 gp. Of course gold is lighter than lead so the shot would reflect this, so I would once more cut the weight of it in half. 12 gp total for 10 golden bullets at 0.25 lbs... Now this would also reflect to a slight extent the gold lost from the smelting process.

Of course once more you are making the bullets and not the direct value attached to them so if you where to lower the price any further I would only lower it by a maximum of say 4 gp or the equivilent peices since the weight/size of the coins is considered to be the same through out.

So a decent stat adjustment for such would I think be so...

Standard Lead shot: simply reduce weight to 0.5 pounds. Cost for materials will vary by dm or campaign for crafting.

Gold shot: 12 to 8 gp, 10 shots, 0.25 lbs

Silver shot: 12 to 8 sp, 10 shots, 0.25 lbs

Copper shot: 12 to 8 cp, 10 shots, 0.25 lbs

ect, ect, ect....

I would also suggest if using this method that you lower the lead shots weight to at least 1 lb. This is really not that big an issue as they also must carry powder for each shot and the gun it's self is heavier.

But as for if you wish to just plug in these suggestions then I would have to say just halve the weight of specialty shot to one pound and then give a price equal to 15 - 12 coins in materials. DC would probably be low but would require a smelting kit, a bullet mold or ball clamp, and of course an amount of the metal to be used. MW of course should cost perhaps slightly more but it seems hard to justify more than perhaps adding one coin per two spent if you are crafting such...

If sold than market price should probably just be about 1 1/2 to 2 times the coins used in the materials if that should come up. So the range of market price is probably 18 to 30 coins for such efforts, of the same value as the materials.

Hope this works for ya!

[Guardian of Twilight]

It does indeed, thank you!! May I respectfully ask where you learned all of this from? I know that some people have real life experience for a base and then just add D&D experience to it. And I'm sure that my player is going to love the fact that he can make his own specialty rounds. Would Craft (smelting) or Craft (firearms) be needed to make the rounds?

[A G Thing]

Just using relative deduction, more than any real life experience. I have however handled plenty of my families antique gun shot, and muskets so I know how to gauge the weight. My grandfather also loves to use and collect antique tools so I learn about them when ever I visit.

As for the fact of the coins it is more just using the understanded D&D template and basing it on the coins of historic description.

I then reduced them both by a reasonable ratio to make it both realistic and still applicable to the game rules.

Now as for the applicable skills I would apply both craft armorsmithing, weaponsmithing, or firearms. Then again I believe that anybody who deals in metals such as jewelry or even simple blacksmiths could preform this but unless prepared I believe they would not have the mold or ball clamp, for making the shot. Different metals have different melting points and thus it takes some knowledge of such but that is more based on the number of skill points the player has. I assume any Artisans Kit for weapon forging would contain most of the neccessary equipment. A mold could be made fairly easily with clay or even wood prepared right. The ball clamp I would rule is only available to a CL 8 area, and only in a MW Artisans Weaponsmith kit. Once melted and the heating is done, it is just a matter of pouring, watching and cooling the metal. So I would make it an easy check (DC 10) but if you wish you can increase the DC for the more valuable metals or those who would have to do such unexperienced they would have perhaps a +2 to a +5.

A mold will most times last through out the forging, but on a failure they should brake or burn the mold and have to remake it, which should add at least 4 hours if clay, and 2 hours if wood and ruin all the shot in the mold. If metal it should never brake, and a masterwork kit should have a metal mold and or ball clamp. Clay molds will be present in most kits as well that apply to detailed metal work.

Molds can make up to 10 shot in one pour but requires cooling time. A clamp makes one shot each scoop but can be cooled faster. Thus time in actual production is easy, but the refining by triming mold lines and smoothing the ball to fit the barrel evenly adds considerable amount of small effort. So just 5 minutes of prep after, per shot I would say to prepare them for safe undamaging firing.

Sorry for the second long winded explaination... But glad I could help!!!

[Guardian of Twilight]

Not at all, I found it most intriguing! And thank you so very much for helping me out. If I can help you in the future, please let me know.

[jules]

How about a jalapeno round?

[A G Thing]

Guardian of Twilight said...
Not at all, I found it most intriguing! And thank you so very much for helping me out. If I can help you in the future, please let me know.

Well I am glad I can help... And I may just ask for such help some time so thank you!!!

Jules said...
How about a jalapeno round?

Other than soaking the bullets in the oils and such, all I can say is perhaps to cram jalapeno's, down a Blunderbus and fire...

[Guardian of Twilight]

Guardian of Twilight said...
Not at all, I found it most intriguing! And thank you so very much for helping me out. If I can help you in the future, please let me know.

Well I am glad I can help... And I may just ask for such help some time so thank you!!!

I look forward to it then, my friend.

[High Priest Mikhal]

How about a jalapeno round?

I don't think Josė Jalapeño-On-A-Stick would like that. Doesn't he suffer enough with a stick shoved up his @$$? Now we want to shove a bullet up there?

[jules]

I remember reading once that they fired hard cheeses at the enemy & won!
This MIGHT make a good modified round for guns/cannons!