An Illustrated History of the Core

Discussing all things Ravenloft
Matthew L. Martin
Arch-villain
Arch-villain
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:49 pm
Contact:

Re: An Illustrated History of the Core

Post by Matthew L. Martin »

Ryan Naylor wrote: 769 BC: The Shadow Sorcerer appears on Ansalon (Dragonlance). She may be an avatar of Takhisis the Queen of Darkness. But who really cares?
Lies and propaganda out of Goldmoon's Nightmare (published as the War of Souls trilogy). She's really the alter-ego/mental projection of Malystryx the Red. At least, that was the original plan, back when Mina was the reincarnated Kitiara instead of a lost godling.

One possibility for connecting Krynn and Ravenloft that could make for an interesting twist: when I found out about the 'stealing of Krynn', one of my first thoughts was 'what if instead of bringing Soth back to Krynn, Takhisis brought Krynn to Soth? It'd be the perfect place to hide it from her fellow gods . . . '

If She’s LN (as the Home Faith says), this’ll probably be LN again (although very different in outlook to the Home Faith). If She’s TN (as the Dementlieuvian sect says), this’ll be NE.
What if she's LG, per the Mordentish sect? It could be NG--"the Hollow has corroded the Grand Scheme, and all is now lost in darkness. Save who and what you can." And if the Darkonese sect is right, you probably wind up with the NE version you described.
770: Tara Kolyana (this generation’s incarnation of Tatyana) is the same age that Strahd was when he made his pact with Death. What would he do with an aged Tatyana? Would he be repulsed at her age? Would he be drawn to her more? I think this is Strahd’s seminal decision here: does he realise that he and Tatyana had nothing in common, and his attraction for her was just obsession and desire for her youth, or not? (Inajira has been biding his time in Barovia, right at Strahd’s doorstep for years, presumably to wreak revenge at just such a time; he’d definitely be involved here).
One idea I played with--although John didn't seem to care for it--was that Azalin, frustrated with losing S as Irik's mother and suffering from his typical tunnel vision/blindness to consequences in the endgame, gave into his desire to spite Strahd and tapped Tara to replace her. That could throw a whole bunch of spanners into the works . . .
Ryan Naylor
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 1285
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:55 pm

Re: An Illustrated History of the Core

Post by Ryan Naylor »

Jimsolo wrote:There's always things I would have liked to have seen. I'd really have liked to have seen Drakov successfully invade and crush the bejeezus out of someone. Borca, preferably.
The important thing about his curse of course is that Drakov can have military victories, provided they're not meaningful to him or enduring. So Borca (ruled by a woman and a fop) is the perfect place to have him stretch his muscles. And then, of course, he comes face to face (figuratively; or if Malocchio gets free, or if Vigo has similar powers, literally) with Strahd and gets humiliated again. :)
I really like the 'man-in-the-iron-mask' routine, but I think that Dominic is just the sort of petulant tantrum-thrower who would keep his domain closed indefinitely. Still, it would have been really easy to write something in to get around that.
My understanding of it is that it requires some concentration (perhaps at a subconscious level) - you have to want to stop people getting out. So if he sleeps, the borders open. If he loses the spite, the borders open. If he's drugged and can't focus, the borders open. The would actually make it worse for everyone, because instead of Dementlieu being completely isolated or completely normal, the borders would open and close randomly as Dominic gains and loses interest in it.

Or perhaps the Brain bribes him with female company if he keeps the borders open.

On a tangential note, I always thought closing the borders was about imprisonment - they keep people in, but have no effect on people trying to get in. But it seems I was the only one who believed that, and 3rd ed RL canonically makes them work both ways. Oh well.
I've never been a huge fan of the Shadow Rift.
Obviously. I think the important thing about a Great Old One is that they stay as a threat, or distant from the world in some way (e.g. at the bottom of the sea). While they'll break in/wake up eventually, it's important to keep ensuring that today is not the day, and that's enough of a victory.

I don't mind the Shadow Rift as a mysterious ominous canyon, but I see it as more of a place for adventures to come from than to take place in.
What's up with Lamordia? Would you have Aubrecker kick the bucket? Any significant developments on that front?
Yes, and his daughter takes over.

Adam and Mordenheim are too inwardly focused to really have much presence in this scenario, and Lamordia reflects that inward presence. I imagine it would stay neutral: Adam certainly doesn't care what Falkovnia's doing provided they don't bother him. However, I can see two ways they'd get involved: arms or mercenary supply to Falkovnia via Neufurchtenburg, or Mordenheim inventing a Doomsday Weapon and offering to sell it to the highest bidder (perhaps as a by-product of his normal research - "I was experimenting with a new type of power source, when I began to wonder if it could be weaponised. It was a trivial problem to solve, and I have also reduced my lab's dependance on coal for the generator. I have named the process after the smallest species of fey, the atomie...")

Steve Miller's original plan (I believe) involved PCs learning how things were going to go down in the Final Days and then travelling back in time with the knowledge of all the things they have to do to stop the end of the world. (He seems to be a man who likes the idea of time travel as much as I do). Mordenheim would certainly be interested in building a time machine to prevent Elise's mangling, so perhaps you could use that instead. And Adam, of course, would oppose that. And who wouldn't want to buy a chance to travel back and fix a few regrets here and there?

I used that idea in a previous campaign, based on the Doctor Who novel Anachrophobia. It worked really well.
So...I had never heard that Darklords inside of a Reality Wrinkle were cut off from their domain. I personally don't think I would run it that way, myself, because I think it seriously cuts down on the weight that a Darklord carries. Making the fiend immune to the Darklord's powers is one thing, but having the Reality Wrinkle cut the Darklord off seems like a totally separate one. Then again, you're a professional writer, and I am a hack with only two publishing credits to my name, so what do I know?
Chapter 5 of RL3e, in the section on reality wrinkles. But it's been a part of the system since VRGtF. The fiend supplants the darklord within its reality wrinkle, and the lord loses their lord powers - closing the borders, the lord is the land, mastery. In this case, I'd say Ivan and Ivana keep their immunity to poison, poison touch and persistence (so they don't suddenly age 50 years), but they can't close the borders, Borca doesn't reflect their mood, and if they had animal/undead minions, they don't get a Will save bonus. But it all comes back as soon as the fiend moves on. And if the fiend wasn't immune to poison, they could still try to poison it.
I really disliked the Spellplague, although I thought that several of the writers who were involved with it did a great job. (Specifically Richard Lee Byers and RA Salvatore) I like it a lot more now that I can justify it being completely Hazlik's fault. As a middle finger from the Dark Powers, though, I would have many, many of the Mulan who disappeared from Faerun wind up in Ravenloft. (Red Wizards in Darkon, anyone?) These 'immigrant' Mulan are totally beyond Hazlik's ability to wipe out, and although he did, technically, succeed in destroying all Mulan beyond Ravenloft's borders, he'll never know it, and only see his own niggling failures.
There's another thread on this. The spell was intended to wipe out all Mulan everywhere, in RL and out. I think there's enough knock on effects to keep Hazlik busy (like being haunted by the spirit or memory of Eleni, his nightmares, and the chaos that breaks out in Hazlan when the entire ruling class vanishes) that he doesn't need this. Essentially, there are other ways to make his victory ashes in his mouth. That I prefer.
I love the idea of the Inquisition becoming twisted and evil (-er) and killing Wyan. I'd love to see more activity from the hags, though. I'd personally like to see them taking an active role in spreading misery around Tepest, treating the whole place like their own micro-Ravenloft, with themselves as the Dark Powers, tormenting anyone unlucky enough to wind up there in subtle, unique, and twisted ways.
That's exactly how I see them. :)

An important point though is that the Inquisition is not completely wrong. They might be excessive, but they're not completely wrong. It's more of a parable about good intentions leading to hell than anything else.
I may crib some of this for my own game, if that's alright.
Feel free.
Ryan Naylor
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 1285
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:55 pm

Re: An Illustrated History of the Core

Post by Ryan Naylor »

Mortavius wrote:As others have said, you have done a fantastic job with this. You should be justifiably proud.

As to your end-times post, can you think of anything that would happen with some of the domains not mentioned? Lamordia is a personal favorite of mine, but what about Valachan, Kartakass, Forlorn? And that's just the Core domains. Do you think the Islands & Clusters would be affected any (beyond Har'Akir, which you mentioned)?
Thank you!

I've already dealt with Lamordia in the post above.

Von Kharkov is planning to use Adeline to take control of Sithicus (in the mistaken belief that Azrael is the darklord), so when Sithicus collapses into anarchy, he'll move his troops in and pacify the place. Leaving Inza with fresh new toys to play with.

Someone else was talking about freeing von Kharkov by turning him back into a panther. I'm in two minds about that. You could use it if you wanted to. Or there's the long anticipated show down with the Cat of Felkovic.

Forlorn is too wrapped up in its own history to take much interest in what else is going on. We also know it still exists in some form in 400 years time, from the vision of the future in Castles Forlorn (although it might be in Ravenloft, in the Shadowfell, back on the Prime Material - we just need the castle to still be standing *somewhere*). The goblyns might take advantage of the war to do some border raids (the same with the Verbreker werewolves, I suppose), and Tristen might gain some ground against the druids. On Verbrek, Alfred Timothy is waiting for the day he can face down his father. I suspect he'd lose, the loss of face from which would tear Verbrek in half from those who lose faith in him and his god and those who remain loyal to him, so Verbrek might dissolve into tribe vs tribe conflict as well.

Kartakass is also peripheral (this time, because the Dark Powers will it so - Lukas' curse is that he has noting to rule and no real power to exercise).

Darkon I've deliberately left on the periphery, for two reasons. The first is just from a design point: Azalin has been hogging the major upheavals spotlight for so long that it's about time some of the others get a chance to shine. The second comes from something Rotipher once said: wouldn't it be great if Azalin was essentially just light entertainment for the Dark Powers, but not ultimately all that important (compared to say, Strahd, or even Drakov). His ego just couldn't take it.

As for all the Islands: I've already covered G'Henna, Odaire, Har'Akir, Paridon, and the Shadowlands (although you can add in Aurora waking up to confront Morgoroth, and Elena either dying or redeeming herself and then dying in the fight against Ebonbane). Often they're less developed, or less interwoven with Ravenloft's major plotlines, so it's hard to draw anything out. Of the ones that do:

Pharazia: Diamabel is going to be brought down by a blue eyed scoundrel. (Or was it black?) Anyway, Diamabel's downfall his been written in the stars since his first appearance.

Mictlan: Also had an end game written into it in terms of the death of Mouriros. (I just can't help pimping my own work)

The Frozen Wastes: Vorostokov gets colder, lonelier and hungrier. Have a look at the end of Dark of the Moon - there's quite a lot there to suggest how things might develop. Sanguinia's never had much of a chance to develop any plot lines, so there's not a lot I can say there. It's a blank slate; do what you think is best.

The Verdurous Lands: Saragoss isn't really capable of much change. Neither is the Wildlands. In Sri Raji, Arijani could either be killed or severely injured by Ravana's Bane. Web of Illusions might have some more ideas.
Ryan Naylor
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 1285
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:55 pm

Re: An Illustrated History of the Core

Post by Ryan Naylor »

Matthew L. Martin wrote: One possibility for connecting Krynn and Ravenloft that could make for an interesting twist: when I found out about the 'stealing of Krynn', one of my first thoughts was 'what if instead of bringing Soth back to Krynn, Takhisis brought Krynn to Soth? It'd be the perfect place to hide it from her fellow gods . . . '
Ha! I can't see how that could possibly go wrong... :)

If She’s LN (as the Home Faith says), this’ll probably be LN again (although very different in outlook to the Home Faith). If She’s TN (as the Dementlieuvian sect says), this’ll be NE.
What if she's LG, per the Mordentish sect? It could be NG--"the Hollow has corroded the Grand Scheme, and all is now lost in darkness. Save who and what you can." And if the Darkonese sect is right, you probably wind up with the NE version you described.
If She's LG, she can't have LE clerics (according to the one step rule, at least), so She has to be either LN or TN. Or breaking the rules, which is perfectly valid. I just didn't want to start any tangential arguments about clerics and their gods' alignment relationships. But I do like your NG sect. It'd make a good heresy if you didn't want to use it as the Final Sect.
One idea I played with--although John didn't seem to care for it--was that Azalin, frustrated with losing S as Irik's mother and suffering from his typical tunnel vision/blindness to consequences in the endgame, gave into his desire to spite Strahd and tapped Tara to replace her. That could throw a whole bunch of spanners into the works . . .
Another great idea. I can see why John wouldn't like it though. ;)

The Weathermay-Foxgrove twins have proved themselves to be intelligent and resourceful - why not kidnap one of them. Or both. As twins, you've got both an experimental control and a fallback position if the first doesn't work. In a black sort of way, Azalin would be showing the respect we know he has for Van Richten by choosing them.
Last edited by Ryan Naylor on Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ryan Naylor
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 1285
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:55 pm

Re: An Illustrated History of the Core

Post by Ryan Naylor »

One more thing:

The Vistani entered Ravenloft at the very beginning of 470 BC. They believe their power devolves from the Zarovan, and ultimately from Madame Eva (VRGttV). Madame Eva's only got a limited time to live before Jacqueline Montarri kills her in 495 BC.

Perhaps the ToUD is as far forwards at Madame Eva can reach in the time that she's got? Outside her reach, the Vistani lose their powers, since they're cut off from Eva, making the world a little bleaker for everyone (particularly them).

Possible dates: 770 BC (300 years after the Vistani enter); 773 BC (303 years, or 101 years for each of the Kaldresh, Boem and Manusa); or 775 BC (300 years after Madame Eva decides to rebel against the Dark Powers and meets Jander Sunstar; see Rotipher's ideas about Madame Eva for more details).
User avatar
Manofevil
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 1727
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 11:12 pm
Location: Why should I say? No one ever visits!

Re: An Illustrated History of the Core

Post by Manofevil »

I just noticed. War, Pestilence, Death, sprinkle in some Famine and you could include an incarnation of the Four Horseman of the Apocalypse. :twisted:
Do us a favor Luv, Stick yer 'ead in a bucket a kick it!

So, gentlemen, that's how it is. Until Grissome.... resurfaces, I'm the acting president, and I say starting with this... anniversary festival, we run this city into the ground! :D
Ryan Naylor
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 1285
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:55 pm

Re: An Illustrated History of the Core

Post by Ryan Naylor »

We've already had them rampaging around Darkon before Azalin returned. As part of Death Undaunted.
User avatar
Manofevil
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 1727
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 11:12 pm
Location: Why should I say? No one ever visits!

Re: An Illustrated History of the Core

Post by Manofevil »

Well, no saying they couldn't come back.
Do us a favor Luv, Stick yer 'ead in a bucket a kick it!

So, gentlemen, that's how it is. Until Grissome.... resurfaces, I'm the acting president, and I say starting with this... anniversary festival, we run this city into the ground! :D
User avatar
Mangrum
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 811
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:29 am

Re: An Illustrated History of the Core

Post by Mangrum »

Worst-case, end-game scenario in Staunton Bluffs would be to have some interloping adventurers figure out the ritual for laying Sir Torrence Bleysmith to rest--and then only getting as far as planting the flag of Staunton and laying claim to the lowlands before meeting a grim end. The countless ghosts of Staunton Bluffs get a lot less quaint once they realize they can touch you.
User avatar
The Lesser Evil
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 1552
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:17 am

Re: An Illustrated History of the Core

Post by The Lesser Evil »

Ryan Naylor wrote:
If She's LG, she can't have LE clerics (according to the one step rule, at least), so She has to be either LN or TN. Or breaking the rules, which is perfectly valid. I just didn't want to start any tangential arguments about clerics and their gods' alignment relationships. But I do like your NG sect. It'd make a good heresy if you didn't want to use it as the Final Sect.
Considering how even misplaced belief can turn into reality in Ravenloft (like the dread possibility of the Cult of the Overseer, or hell even the whole Zhakata thing), would it be possible for Ezra to be a sort of composite being, with a part of Her divinity keyed to the alignment of each of the four major sects (LN, N, LG, and LE)?

This could handle the one-step rule (I believe I've seen at least one NG cleric of Ezra in one of the Children of the Night adventures), and also give an impetus for the Final Sect- it is all about collecting these diverse fragments and bringing them together into one complete divinity.
User avatar
Jimsolo
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 468
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:34 pm

Re: An Illustrated History of the Core

Post by Jimsolo »

Don't forget the Heretic of the Faith feat from Power of Faerun. It represents you belonging to a divergent branch of the religion, and allows you to worship your deity and be TWO steps removed from them. Seems pretty reasonable that members of a new branch of the Church of Ezra might initially need to have this feat to be a cleric. Eventually, if the branch gets enough followers, Ezra could change alignments or even get enough support to be worshipped as one of two different alignments (allowing her clerics to be from a whole spectrum of faiths). Examples of this latter possibility from 3/3.5 include Kossuth and Mystra. I didn't think it was much of a leap to have a NG sect, but that's just me.
Ryan Naylor
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 1285
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:55 pm

Re: An Illustrated History of the Core

Post by Ryan Naylor »

Well, it's not really, except that Ezra's already refused to support one NG sect according to Anchors of Faith and the Gazzes.
User avatar
Zilfer
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 4231
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:14 pm
Gender: Male
Location: WA (Land of lots of trees)
Contact:

Re: An Illustrated History of the Core

Post by Zilfer »

Ryan Naylor wrote:Well, it's not really, except that Ezra's already refused to support one NG sect according to Anchors of Faith and the Gazzes.
Where's the reference?
There's always something to lose.

Fraternity of Shadows Discord
https://discord.gg/AM6Kp95ekf
Garudos Celestar
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 279
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:51 pm
Location: United States

Re: An Illustrated History of the Core

Post by Garudos Celestar »

Zilfer wrote:
Ryan Naylor wrote:Well, it's not really, except that Ezra's already refused to support one NG sect according to Anchors of Faith and the Gazzes.
Where's the reference?
"Anchors of Faith" in the Book of Secrets is the original reference (pg 23). Don't remember off the top of my head where it ended up in the gazetteers, but that sounds like a good excuse to re-read Gaz III and and Gaz IV...

...that said, there are heresies that have managed to pass the 2nd Rite of Revelation, although they typically never gain anyone who can manifest their unique shield other than their founder. The Heretic of the Faith feat sounds like a great option for such characters (although if I were the DM, I would insist that the heretic stays a heretic and never finds any adherent who is capable of duplicating his or her shield).
[i]"I too have begun to wonder about the legendary wisdom of our guardian angel and his pet rock."
~ Evee Beiderbecke[/i]
User avatar
Bluebomber4evr
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 450
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:08 pm
Location: United States of Whatever
Contact:

Re: An Illustrated History of the Core

Post by Bluebomber4evr »

Ryan Naylor wrote: The Verdurous Lands: Saragoss isn't really capable of much change. Neither is the Wildlands. In Sri Raji, Arijani could either be killed or severely injured by Ravana's Bane. Web of Illusions might have some more ideas.
There is the prophecy about King Crocodile dying either by humans or disease from the flies...
Bluebomber4evr: The Justice, not you, since 2002.
Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist Persistent World for Neverwinter Nights: www.nwnravenloft.com
Post Reply