Yep, 4th Edition is coming out....

[Lucius]

wow!

I really don´t know what to say...

[HuManBing]

In the past few months my spending on 3.5 books has increased steadily.

I have no intention of switching over to 4th anytime in the near future. Let's say arbitrarily that I intend to get two years' good use out of my current set of books before I even think about putting them down.

Plus I just started a new gaming group, mostly with people who last played 2nd ed. and who are just getting the hang of 3.5. I have no intention of subjecting them to another wrenching change in game mechanics just because it suits WotC's accountants.

[Guardian of Twilight]

In the past few months my spending on 3.5 books has increased steadily.

I have no intention of switching over to 4th anytime in the near future. Let's say arbitrarily that I intend to get two years' good use out of my current set of books before I even think about putting them down.

Plus I just started a new gaming group, mostly with people who last played 2nd ed. and who are just getting the hang of 3.5. I have no intention of subjecting them to another wrenching change in game mechanics just because it suits WotC's accountants.

Well put. I'm interested to see what 4E will look like, but will stick to 3.5 for a while yet. Heck, I'm even lining up a 2nd Edition campaign at present.

[Scipio]

I'm starting a 3.0 campaign here in a few days and so I won't be switching for a while. Heck i didn't even make the switch to 3.5.

[elliott20]

the only motivation I have right now for switching is not really for the new mechanics but for the fringes that come with it. apparently, they are also talking about marketing an online member subscription sort of deal that allows you play these games online via an engine they've developed using VOIP. Now THAT is awesome.

[Rucht Lilavivat]

For those who want some sort of official news:

http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/11123.html

August 16, 2007

Wizards of the Coast is announcing at GenCon today that it will release the 4th Edition of its category-leading Dungeons and Dragon roleplaying game in 2008, the first full new edition in eight years. The three core books will be released next summer on a monthly schedule: Player's Handbook in May, Monster Manual in June, and Dungeon Master's Guide in July. Pricing and page counts of the new products will be consistent with current packaging. Graphics have been updated, art will be used on the covers, and interior design has been opened up to make the books less intimidating to new players.

Lead-in products, Wizards Presents: Classes and Races and Wizards Presents: Worlds and Monsters, will be released in December. An April release, Keep of the Shadowfell, will include a set of quickstart rules for 4E.

While there are changes in play (such as incorporating "epic-level play," with 30 levels instead of 20), they are described as "evolutionary" rather than "revolutionary." Other changes include new power sources, changes in resource management, and new encounter design, and more clearly defined monster roles. Changes will speed play, make the game easier to learn, and make DM-ing easier. Concepts for 4th Edition gameplay were tested in the new Star Wars RPG, and the Book of 9 Swords.

What the company does describe as revolutionary is the method of product delivery, which will incorporate online play for the first time. WotC is incorporating online components into the game through a new Website, DnDInsider.com. Each paper product will include codes to unlock digital versions on the site for a "nominal" activation fee. Players will also be able to use DnDInsider tools and access regular new content similar to the material that was previously released in Dragon and Dungeon magazines (see "Interview with Liz Schuh") for a monthly fee (as yet undetermined) greater than the old subscription price, but less than a MMORPG subscription. Magazine-style content will be added to the site three times a week and compiled into digital "issues" monthly.

Gameplay features on the Web will include a digital D&D game table, and voice chat and text messaging, to allow online players to communicate with each other. The online play is designed to "supplement, not replace" meatspace play.

The Open Gaming License will continue as it has in the past, allowing the use of the rules in other publishers' games.

Work on the new edition began in 2005, with the major work all accomplished in the last year.

D&D products released between now and the launch of 4th Edition will fall into three groups. Edition-proof products (which are mostly story) will not include mechanics that are edition-specific. Some products will be "enhanced" to 4th Edition mechanics after release through DnDInsider, and a couple of series will end as 3.5 products.

The setting for the core books are campaign neutral. Forgotten Realms will be the first campaign setting to be updated (in August 2008). Other campaign settings will be updated at a rate of one per year.

Marketing support will initially focus on migrating the existing player base, and then move to an acquisition strategy to re-activate lapsed players and acquire new ones. Midnight launch parties will be used to kick off sales of the first new release in May.

[Rucht Lilavivat]

The current buzz about upcoming 4th Edition is that it will feature a lot of streamlining. It will designed to be quicker to pick up and faster to play. That "theme" in a lot of the sneak peaks seems to come up a lot. This I would seriously count on in the upcoming edition.

Now here's my speculation and guesses:

My bet is that 4th Edition will be significantly different from 3rd Edition. If I had to guess at just one change, I would bank on is the ability to choose different class abilities each level, instead of being locked into a specific ability each time you advance. But this is just my speculation.

Many people have been commenting about the sneak-peak art pieces they have released. You'll notice there are none of the exotic spikes or funky weaponry that has come to be associated with 3rd Edition. I wouldn't be surprised if we get alot more "1st edition feel" with 4th Edition.

[Jester of the FoS]

No spiked chains? Oh thank CHRIST!

[Bluebomber4evr]

The current buzz about upcoming 4th Edition is that it will feature a lot of streamlining. It will designed to be quicker to pick up and faster to play. That "theme" in a lot of the sneak peaks seems to come up a lot. This I would seriously count on in the upcoming edition.

Now here's my speculation and guesses:

My bet is that 4th Edition will be significantly different from 3rd Edition. If I had to guess at just one change, I would bank on is the ability to choose different class abilities each level, instead of being locked into a specific ability each time you advance. But this is just my speculation.

heh, and Gygax thought he hated third edition for destroying classes

Many people have been commenting about the sneak-peak art pieces they have released. You'll notice there are none of the exotic spikes or funky weaponry that has come to be associated with 3rd Edition. I wouldn't be surprised if we get alot more "1st edition feel" with 4th Edition.

another from me....they tried to pull that with 3.0 when it came out. It didn't fly then, probably won't this time either.

I'd love to say I'm surprised or something, but really I saw this coming miles away. Every new edition of D&D seems to be done becuase the rules have become spread out between too many sourcebooks, so they condense it. Towards the end of 1st ed. there were something like 18 rulebooks, so they condensed that stuff into the 2nd ed. rulebooks. By the end of 2nd. ed. there were probably about 60 or so. Cue 3rd edition. Now there's what? A hundred? It won't stop at a 4th edition either. There'll be a 5th...and a 6th, and so on.

This whole "online table-top" thing seems too weird to work. Why would someone pay a "nominal fee" to do something they can do in an IRC chatroom for free?

[Rucht Lilavivat]

Here's an interview that details more about 4th Edition. This one makes a pretty big claim...4th Edition will be so different from 3rd Edition that you probably won't be able to make an easy conversion.

http://www.wizarduniverse.com/magazine/ ... 672645.cfm

THE FOURTH AMENDMENT
Roleplaying granddaddy ‘Dungeons & Dragons’ is leveling up, redefining online gaming and bringing huge changes to ‘D&D Minis’

By Thorin McGee
Posted August 16, 2007 2:30 PM

If you thought the advent of d20 was a giant leap for gamer kind, they’re looking to jump Springfield Gorge with this one. 2007 marked Wizards of the Coast’s summer of big ideas: Magic’s getting planeswalkers and two blocks a year, Gleemax.com is spearheading the company’s conquest of the Internet, and at Gen Con, Wizards announced the Fourth Edition of Dungeons & Dragons.

THE BOOKS
“We think Third Edition is a wonderful platform and we’re building upon that,” said Bill Slavicsek, Wizards of the Coast director of RPG research and development and the man at the wheel for Dungeons & Dragons, d20 and all of Wizards’ roleplaying initiatives. “But we have learned a lot about what’s worked and not worked over the last eight years, and we’re certainly looking to get rid of the slow and bumpy parts and just get to the fun” in Fourth Edition.

This new edition will stick with the d20 system, but the designers see many elements that can be improved. One big emphasis has been on streamlining turns to help the game get around the table a bit quicker; they know there’s nothing the rules can do to keep a party’s mage and barbarian from wasting 15 minutes screaming over tactics at the start of every combat, but at least they can get you out of grappling details a bit faster. And the mage and barbarian might get along a little better thanks to revamped spell recovery rules that won’t do away with the need to rest to replenish spells, but will give players more options to recover spells and in-game incentives to do something other than call nappy-time every two encounters.

In essence, what you’re going to see mechanically is the d20 system evolved: rebuilding the clunky parts, greasing the wheels and polishing the chrome until you can see your character in it. Part of that polishing includes ramping up the coolness factor on some of the less-popular character classes to make sure that every class has a unique and essential role in a well-balanced party; you might see some of the traditional classes fall out of the base book in favor of sexier roles. The same thing will happen to the races covered in the core books, where the half-demon tieflings will claim a place at the expense of an undisclosed race—we’re guessing a half-elf, gnome and halfling were shut up in a dark cave with some paring knives, and no questions were asked of whoever came out…heck, there might even be three new races in the new edition! Not to worry; Slavicsek promises that any beloved races cut from the core books will appear in early Fourth Edition expansions.

Not all of Fourth Edition’s changes will add to the game by subtraction; many rules tweaks they’ve experimented with in books all over Wizards’ RPGs will show up as well. For example, Slavicsek tells us that “The Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords book, which gave fighter-type characters the same types of options spellcasters do by basically giving them spells for fighters,” was received very well. “That idea has been extremely popular, and we’re adopting something similar for Fourth Edition.”

As always, the Player’s Handbook, Monster Manual and Dungeon Master’s Guide will be the core of the new edition, and you’ll see them in May, June and July of 2008 respectively, just in time for everyone to get new campaigns up and running for next year’s Gen Con. And yes, Wizards does recommend you begin new campaigns with Fourth Edition. “It’s not going to be as huge a jump,” as from Second Edition to Third Edition, said Slavicsek, “but there’s enough changing in the core system of how we are doing classes and races and characters that we’re not even gonna attempt it—we’re just telling you it’s better to start over.” Conversion went over like a lead balloon with Third Edition anyway.

THE PLASTIC PERIPHERALS
So Fourth Edition will be a new rule set based on d20, but not remotely compatible. What’s that mean for the minis game? Effectively, this is D&D Minis 2.0 as well. Starting with Dungeons of Dread in April of 2008, D&D Minis sets will use Fourth Edition rules. According to Slavicsek, “All your plastic will still be usable, but your stat cards will need to be updated.” However, you’ll be able to get updated stat cards for free on Wizards’ website for Unhallowed and the sets printed since. In addition, there will be a sort of all-star set of updated cards available for download that will include updated stats for the figs getting the most tournament play. And of course, there’s always room for re-releasing popular figs in post-Fourth expansions of the future.

THE NEW ONLINE WORLD
But updated stat cards aren’t the only piece of Fourth’s puzzle being played online. Today, millions of people go online to pretend they’re elves and orcs and goblins on epic quests in various MMOs, sometimes even in the D&D universe with D&D Online. But we can’t help but feel that all those MMOs have just been honing in on D&D’s territory. After all, how many World of Warcraft and EverQuest players started because their D&D group broke up? Wizards aims to find out through an online initiative called D&D Insider.

“If you think of your favorite movie double-DVD set, the movie is the books, and all the specials, that’s D&D Insider,” said Slavicsek about the subscription-based web initiative that will let any D&D player expand their experience on the official website. “It’ll start with your electronic version of Dungeon magazine and Dragon magazine,” which Slavicsek is particularly familiar with because he used to be the editor of Dragon. However, because they’re moving the production in-house, all of the content will be official D&D canon, most of it developed by the actual designers. In addition, there will be a suite of DM tools—experience calculators, a dungeon tile mapper, etc.—to help the most overworked players in gaming get their campaigns running in record time, and private pages for the DM to post information on the world for his group to access. On the PC side, an official character generator will let players design the character they want to play, save it and print it out at any organized play event, which will make organizing such events a lot easier and may—hopefully—spur a resurgence of organized RPG play. Players will also be able to create an exact representation of their character’s look through the character generator much like you might in an MMO, and then use a custom-tailored “virtual mini” of that character on D&D Insider’s most exciting offering, the virtual game table.

“The D&D game table is basically the place where you can play D&D 24/7. It’s the kitchen table on the internet,” explained Slavicsek. “It lets you do everything you can do on the kitchen table—roll the dice, lay out your battle map, lay out your dry erase marker map, lay out your dungeon tiles, lay out your virtual miniatures,” and it will let players use voice chat through the company Vivox to communicate directly through the game table just like if they were all in the same room.

“What we really like about this is that with a lot of groups, after college the group breaks up, never to see each other again. Well now you can call each other and log into D&D Insider and play on the D&D game table. And suddenly your groups that have been gone for 10 years can get back together and play with each other.” According to Slavicsek, all of this will be free to D&D Insider subscribers, but also available to nonsubscribers for a nominal fee.

Will that be enough to draw D&D nation out of their Third Edition d20 campaigns and into 4.0? Will it be cool enough to convince some of the MMO-playing mob to try a completely different online experience? Sounds to us like it might. After all, anything that helps college gaming groups reconnect in the real world can’t be all bad.

[Rucht Lilavivat]

I'd love to say I'm surprised or something, but really I saw this coming miles away. Every new edition of D&D seems to be done becuase the rules have become spread out between too many sourcebooks, so they condense it. Towards the end of 1st ed. there were something like 18 rulebooks, so they condensed that stuff into the 2nd ed. rulebooks. By the end of 2nd. ed. there were probably about 60 or so. Cue 3rd edition. Now there's what? A hundred? It won't stop at a 4th edition either. There'll be a 5th...and a 6th, and so on.

Well, of course. Roleplaying games as a business model rely on the production of new material. They cannot exist off of the sales of their core books. Basically, when you create a roleplaying game, you create a product which will sell a certain amount, and then taper off significantly.

The only way any roleplaying game company can stay afloat is to produce new material. The problem is that all roleplaying games reach a saturation point. After you've produced your Player's Guide, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Guide, you're done. None of your customers have to buy anything else. And even when you release guides on the different classes or guides on setting...what happens when you run out of room? For example...when you start releasing Monster Manual 5...aren't you reaching a bit?

So to even survive as a RPG company, to even be able to to put food on your table, you have to make a choice: 1) Close your production line and start something new, or 2) Come out with a new edition.

For example, Shane Lacy Hensley survived by following choice #1. WotC is obviously going for choice #2.

However, the key to being a successful RPG company is introducing your new edition at precisely the right time, for precisely the right reasons, with precisely what your audience needs. Meaning, your audience has to need a new edition.

Now, are these three elements in place for 4th Edition? Some would say yes, some would say no. That's definately open for debate.

[Guardian of Twilight]

Many people have been commenting about the sneak-peak art pieces they have released. You'll notice there are none of the exotic spikes or funky weaponry that has come to be associated with 3rd Edition. I wouldn't be surprised if we get alot more "1st edition feel" with 4th Edition.

Is there a link that could be posted showing the new artwork? I haven't seen any of it as of yet...

[Nathan of the FoS]

I wonder if there will be any chance of convincing my dad to drop 1e for 4e...



Yeah, not gonna happen.

Well, heck. Fraternity of Shadows for 4e Ravenloft! Write your congressman--er...wizard of the coast to demand it!

[Sylaire]

Possibly this has something to do with the fact that I still see negative-number armor classes as a good thing (i.e., I never played 3E ), but did anyone else see the mention of "online" as equivalent to "patches." More and more, for example, videogames today advertise "Woo! Downloadable content!" which is advertising slang for "You have to pay us extra to download extra stuff so you get the whole product!"

Now, to be fair, that's inevitable in an RPG product line anyway. As Bluebomber & Rucht pointed out, you have to add to the line with new books on a regular basis to keep the profit stream coming. But in my experience, "online" and "downloadable" don't mean "access to new and exciting things" but rather "pay extra for what should have been in the original product in the first place."

[Rucht Lilavivat]

Is there a link that could be posted showing the new artwork? I haven't seen any of it as of yet...

A click on either of the links will show the artwork. Ah, but here's a short cut.

http://www.wizarduniverse.com/magazine/ ... fm?popup=1