Ravenloft is back in 5e?

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Re: Ravenloft is back in 5e?

Post by Leliel »

onmyoji wrote: My guess is they didn't have enough actual material for a Ravenloft guide by their deadline (despite all the extant lore), so that consent/comfort writeup got expanded to "lengthy" to help cover some of the word count. Just a guess, of course, but I can't pretend I don't perceive a clear dwindling quality of content for 5E in recent times.

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And I can't pretend I really do not see it. It's subjective by definition, but Tasha's Guide to Everything is what set me on converting Pathfinder 2E APs to 5E.

And... really? A guide to content warnings is proof of getting more PG-13?

I'll be honest: It sounds like complaining that movie theaters have an MPAA rating under the poster.

Seriously. That's how fretting about the existence of trigger warnings sounds to me. Really, the trigger warnings only make me more interested, because that means there are things to be warned about. That's a selling point to my morbid mind.
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Re: Ravenloft is back in 5e?

Post by onmyoji »

I can see that viewpoint too. I hope the warnings for this book do mean something, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Though to be clear, I'm all for the warnings and such. I'm not saying they shouldn't have them. It's more that if WotC thinks they're super crucial, they should probably be putting them in the book that's essential to run the game instead of something they can't guarantee everyone will obtain, even if that latter content has the potential to push past PG-13 more than their usual. After all, who knows how many DMs out there are running their own homebrews that involve objectionable content?

I'm just saying if WotC doesn't want to be disingenuous about it, these warnings shouldn't be *just* in an optional guide to a specific setting—they should be made widely available. We won't know for certain, but it's at least possible this might all boil down to being a big disclaimer on their part. A sort of "Run/play Ravenloft at your own risk" type thing.

I hope that's not the case. I hope it's legitimate concern for their players. But I guess we'll see how widely they spread that "lengthy" writeup after the VR guide has been released.

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Re: Ravenloft is back in 5e?

Post by Mephisto of the FoS »

Leliel wrote:Also, reading that press release... holy **** this is the apogee of what Falkovnia was supposed to be.

Think about it. What's the running theme of zombie apocalypses, that has nothing to do with the zombies? That's right, how savage the living will become when pressed, and how "restoring order" is often code for "using the crisis to grab power." A zombie apocalypse is also a military horror; boxed in on all sides by a relentless, overwhelming force, with commanders who don't care a whit and a supply line running low.

Quite simply, Vlad Drakov has a setting where he seems like the option of survival. He can be ported as is even without the buff into the Immortal Vampire Kaiser-General, and he would make sense. If he can protect anyone at all from the horde, he'll get followers. Often, very sympathetic followers. I, for example, look forward to Jaeger-Fuher HUNK..
The only reason for a zombie apocalypse in Falkovnia I see is an inspiration from nazi zombie creation experiments (gone wrong)?...

Død snø (2009)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrAHR1ykM6c

Overlord (2018)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USPd0vX2sdc

or Castle Wolfenstein video games.

Zombie apocalypses as a movie theme began as a metaphor for commercialism, thats why there is a recurring scenes of zombie infested malls.

Falkfuhrer Doktor Vjorn Horstman tried to make a super soldier and hell broke loose...
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Re: Ravenloft is back in 5e?

Post by SkiBird »

Leliel wrote:... this is the apogee of what Falkovnia was supposed to be.
I can get on board with that. Maybe after one too many of the Dead Man's Campaigns, the domain hit some sort of tipping point and it became a self-sustaining system? Instead of an invading force that got repelled, some sort of enduring curse may have caused perpetual zombie plagues that swept through the land?

And I agree. Trope wise, vampire movies are about vampires, werewolf movies are about werewolves. Zombie movies, as a genre, are very rarely about zombies. Zombie movies are about the end of life-as-we-know-it. They are about the fall of civilization and what comes after. Zombies exist by the score in that sort of fiction, sure, but they aren't the story. They're the thing that gives the story a reason for coming into being. The genre usually explores what lengths regular people would go to in order to survive. About what depths others might sink to when the realization sets in that there are no more rules. The zombies themselves are just the backdrop that sets the scene for the horrible stuff that can develop between the other characters.

The story of a trés-horrible warlord, doing what they must in an unforgiving land, and the people that would make a stand against those atrocities. People doing whatever they can to recover / maintain their humanity. There's gold to be mined in them there hills.
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Re: Ravenloft is back in 5e?

Post by Five »

SkiBird wrote:
Leliel wrote:... this is the apogee of what Falkovnia was supposed to be.
I can get on board with that. Maybe after one too many of the Dead Man's Campaigns, the domain hit some sort of tipping point and it became a self-sustaining system? Instead of an invading force that got repelled, some sort of enduring curse may have caused perpetual zombie plagues that swept through the land?

And I agree. Trope wise, vampire movies are about vampires, werewolf movies are about werewolves. Zombie movies, as a genre, are very rarely about zombies. Zombie movies are about the end of life-as-we-know-it. They are about the fall of civilization and what comes after. Zombies exist by the score in that sort of fiction, sure, but they aren't the story. They're the thing that gives the story a reason for coming into being. The genre usually explores what lengths regular people would go to in order to survive. About what depths others might sink to when the realization sets in that there are no more rules. The zombies themselves are just the backdrop that sets the scene for the horrible stuff that can develop between the other characters.

The story of a trés-horrible warlord, doing what they must in an unforgiving land, and the people that would make a stand against those atrocities. People doing whatever they can to recover / maintain their humanity. There's gold to be mined in them there hills.
It's a shiny new float rope with a giant neon light that reads "Pull if you like Walking Dead". And I don't have a problem with that because as I've mentioned earlier it can actually tie in to existing Falkovnia backstory: Azalin (the most likely culprit) has tired of Drakov's antics and decided to go on the offensive. And just like the Dead Man's Campaigns' unintentional side effect of actually honing the (surviving) Falkovnian soldiers into elite warriors and veterans of horror (outside of the homegrown) so too can this undead invasion unintentionally empower Drakov, his/her soldiers, and Falkovnia. Once word gets out about their struggle for survival (humans versus supernatural/undead), no doubt a certain amount of sympathy from the Core will come into play. Even from those domains that currently despise Drakov and all that he/she stands for. Certain rulers, especially those not aware of the terms of their supernatural prison, will no doubt feel the heat rise with public opinion and feel compelled to give a little for a political lot (remember, Falkovnia is the breadbasket of the Core). It can actually work to elevate Falkovnia's game potential, and push the Ravenloft timeline forward.

All that assumes that VRGtR keeps the Core intact, and not bring it back to a new-old version of the Black Box. Worstcase, I do it myself. Win win.
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Re: Ravenloft is back in 5e?

Post by Mistmaster »

Personally, I like Falkovnia as a third Reich/Wilhelmine Germany expy, and feel no need for a zombie invasion.
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Re: Ravenloft is back in 5e?

Post by Mephisto of the FoS »

Five wrote:
It's a shiny new float rope with a giant neon light that reads "Pull if you like Walking Dead". And I don't have a problem with that because as I've mentioned earlier it can actually tie in to existing Falkovnia backstory: Azalin (the most likely culprit) has tired of Drakov's antics and decided to go on the offensive. And just like the Dead Man's Campaigns' unintentional side effect of actually honing the (surviving) Falkovnian soldiers into elite warriors and veterans of horror (outside of the homegrown) so too can this undead invasion unintentionally empower Drakov, his/her soldiers, and Falkovnia. Once word gets out about their struggle for survival (humans versus supernatural/undead), no doubt a certain amount of sympathy from the Core will come into play. Even from those domains that currently despise Drakov and all that he/she stands for. Certain rulers, especially those not aware of the terms of their supernatural prison, will no doubt feel the heat rise with public opinion and feel compelled to give a little for a political lot (remember, Falkovnia is the breadbasket of the Core). It can actually work to elevate Falkovnia's game potential, and push the Ravenloft timeline forward.
This sounds like Game of Thrones...
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Re: Ravenloft is back in 5e?

Post by Strahdsbuddy »

As a long time player, and one who had major problems with Curse of Strahd, I fear this new edition will do more to divide us than unite us in the setting. A schism of old guard and new players, which will be very troublesome for a site like this when the fan made stuff has the extra level of “what version is this?” I can glean good info from any book, Ravenloft or not. For me the pinnacle of the setting was under Arthaus. If they divide up the Core into islands it makes it difficult to continue that feel of all being related. Breath is being held for sure.
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Re: Ravenloft is back in 5e?

Post by Five »

Mephisto wrote:
Five wrote:
It's a shiny new float rope with a giant neon light that reads "Pull if you like Walking Dead". And I don't have a problem with that because as I've mentioned earlier it can actually tie in to existing Falkovnia backstory: Azalin (the most likely culprit) has tired of Drakov's antics and decided to go on the offensive. And just like the Dead Man's Campaigns' unintentional side effect of actually honing the (surviving) Falkovnian soldiers into elite warriors and veterans of horror (outside of the homegrown) so too can this undead invasion unintentionally empower Drakov, his/her soldiers, and Falkovnia. Once word gets out about their struggle for survival (humans versus supernatural/undead), no doubt a certain amount of sympathy from the Core will come into play. Even from those domains that currently despise Drakov and all that he/she stands for. Certain rulers, especially those not aware of the terms of their supernatural prison, will no doubt feel the heat rise with public opinion and feel compelled to give a little for a political lot (remember, Falkovnia is the breadbasket of the Core). It can actually work to elevate Falkovnia's game potential, and push the Ravenloft timeline forward.
This sounds like Game of Thrones...
If you want to connect those dots, then by all means have at it. Whatever gets your creative juices flowing. I don't see it as such. I don't envision a Core event, just a domain under siege with limited, token, support from a few realms that are naturally concerned about their own well-being (food for "normalcy"). The undead are somehow bound to stay within Falkovnian borders, so once this fact is known the support will stay limited to supply chains, leaving the Falkovnian struggle for survival to the DM to customise.

Or they can ignore the change. Or rename and use 5E Falkovnia as another domain (fill in that hole that is the Shadow Rift!)...
Last edited by Five on Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ravenloft is back in 5e?

Post by Drinnik Shoehorn »

Strahdsbuddy wrote:As a long time player, and one who had major problems with Curse of Strahd, I fear this new edition will do more to divide us than unite us in the setting. A schism of old guard and new players, which will be very troublesome for a site like this when the fan made stuff has the extra level of “what version is this?” I can glean good info from any book, Ravenloft or not. For me the pinnacle of the setting was under Arthaus. If they divide up the Core into islands it makes it difficult to continue that feel of all being related. Breath is being held for sure.
Think about it, with 5e, all of the previous editions worth of books for the Realms are still valid, and can still be used for lore purposes.

The drastic changes they've mentioned for Ravenloft mean that a good 80-90% of the books from previous editions for lore are now not compatible with this book.
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Re: Ravenloft is back in 5e?

Post by Five »

Strahdsbuddy wrote:As a long time player, and one who had major problems with Curse of Strahd, I fear this new edition will do more to divide us than unite us in the setting. A schism of old guard and new players, which will be very troublesome for a site like this when the fan made stuff has the extra level of “what version is this?” I can glean good info from any book, Ravenloft or not. For me the pinnacle of the setting was under Arthaus. If they divide up the Core into islands it makes it difficult to continue that feel of all being related. Breath is being held for sure.
Hm. Could it be that Wizards want to clean their hands of stuff (regardless of quality and fan support) that was concocted outside of their labs? "Not ours, never happened."?

Either way, the hypothetical only impacts my game if I allow it. So it's pretty much a non-factor as far as I'm concerned. An idea is an idea, and a sharing of ideas is a sharing of ideas. We're roleplayers, it's not hard to think outside of our preferred edition if it means helping jump-start another poster's imagination... :)
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Re: Ravenloft is back in 5e?

Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

Five wrote:
SkiBird wrote:
Leliel wrote:... this is the apogee of what Falkovnia was supposed to be.
I can get on board with that. Maybe after one too many of the Dead Man's Campaigns, the domain hit some sort of tipping point and it became a self-sustaining system? Instead of an invading force that got repelled, some sort of enduring curse may have caused perpetual zombie plagues that swept through the land?

And I agree. Trope wise, vampire movies are about vampires, werewolf movies are about werewolves. Zombie movies, as a genre, are very rarely about zombies. Zombie movies are about the end of life-as-we-know-it. They are about the fall of civilization and what comes after. Zombies exist by the score in that sort of fiction, sure, but they aren't the story. They're the thing that gives the story a reason for coming into being. The genre usually explores what lengths regular people would go to in order to survive. About what depths others might sink to when the realization sets in that there are no more rules. The zombies themselves are just the backdrop that sets the scene for the horrible stuff that can develop between the other characters.

The story of a trés-horrible warlord, doing what they must in an unforgiving land, and the people that would make a stand against those atrocities. People doing whatever they can to recover / maintain their humanity. There's gold to be mined in them there hills.
It's a shiny new float rope with a giant neon light that reads "Pull if you like Walking Dead". And I don't have a problem with that because as I've mentioned earlier it can actually tie in to existing Falkovnia backstory: Azalin (the most likely culprit) has tired of Drakov's antics and decided to go on the offensive. And just like the Dead Man's Campaigns' unintentional side effect of actually honing the (surviving) Falkovnian soldiers into elite warriors and veterans of horror (outside of the homegrown) so too can this undead invasion unintentionally empower Drakov, his/her soldiers, and Falkovnia. Once word gets out about their struggle for survival (humans versus supernatural/undead), no doubt a certain amount of sympathy from the Core will come into play. Even from those domains that currently despise Drakov and all that he/she stands for. Certain rulers, especially those not aware of the terms of their supernatural prison, will no doubt feel the heat rise with public opinion and feel compelled to give a little for a political lot (remember, Falkovnia is the breadbasket of the Core). It can actually work to elevate Falkovnia's game potential, and push the Ravenloft timeline forward.

All that assumes that VRGtR keeps the Core intact, and not bring it back to a new-old version of the Black Box. Worstcase, I do it myself. Win win.
As mentioned, I'm a huge fan of existing Falkovnia. And I've never really gotten into the zombie genre, and still I can agree with pretty much all of this. If anywhere in the Core makes sense as the place for a zombie apocalypse, Falkovnia does. It can easily be a natural development of the Dead Man's Campaigns, and Vjorn Horstman's experiments. It ties into classic horror tropes like "the soldier went away to war... and brought something back." It fits Vlad's curse that after all his attempts to invade his neighbors, he's the one who gets invaded. After all his attempts at order, his domain falls into chaos. And his daughter (? granddaughter?) has to pick up the pieces. It all fits. Whether the book connects these dots or we do, this sort of timeline advancement is what I'm hoping to get from it.
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Re: Ravenloft is back in 5e?

Post by Joël of the FoS »

May be it has a link with my supersoldier article anf Vjorn's experiments? :D (Antunia Papiecù, from QtR18) ?

That's the first thing I thought when I read zombie apocalypse in Falkovnia. "oh oh, something went wrong"

Seriously, I'm curious to see how they explain it (even if in classic zombie movies, we never know how it started!)
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Re: Ravenloft is back in 5e?

Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

Joël of the FoS wrote:May be it has a link with my supersoldier article anf Vjorn's experiments? :D (Antunia Papiecù, from QtR18) ?
I thought the same! Was going to mention it in my post, but I must have forgotten. Anyway, you're a prophet, Joel! ;)
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Re: Ravenloft is back in 5e?

Post by Le Noir Faineant »

Oh, by Hextor, I make my yearly visit to the Frat, and it's --- right into the drama.

Me, I'm super-happy that RL is making a comeback. For me personally, this means that I can be optimistic about me keeping an understanding of what D&D is all about beyond my own gaming table, in the years to come. :lucas: And beautiful reprints, and the like, which I hope will accompany the new edition, never a bad idea.

The PC-related changes are likely a move to keep the setting "insurable", and presentable for convention play, which is at the core of these things: Evading bad press, and evading possible lawsuits. And, however silly that might be, that's okay in my book. There are several generations of people in the RPG hobby now, from grandpas to teenagers: That's "Christopher Lee is Dracula" sitting with "Gary Oldman is Dracula", potentially sitting with "Hotel Transylvania". To make something like that work, in practice, you need a lot of restraint as a DM. Offering help from the company's side with that might seem a tad bit patronizing, but is not a bad thing per se. That's a gaming company doing its job, really - teaching people new to the hobby how they are recommended to deal with certain meta-situations that might come up at any gaming table. No shame in that.

As to the actual in-game content, I think, yeah, they're royally messing up Falkovnia. As to the rest, well, there is some general wisdom in creating a setting that is probably more dependent on recent TV-show scenarios ("Shadow and Bone", "Kingdom", "The Walking Dead") than on the movies and books that inspired classic Ravenloft. Now, to create 30-something domains/scenarios for players is certainly a remarkable move: DMsGuild is going to run hot, I assume. Now, will I DM this new Ravenloft? - Naaah. My Vlad Drakov is a dude, and from Thenol. But would I play it? - Sure. The stage is there to tell some cool stories, about that I'm sure.

Likewise, I'm pretty sure 5e Ravenloft will do what 2e Ravenloft did: Start relatively tame, and then, over the years, if there will be any life to it, evolve into a beast of its own. The game itself is an introduction to the horror genre as a whole, that's why its pull has always been so strong. In actual practice, it's hard to imagine that the same generation that made hits out of "American Horror Story", "The Haunting of Bly Manor", and "Penny Dreadful" (or, concerning books, of "Those Across the River", "The Troop", or of "The Ritual") will be accepting of some vanilla, Scooby-Do-ish cringefest. To those who simply want to emulate ideas from their favorite novel or TV show for their Sunday evening game, it won't matter what sensibilities Wizbro tells them to respect. And that's fine, too, and not necessarily in opposition to WotC policing official content more strongly than they used to do. ...Always within measure and reason, of course.
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