Trial for Heresy as the main part of an Adventure?

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Trial for Heresy as the main part of an Adventure?

Post by WolfKook »

Hi, everyone.

I'm currently writing an adventure which revolves around Rhiannon Elysia, a character from one of the BoS, who is victim to an odem which makes her believe she is Ezra incarnated. In the adventure, the players will meet her as she and her brother make their pilgrimage to the Great Cathedral in Levkarest. Off course, the main part of the adventure would be after she arrives there and is accused of heresy, and that is precisely the part I have troubles with.

The thing is, I want the trial to be an important part of the adventure, but that would mean that for the most part of it there would be no combat or dangerous situations. How can I keep the player's interest in such a situation? How can I keep the atmosphere of horror? I've thought of people from the different Schisms of the church (And even Ivana Boritsi) to be trying to pull the strings in favor of the pardon or the hanging of the girl, but I don't know how to handle this part of the adventure.

How would you manage that?

Off course, i won't tell the end just yet... It's a surprise :wink: .
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Post by NeoTiamat »

Depends on the players, but perhaps have them appointed the girl's defenders?

Social characters get to roleplay being a lawyer, sneaky ones might try to gather evidence, while fighter types might have to defend from an attack by a party who isn't thrilled with the current situation and manages to circumvent justice.

It might also be a good idea to split the party up, and perhaps stagger the sessions with the actual players. (I.e. have A arrive first for the evidence finding, then just before he leaves B shows up for the actual lawyering and learns the evidence from A).

That's what comes to my mind at first.
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Post by Ail »

I think I recall two films where a notable part (I mean, one people tend to recall) is an inquisitorial trial. Not to mention Ivanhoe, which is a bit poor in it, I think, I was thinking of 'The Name of the Rose' (obviously) and a Spanish-Portuguese film that probably no one here knows... except Rafael, perhaps. It was 'El-Rey Pasmado'.

These two movies might serve as inspiration as to how to make such a trial interesting.

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Zumba d'Oxossi (A Stitch in Souragne)
Brother Eustace (The Devil's Dreams)
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Post by DeepShadow of FoS »

At the risk of repeating nearly everything from the Godefoy thread, I think trials have many exciting elements. Perhaps you can start by answering the following questions:

1) What's at risk? Even if all people are doing is talking, if they are talking about whether someone should live or die, it can be pretty exciting. Watch 12 Angry Men.

2) How fair are the people involved? The classic setup is to have a fair judge but a corrupt prosecutor. A variation would be to have everyone corrupt, but they need to maintain appearances. The Alvin Maker series by Orson Scott Card has some witchcraft trials like this. A final option is to have fair or at least reasonable participants in court, but an angry mob outside, like in Grisham's A Time to Kill.

3) What's the evidence? If there's evidence that needs to be brought from other places, the timeframe becomes an issue. If there's evidence that implicates someone else, that person's interests become enmeshed in the trial. If there's evidence that need to be interpreted, the PC's may have to sway the judge/jury as to what it really means.

4) What's the legal system? Is it guilty until proven innocent, or vice versa? Burden of proof makes a big difference, as does the authority of the court. A church court might not have the authority to enact the sentence they want, so they might make a deal with the secular authorities or trump up the charges to get the secular ones involved.

5) Who does the court recognize as having the authority to speak? If a PC is going to be an advocate addressing the judge, what skills are involved? Diplomacy is an obvious choice, but it can be modified by inexperience in the protocols and modes of address: calling a military judge "your honor" instead of "sir" is a breach of protocol. Rather than make up and enforce a whole lot of rules, I'd make up some general rules and fill in the rest with an appropriate Knowledge skill check--Local or History for most situations, possibly Religion or Nobility depending upon the court authority. Make the check once per four hours or so to assign a modifier to the character's Diplomacy checks to sway the court that day.
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Post by Nathan of the FoS »

DeepShadow wrote:2) How fair are the people involved? The classic setup is to have a fair judge but a corrupt prosecutor. A variation would be to have everyone corrupt, but they need to maintain appearances. The Alvin Maker series by Orson Scott Card has some witchcraft trials like this. A final option is to have fair or at least reasonable participants in court, but an angry mob outside, like in Grisham's A Time to Kill.
Or one could have a corrupt judge and an honest prosecutor...that's always exciting. Gene Wolfe's Return to the Whorl has a good example of that.
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Post by HuManBing »

This is an excellent example of how to make a non-combat-heavy campaign into an interesting one. The PCs could be investigators, bodyguards, legal defense, etc. trying to clear her name.

Assuming a fair trial, PCs could be aiding a lawyer in clearing her name. (Being the lawyer themselves is possible too but you'd need to do a bit of research to make sure the setting "fits" with what a lawyer would do.)

Issues that the lawyer would need help with:

- The issue is proving the girl's innocence. How are they going to do this? If it is similar to the American system of adversarial representation, then the lawyer will likely look at the procedural ways to throw out the case before it even gets to trial.

- Insufficiency of complaint or summary judgment. The first basically says that procedurally, the plaintiff has failed to state a claim for which relief can be granted. Here, it could be that the PCs simply look at the papers filed by the opposing side and compare it with the legal requirements. If the papers fail to show that the opposing side has suffered an injury by this woman, and that the law court can give them redress, then the case dies.

Summary judgment is slightly less pedantic but still based on the overarching law rather than the facts of the case. This is where the Defendant says something akin to "Even if everything you say is absolutely true, this court should throw out the case because it can't give relief for these people against this person for these supposed crimes." Who are the Plaintiffs? The PCs might be able to identify some members of the Plaintiff group who have no business being in this case because the girl's activities don't affect them at all. Pointing this out would require the Plaintiffs to drop those parties.

These are highly legalistic issues at the start of the case and not likely ones that the PCs themselves can do. So we move onto the real soap-opera type struggles that the common man can understand and help out with.

Generally speaking though usually a case will have to specify very clear and specific charges. Remember Saddam Hussein - even though history accredits him with very sweeping crimes and brutality, the case against him ultimately devolved to focus only on one specific instance of alleged massacre.

Here, the girl probably won't just be generally charged with "Being a heretic". She'll probably be charged with specific counts, e.g. "1) Speaking heretical thoughts in a place of worship on January 23, 376. 2) Holding an assembly of religious nature barred by law evenings of January 28, February 4, February 12, and February 25, 376. etc. et al"

This makes it easier for the PCs and defense team to know what it is they have to disprove in order to clear her name of the charges against her.

What are the elements of heresy? Obviously, U.S. law doesn't have a record on this, but consider these:

- Publicly espousing doctrines clearly in opposition to, and formulated specifically to target and undermine, those established doctrines of [whatever recognized religions], AND

- Holding assemblies, in private or in public, to further spread these doctrines under color of religious authority.

That might do for a starting point. Here, you have to show that the person actually did something in public (espousing doctrines... it doesn't matter if anybody listened to her in public), AND that she did something in private or public and somebody else DID listen to her.

The first part is enough to allow the law to move against crazed unwashed prophets in the village square... provided they target an established religion. (So presumably a prophet who said "Give away all your possessions" would be ignored, but one who said "Give away all your possessions and resist the materalistic lure of [Fill in the blank with a religion]" would be in trouble.)

The second part is enough to allow the law to move against organized meetings, again targeting an established religion. (So a meeting of four or five people discussing a completely unrelated religion could be safe.)

See any plot hooks for saving the girl's life? Your PCs might try to argue that even though she was talking about a religion targeting that church, she wasn't doing so publicly. Or maybe she was talking publicly, but she wasn't targeting any religion.

You could even argue that her claim to be a prophet of the religion is so far removed that it no longer even counts as the same religion.

(Bear in mind that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all recognize a large number of prophets and historical figures in common - Moses appears in all of them, as does Abraham... but nobody would get them mixed up these days. As opposed to, say, Buddhism, which has absolutely nothing in common.)

So now you can play with that and figure out what your PCs need to prove. Then it's time to go about proving it.

- Finding eyewitnesses and testimony. A series of Gather Information checks would help here, as would Diplomacy or even Bluff. PCs would find eyewitnesses who could prove that the girl was not where the opposition says she was, or didn't engage in the midnight naked dancing that they said she did (for example).

However, getting witnesses to testify is a different matter. Even in the best of times, witnesses don't like to be bothered. In court, they're going to face cross-examination, obnoxious questions, and sometimes even personal attacks on their character. The PCs are going to have to be persuasive to get these particular eyewitnesses to testify. Even things like browbeating or bullying them into doing what's right may be necessary.

Others may simply be too scared of the opposition to dare to cross them. Say a village alderman knows the girl is innocent and holds key testimony that she never even entered the place of worship on January 23, 376 (thus disproving the first allegation against her). But say the alderman's daughter is married to a church member. He doesn't want to alienate her family by testifying on behalf of an accused heretic.

Sounds like a ripe time for Diplomacy for the PCs. They could go between the houses, trying to convince them that the girl is not a heretic. Or they could pressure the alderman into testifying (although they'd better be careful once he gets on the stand to make sure he doesn't say anything unexpected).

Or say another man (who had fairly unscrupulous reasons for doing so) saw her bathing at the time that she was supposed to have been in church espousing heretical claims. Understandably he'll be reluctant to come forward to present that evidence. The PCs will have to persuade him that he will not be subject to prosecution for his actions. They may even have to do some research on what Peeping-Tom laws are. (It might just be enough to talk to the girl and get her word that she will never press charges against the peeper.) Or it's possible that he was doing something else that was objectionable - perhaps he was casing her house in preparation to rob it, or hiding in the bushes near her house playing hooky from millgrinding duty, etc.

Sometimes, it can be a case of stealthily acquiring documents from the other side to show as proof. Or to trounce the opposition's henchmen so badly in a fight that they stop trying to intimidate your witnesses. It can be digging up dirty news about the opposition's witnesses to present in court so nobody will believe what they say. It can be searching far and wide for an expert (or a mage!) who can use their methods to prove that the blood drops or weapon scars or poison or whatever was NOT what the plaintiffs say they were.

Either way, have fun with this and I hope it gives your players a sense of triumphing with the pen, not the sword.

And never forget the example set by Phoenix Wright, Ace Attorney.
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Post by Rotipher of the FoS »

One other factor to consider is that the Church of Ezra -- even the stick-in-the-mud Home Faith -- doesn't necessarily come down like a ton of bricks on every fringe-element fanatic who preaches on a street corner. On the contrary, they're open to the notion that Ezra reveals new aspects of her purpose and nature through such visionaries; it's what each of the various existing sects were founded on. Furthermore, if a would-be sect fails the test to prove its legitimacy (e.g. by manifesting a new Shield of Ezra), the books don't claim that the failed sect is hunted down and wiped out: there are still plenty of crackpots out there who claim that Ezra had a mortal child, that Ezra was male, that there is no Grand Scheme, etc, and their main "punishment for heresy" seems to be one of being ignored, not persecuted.

So before a potential heresy-trial could even come to a head, you'd need to settle the issues of:

A) Is the odem-possessed girl a genuine prophet of Ezra? If she can prove her sect is a legitimate one, as detailed in Gaz III, then the Home Faith -- which, after all, is Lawful Neutral and must abide by the policies it has established for itself -- may have no choice but to accept that what she says is as legitimate as what any other Bastion claims. They wouldn't bow down and worship her as Ezra, but they would have no legal grounds to challenge her interpretation of the faith, under canon law. (IIRC, this is actually what the odem is counting upon, to disrupt the Ezran religion at its core by using its own policies and creed against it.)

B) If she's not a prophet, is she just plain nuts? There are so many Lost Ones in Ravenloft, spouting all kinds of malarkey, that the possibility that this girl is simply insane -- and hence, ill rather than evil -- certainly won't escape the Home Faith's notice. If she becomes a political liability to the established Church, then it may serve their interests to have her quietly locked up in an asylum (probably alongside all the other young women who think they're Ezra, or male lunatics who think they're Azalin Rex, etc :twisted: ) rather than allow her to grandstand at a trial and draw more attention to herself. The odem wouldn't want this -- indeed, it will probably stop at nothing to prevent it -- as the girl might be subjected to divine magic in an attempt to cure her "illness", once committed, thus revealing the evil spirit's influence.

C) Is she causing enough trouble that the secular authorities should step in and handle it? If her attempts to prove she's Ezra result in riots or other violence -- whether or not she deliberately instigated them -- then it may be wisest for the Church to sit back and let the Dark Twins' "justice" shut her up permanently. The Home Faith is powerful in Borca, but it still takes a back seat to the darklords' political control, and if Rhiannon ticks them off, the Church wouldn't be able to save her if it wanted to, let alone if it's content to see her disappear. The fact that the girl is, IIRC, very beautiful, and becoming the center of attention, may also feed into Ivana's jealousy, adding a personal grudge from a darklord to the list of forces stacked against the unwitting would-be "Ezra".

All of this can lead up to the eventual trial, if the girl passes the test, is proven to be sane, and isn't arrested and/or poisoned for being a pest by Ivana or Ivan. In the process, potential charges against her can be built up -- charges, which the PCs themselves will have been involved in, in the preceeding adventures -- that can be brought against her at trial. As the PCs will have observed many of these alleged offenses in progress first-hand, they can be called as witnesses for or against (or even some of each, if the PCs disagree with one another about Rhiannon's status!) the girl's defense.
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Post by WolfKook »

Ok, I understand the point about the Church of Ezra being more open than, say, the Catholic Church of the late middle ages. However, this girl claims to be Ezra incarnated, and there are people who believe her. Moreso, she has come to point out the corruption and lack of faith of his Church (And Valeri Antonin -the odem who controls her -will see to that), and the growing number of her followers will hear her words on that. With people turning out from the Church and doubting the anchorites, the presence of Ryannon will become a pain in the neck for some of them.

And she will become an annoyance to other people, which may -and will -include Ivana, cause Ryannon is not there to keep her mouth shut in a land full of excess... An the Darklady surely is an influential figure to the church, as Rotipher has already pointed out.

Add to that some sort of paranoid hysteria, especially among the darkonian branch: As the prophecy goes, Ezra will return to the land just before the ToUD, and there will be a fifth branch in her Church. Her coming brings, then, not a message of hope, but one of destruction. Many will fear her coming, and for some people the first reaction to what they fear is to try to destroy it (Yeap, I plan on having the PCs be bodyguards as well as lawyers, to keep even those who are less dramatic than the rest interested).

Finally, unlike what happened with other heresies, in this one Ryannon comes as a living proof of what she is saying. The Church may not be affected by unproved rumors, such as "Ezra had a mortal child" or "Ezra was a male" or "Ezra was a priestess of Hala", but it may be by its god coming down to the land and telling everybody that everything their priests have been saying is a lie!

Thus, the fact is that Ryannon will indeed be guilty of publicly speaking against the canon teachings of the Church of Ezra; So, though the trial will surely start up with the PCs trying to prove her innocence (And I will surely be using HuManBing's amazing legal advice), it will probably end up focusing on proving that her teachings are not against canonical doctrines (And, by the way, that she is indeed Ezra incarnated when most of the anchorites refuse to believe so).

There come two of my bigger problems: First, I don't know if a discussion on fictional theology would be fun for anyone, or how can I make it so. Second, if I'm the DM, i'm the judge and the prosecutor. Worse yet, I know more than they do about the Home Faith, and I have the power to make things up ("The Second Book of Ezra, Chapter 5, Verse 7 says this or that") and make them canon. How can I make them believe that they stand a chance?

To make things worse, even if she is not (I plan on having several possible endings to my adventure), Ryannon truly believes she is who she claims she is, so she will end up behaving like a Joan of Arc (Or Jesus, for that matter) in her trial: "I am who i am", "I have to prove you nothing" (Refusing to show her Shield), "You will not put your god to the test", and such (I haven't said it will be an easy trial, just that I want them to believe that they have a chance).

In the end, one of the main points of the adventure is to show how deep goes the corruption within the church of Ezra. The Home Faith is big, after all, it is growing, and it has a considerable amount of power. It would be no surprise that everybody wants a piece of it, and that several of its members had been tempted by the dark forces of the world over the years (I plan on using several characters from the netbooks to show that). It's a high-level adventure, after all.
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Post by Mortepierre »

WolfKook wrote:There come two of my bigger problems: First, I don't know if a discussion on fictional theology would be fun for anyone, or how can I make it so. Second, if I'm the DM, i'm the judge and the prosecutor. Worse yet, I know more than they do about the Home Faith, and I have the power to make things up ("The Second Book of Ezra, Chapter 5, Verse 7 says this or that") and make them canon. How can I make them believe that they stand a chance?
Well, obviously, how things work out during the trial is going to depend on whether one (or more) of the players belong to the Church of Ezra as they are the most likely candidates for a theological debate.

Such a debate doesn't need to be confined to quoting precise sentences from the 4 holy books of Ezra. It will be more like a broad discussion about certain beliefs. For instance, is the fifth book supposed to be revealed to us only just prior to the ToUD? Or, the Church always required people bearing a new message to display a new shield. Since the Church is the expression of the will of Ezra, why does her "avatar" refuse to demonstrate it to us?

Of course, in a real debate, people would underscore their arguments by quoting the sacred texts. You can simulate that easily enough by a Knowledge (religion) check. When two persons argue about a specific point, make opposed checks and whoever remembered the best quote (and won the point).

As for the trial itself, I can offer only one example of how it might be done. I ran recently a RPGA module where the PC were acting as the advocates for two persons accused of treason against the state. The whole trial was role-played too.

As the DM, I had a list of arguments and things the PC could have done prior to (or during) the trial that would influence the final result. For instance:
- PC secured the testimony of the mayor: +2
- PC saved the judge's life on his way to the trial: +1
- PC tried to bribe judge: -5
- PC has at least 5 ranks in Profession (lawyer): +1
- PC is a nobleman: +1
- PC's Diplomacy check was at least 25: +1
- PC hinted that the emperor was wrong: -3
and so forth...

At the end of the trial, I had to add all the modifiers and compare the total to a table. In turn, the table would tell me how the judge(s) ruled.

For example:
- 0 or below: guilty as charged / death sentence / PC arrested
- 1 to 3: guilty as charged / death sentence
- 4 to 6: warrior is guilty / lifetime in salt mine / healer is innocent
- 7+: both accused cleared of charges / emperor isn't happy...

Just an idea, mind you, but it worked rather well during the session.
Last edited by Mortepierre on Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by DeepShadow of FoS »

WolfKook wrote:Many will fear her coming, and for some people the first reaction to what they fear is to try to destroy it.
Not to mention that many might consider this a perfectly legitimate test of her powers: if she's really Ezra, she can't be harmed, and if she's not, they kill a heretic. Either way, the Church wins...so goes the justification.
There come two of my bigger problems: First, I don't know if a discussion on fictional theology would be fun for anyone, or how can I make it so.
It's tough, but I'd start by outlining the various ways she could get off, and have them go from the easiest to hardest to increase tension. For example:

A) Get charges dropped quietly before it starts. Give them some hope of this, then slam the door shut and force them to
B) Go to trial, but plead guilty to a lesser charge. Their client probably hangs this up at the last minute, which leads to
C) Go to trial on the higher charge, but try to prove her not guilty of preaching. That caves, so they are forced to
D) Go out on a limb to try to prove that she's not contradicting anyone, or that she is, in fact, Ezra.
Second, if I'm the DM, i'm the judge and the prosecutor. Worse yet, I know more than they do about the Home Faith, and I have the power to make things up ("The Second Book of Ezra, Chapter 5, Verse 7 says this or that") and make them canon. How can I make them believe that they stand a chance?
In addition to the advice you've already got, I'd add that you should give them points for making stuff up on the fly, too. I'd make the main roll be a Diplomacy check, and make all that other stuff (lawyer profession, gentry, on the judge's good side) modifiers to the main roll.
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Post by HuManBing »

You can get around the problem of defending against a made-up canon of religion by being very clear about what the "Book" says from the start. Give them passages that they can puzzle over and interpret and try to twist to their advantage.

Or, you could just come up with the village's own rules on religion and practising it. Like statutes, these override anything broader and are the ultimate authority at the local level. These would probably be easier for you, as a commoner DM, to invent because they don't need to be religious and they can be written in mainstream language.

In fact, if I were an Ezrite who didn't like the way this girl was going about her business, I'd probably want to get a town law charge against her, rather than a religious law charge. Assuming that there's many religions and only one law for the town, I'd want any punishment against her to be recognized by the whole town.

This of course means your players would have a plainly written set of laws that they can use to their interpretation.

Then let them find out who the opposition has on their side as witnesses and what they may be able to tell the court. If the PCs can find episodes where these witnesses contradicted what they're about to tell the court, they may be able to get the court to reject their claims.

(Say if one old woman is ranting and raving about the girl's devilish ways... if the PCs can do some back investigation, they might find out she is living with her niece and in fact moved to the village recently. Moreover, she was expelled from her previous village for bearing false witness... in a heresy case!)
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Post by WolfKook »

Thank you guys for all your help. It's been very enlightening, and now I know how to conduct this adventure. I will try to write it in english, so you may be able to browse through it and tell me what you think. I don't want to promise too much, though... My english is a little rusty these days.
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Post by HuManBing »

How did this go? *bump*
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