Ctulhu d20?

[Le Noir Faineant]

Hello,

I am looking for CoC d20 for a while too, since I am MotRD, errh, supporter (I will probably never play, but I still like the setting and I find the supplements very inspiring...) and now my question is, is the book interesting regarding to rule-extensions (new PCs, monsters etc.) or can I skip it without problem and buy *just any other d20 Horror* booklet?

Thank you!

Rafael

[ScS of the Fraternity]

D20 Call of Chulhu is, at least in my humble opinion, one of the worst investments I have ever made. The rules contained in the book are all but usless.

Imagine playing a game of D&D, in which you face a horde of dragons and their armies of minions, and your character is crippled from the waist up - and is a cowardly idiot.
That is the essance of D20 Call of Cthulhu.

I cannot claim that classic CoC is without merrit, for i have never played it and I am aware that there are many fans of the series - so by definition there must be some fun to be had with those rules.
However, I can honestly say that the D20 Call of Cthulhu rules are absolutly useless.
For example, the book makes an exhaustive list of Elder Gods and other eldrich things - giving each their full stats. This of course completly neglects that these gawds are supposed to be completly immune to all human influence, hence the pathetic weakness of human beings - thus the very idea that they have finite hitpoints runs square in the face of the theme.
As well, the book gives damage reduction 15/+1 to just about every single monster despite the fact that the core literature of Lovecraft specifically mentions that certain monsters were very vulnerable to mundane weapons (the mi-go, the deep ones, ect...).

Perhaps, with extensive modification of the Sanity Rules the maddness system could be salvaged from the burning wreakage.

D20 CoC is an abomination, composed to two halves warring with one another. On the one side, it advocates using the elements of lovecraftian lore in standard roleplaying, a game of action and adventure. While at the same time it tries to use D20 rules to run standard CoC, a game of helplessness and fear. The two forces combine to create written material that is completly unusable as written.
If you want to run a game of CoC using D20 rules, I suggest using the D20 Modern rules. Its much much easier and more fun.

[Le Noir Faineant]

Seems you REALLY didn't like this one!

Very good, then. This saves me my money for some better book!

I'd read some online reviews earlier, but I didn't really know what to think of them...

[Dr Bloodworth]

Perhaps, with extensive modification of the Sanity Rules the maddness system could be salvaged from the burning wreakage.

What's even more interesting... or not interesting, noteworthy I should say, is that the COC d20 Sanity rules are a direct rip of the Chaosium rules. Seriously. Nothing's changed at all.

I agree with what you're saying. The d20 system seems to somewhat encourage fighting. Whereas in the Chaosium version, you're relatively weak and remain so. No level ups or feat-granting or ability bonuses or anything.

You have an average of 15 HP, and even an expert, veteran investigator will have 15 HP. You're just tough enough to defeat cultists and at the outside, maybe some lesser minions of the Mythos, like you can manage to pull off a Deep One or a Mi-Go or maybe even a Byakhee. You won't stand a chance against Cthulhu or someone. And like ScS was alluding to, I prefer to throw all statistics for Great Old Ones and such out the window as after all, these guys are nigh unto gods.

Although thanks to COC d20, I can now import Cthulhu critters into my DnD games. You could just get d20, import the monsters into MotRD, maybe modding the statistics a wee bit, and voila!, you have Cthulhu By Gaslight (the 1890s supplement).

[Charney]

I think the stats were included to cover all bases. If they didn't include them, people could have whine that there were no stats.

One thing to consider though: while in a game of Cthulhu such stats don't make any sense, such monster could be used in another game. You need an epic god-like creature for a DnD game and your players already killed off Demogorgo and Grazzt, well through Cthulhu at them!

That said, I do admit my d20 CoC book is on a self and I have no idea what to do with it! The rules for playing in the 1920 weren't good and that's kinda why I bought it in the first place (then I became a Lovecraft fan so the book did serve something)

[Reginald de Curry]

I think the stats were included to cover all bases. If they didn't include them, people could have whine that there were no stats.

One thing to consider though: while in a game of Cthulhu such stats don't make any sense, such monster could be used in another game. You need an epic god-like creature for a DnD game and your players already killed off Demogorgo and Grazzt, well through Cthulhu at them!

That said, I do admit my d20 CoC book is on a self and I have no idea what to do with it! The rules for playing in the 1920 weren't good and that's kinda why I bought it in the first place (then I became a Lovecraft fan so the book did serve something)

Yeah, the idea was to please the munchkin god-hunters from Planescape, FR, etc. *hides*

[Coan]

I concur. Stats seem often included to 'round out' the information for all people -some of whom will want stats.

I also believe d20 CoC is not a good product. It is no longer directly supported by Wizards (they made the rule book, then a website and that was it for a year before they shut that part of their site down). Chaosium still makes things regarding CoC however.

[ScS of the Fraternity]

I concur - it seems most likely that the Gawd stats were just incorporated so that D&D players could fight Lovecraftian monsters. Truth be told, that's not so bad a thing - it just should have been its own book.
Lovecraftian literature, as well as other short stories depict human beings as being much more than a match for the minor horrors - especially the mi-go and the deep ones. Whisperer in the Dark, for example, had one man and his dogs kill several mi-go.

I think the biggest mistake was designing the creature stats to present a challenge to D&D players - rather than balanced for a fight with the CoCD20 Investigators.

Other than that, I guess I can still harp on the pathetic class system (less is not always more), as well as an unusable magic system (nice idea, but still way too costly).
That all said, I actually thought the psychic system was a good idea - though it too was usless without some manner of regenerating spent/lost sanity.

[Igor the Henchman]

I have the book, and surprisingly, can't say much that is bad about it. Granted, I'm not as familiar with the original version of the game, or Lovecraftian stories, so...

On the subject of stats, I don't really understand what the fuss is about. Even a glance at most of the Elder Gods and Great Old Ones' stat blocks evokes all but omnipotent beings. There's no way investigators - even 20-level - would stand a chance against most of these.

I mean, if we can't accept the idea of statting Elder Gods, why do we tolerate Gwydion being statted? He's never supposed to exit that gate. And what about Azalin? You could replace his whole stat block with "The lich drains all your memories and turns you into his slaves. No saving throw."

Just thought that a differing opinion might benefit the topic.

[Le Noir Faineant]

So, for my RL game, CoC d20 would be basically a new collection of high-level super-enemies and a new madness system... Naa, thanks! Those are things I simply don't need because I won't use them...

[Dominique]

I really loved the d20 CoC game I was in, but I'll readily admit that I have no idea how much of it was because of the system and how much was in spite of it. Our GM didn't let us read the rulebook, so I don't know how much he modified the rules. Given how good the campaign was, though, I'd definitely advise giving the book a quick browse-through in the store just to be sure.

Also, I'm going to defend the magic system again: I really like the fact that magic is linked to sanity loss. It makes sense in a world where magic isn't supposed to exist. Sanity loss represents seeing more and more things that you just Weren't Meant to See, and if you use magic then you're becoming one of those things. The ability damage can get kind of annoying, but I like the basic idea behind it--that magic has to cost something and tends to take that something away from the caster. It needs a bit of tweaking (it used to be entirely possible for me to drop 6 strength and 6 int in three rounds if things got really rough, which is a little on the ridiculous side), but the idea behind it is solid.

[The Giamarga]

Hmmm.... perhaps i should have started a thread like this before picking the book up on ebay. Well at 1 Euro plus (overrated) postage it is not too expensive. So I'll be reading it and make up my mind from there.
I could always resell it if it's that bad.....

[vipera aspis]

well, being a huge Lovecraft fan i would have to say; some of the art is pretty cool. And it makes a great paper weight. likely good fix for an uneven table or chair too.

[alhoon]

How about throwing it to someone? Is it useful for this too?