Let's show 'em how it's done!

[Rock of the Fraternity]

Why do it for a LGBQT+-character?
Because I really didn't want somebody to come along and go "she's evil 'cause she's gay trololol".
I also did not want to catch flak for having made an openly homosexual Darklord, if people were to interpret my using Camille's sexuality as the motivation for her fall.

[Mephisto of the FoS]

Why do it for a LGBQT+-character?
Because I really didn't want somebody to come along and go "she's evil 'cause she's gay trololol".
I also did not want to catch flak for having made an openly homosexual Darklord, if people were to interpret my using Camille's sexuality as the motivation for her fall.

True, but I see Five's point. Since what somebody writes is not written as to be offensive then there is no reason to explain. If anyone is annoyed by what is written then an explenation may be given.

[Rock of the Fraternity]

In an ideal world, that'd be fine.
One look at twitter is ample evidence that the world is not ideal.
I'd rather put up a disclaimer than get drawn into a flamewar.

And I had another reason for the disclaimer: I'd be mortified if my work had offended any lesbian who read it.

[alhoon]

Why do it for a LGBQT+-character?
Because I really didn't want somebody to come along and go "she's evil 'cause she's gay trololol".
I also did not want to catch flak for having made an openly homosexual Darklord, if people were to interpret my using Camille's sexuality as the motivation for her fall.

True, but I see Five's point. Since what somebody writes is not written as to be offensive then there is no reason to explain. If anyone is annoyed by what is written then an explenation may be given.

There are things that are offensive.
And there are people that are offended.

And these two things are not necessarily tied to each other. There are people that are offended when you wish them "Merry Christmas". That doesn't mean saying "Merry Christmas" is offensive, it means that some people are looking for reasons to be offended.

[Five]

In an ideal world, that'd be fine.
One look at twitter is ample evidence that the world is not ideal.
I'd rather put up a disclaimer than get drawn into a flamewar.

And I had another reason for the disclaimer: I'd be mortified if my work had offended any lesbian who read it.

Rock, for the record my question was not to you specifically. Your words triggered my (unasked) opinion and so I was really thinking out loud/speaking to the room or whoever happened to read my words.

Now I will ask you two question, if I may, that ultimately follows the same logic: would you be mortified if your imagination piece about a "straight" woman offended a "straight" woman? If not, then why not?

You don't have to answer of course. And this too can be food for thought for all of us. .

[Rock of the Fraternity]

Yes, I would.

[SkiBird]

I'd rather put up a disclaimer than get drawn into a flamewar.

There are things that are offensive.
And there are people that are offended.

I agree with both, I guess?

I'm sure there are FoS members who can put it much more eloquently (and succinctly), but I think when folks wade onto these waters — writing about themes/people/events — that have a history of being marginalized or oppressed or whatever ... it just pays dividends to do it thoughtfully, and with an understanding that there is likely someone else out there might read/hear something that just really sits sideways with them.

It's why they always say, 'write what you know.' You are unconsciously adding an authenticity to your work just because of your worldview and years of research of the source material. I could, for example, convincingly write a tale about growing up in rural upstate NY. The Adirondacks, the people that call that land home, the hundreds of lakes, the small communities, their history, their mindset, etc. I would have a much harder time convincingly writing something about living in metropolitan Hong Kong. To anyone with a practiced eye ... it would be obvious that I had not ever set foot in the region. The foods, the sounds of the city, the culture, description of the streets and byways ... it would seem 'off' to anyone who had lived that as their experience.

That analogy transfers pretty well to writing about BIPOC or LGBTQ+ folks (if you aren't part of the community, I mean).

At the bad end of the spectrum, the material would lack authenticity. Or worse, seem to rely on/heavily use deliberate caricatures and stereotypes.

At the good end of the spectrum, no one notices and no one cares. The work is just taken at face value and there isn't a conversation about whether or not you realized such-and-such, or if the writer intended this-or-that. So, like most jobs, the research and the work that goes into navigating a touchy area is a bit of a thankless effort ... but still one that you do not want to mess up.

A good way for amateur folks (read: all of us) to preemptively handle/defuse that would be a quick, 'hey, this isn't really my background, here is what I intended' sort of statement. Would I do that for every piece of fiction or game material I write ... probably not. But, like Rock alluded to, I certainly would if the work touched on things that have been hotbeds for arguments in the past.

To Alhoon's point, at the end of the day, it's definitely a 'please some of the people, some of the time' type problem. No one is ever going to keep everyone happy. And if someone is offended, even after a 'hey guys, here is what I have done and what my intent was' ... then it's on them.

It doesn't take too much nowadays to make the internet mad.

[Five]

I'd rather put up a disclaimer than get drawn into a flamewar.

There are things that are offensive.
And there are people that are offended.

I agree with both, I guess?

I'm sure there are FoS members who can put it much more eloquently (and succinctly), but I think when folks wade onto these waters — writing about themes/people/events — that have a history of being marginalized or oppressed or whatever ... it just pays dividends to do it thoughtfully, and with an understanding that there is likely someone else out there might read/hear something that just really sits sideways with them.

It's why they always say, 'write what you know.' You are unconsciously adding an authenticity to your work just because of your worldview and years of research of the source material. I could, for example, convincingly write a tale about growing up in rural upstate NY. The Adirondacks, the people that call that land home, the hundreds of lakes, the small communities, their history, their mindset, etc. I would have a much harder time convincingly writing something about living in metropolitan Hong Kong. To anyone with a practiced eye ... it would be obvious that I had not ever set foot in the region. The foods, the sounds of the city, the culture, description of the streets and byways ... it would seem 'off' to anyone who had lived that as their experience.

That analogy transfers pretty well to writing about BIPOC or LGBTQ+ folks (if you aren't part of the community, I mean).

When framed in fantasy/fiction, I don't think it does. It's too limiting. If we were to stay on that road, suddenly writers can only imagine and write/express those things they have "authentic" real life experience with/in. And that's just ridiculous in how wrong it is.

If a writer were to be inspired by and want to fantasy-up particular real world persons /places/things, then sure. It would be wise to wear down the soles of your boots. But if all they wanted to do was add trim to their characters then it's absolutely not necessary. NotthatI'mawriter...cough

Love, hate, lust, honour, greed, bravery, cowardice, etc...these are universal concepts that transcend the superficialities of their avatars/victims/whathaveyou. If a writer writes a character around these concepts then the writer is free to portray anything through anyone. You don't need to be X to be able to write X. And you most certainly shouldn't ever feel the need to apologise to anyone in the real world for expressing your imagination. If they can't detach themselves from reality and get your piece then either you did a poor job in your execution or they're just a ******* nutjob looking for thin-skinned people to scratch. If you don't mix up your character trim and you develop/carry over a cut and paste real-world based stereotype of A or B (A is always A, B is always B), then yeah, you deserve a tongue banging. Otherwise, think it and write it. You for everybody, you for you, everybody for everybody, everybody for themselves. It's all fair in fiction. Especially for hobby writers that aren't writing to, and sometimes bound by, a personal fanbase.

Don't sweat it (or the internet; they're largely modified/self-idealised personas anyway!), and remember: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G_RhJuh7VWs

[SkiBird]

^^ Totally, we're both saying the same thing.