Ravenloft is back in 5e?

[onmyoji]

If Gundarak never existed there’s no Zeidenburg or Teufeldorf or discontent Gundarakite ethnicity to absorb.

I must've missed that Gundarak got thrown out entirely then. If that's the case, then maybe the lack of appearance of that territory in CoS might be why they decided to ditch Gundarak rather than attempt to save it.

— onmyoji

[Strahdsbuddy]

If Gundarak never existed there’s no Zeidenburg or Teufeldorf or discontent Gundarakite ethnicity to absorb.

I must've missed that Gundarak got thrown out entirely then. If that's the case, then maybe the lack of appearance of that territory in CoS might be why they decided to ditch Gundarak rather than attempt to save it.

— onmyoji

Maybe it hasn’t been but how does Barovia and Invidia absorb Gundarak after the Grand conjunction if there’s no Core and maybe no Grand Conjunction?

[onmyoji]

Maybe it hasn’t been but how does Barovia and Invidia absorb Gundarak after the Grand conjunction if there’s no Core and maybe no Grand Conjunction?

Just because CoS canonically takes place in 735 doesn't mean this guide has to pretend nothing after that happened. Especially since 5E is often very vague on canonical events that modules occur. There are sites dedicated to trying to determine what canonical years the 5E modules occur. So with it being that "canon-light," it's entirely possible that CoS having been set in 735 might well be irrelevant to the guide. Or at least we can hope.

Further, since it's going to discuss individual domains and at least pretend to be a campaign setting, I do expect at least a small blurb on the GC. It's not without precedent either. The Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide has a good twelve paragraphs on the Second Sundering and its effects, though even that event deserves more. I can't imagine them not including at least a brief timeline of Ravenloft lore and explanations in order to further the setting.

Now, to be clear, just because I can't imagine them not doing that doesn't mean they won't omit it anyway But the GC is basically the equivalent of the Second Sundering for Ravenloft. If it goes wholly ignored in the new VR guide, then I guess we know what we can expect of WotC for the rest of 5E's time.

— onmyoji

[Five]

In case people missed it, no more Core. Only islands in the mists ("In this new interpretation, every domain is a lonely island drifting through the mists.").

So no new map of the Core

Just wait until people start taking a crack at mapping and clustering all these islands into a Core. We're going to see some really cool configurations I think.

And having them as islands might work well in isolating them for development too. Pick from the litter and go to town.

It might not be what we're used to, but it could really open up Ravenloft to be the first custom-made setting that D&D has come up with. If it's a catch and release on Wizards' part.

[onmyoji]

Just wait until people start taking a crack at mapping and clustering all these islands into a Core. We're going to see some really cool configurations I think.

And having them as islands might work well in isolating them for development too. Pick from the litter and go to town.

It might not be what we're used to, but it could really open up Ravenloft to be the first custom-made setting that D&D has come up with. If it's a catch and release on Wizards' part.

I think that's what I'm looking forward to the most now—how reactions to this guide will undoubtedly trigger player creativity (specifically here on FoS) for the better. It's never bad to give both new and seasoned players reason and drive to produce new resources for us all.

Though I can't help but believe that the breakup of the Core is expressly due to the idea that once you're in Barovia, you really can't leave Barovia (at least not without beating or bargaining with Strahd), as employed in CoS. I never played 2E / 3E, but the lore suggests crossing from one domain into an adjacent one wasn't by any means difficult. Hard to keep CoS players in Barovia if they can just tiptoe into another domain. So that's probably the main reason they decided to break up the Core. Not that this fouls up the plans for my particular campaign anyway.

— onmyoji

[Le Noir Faineant]

I'm pretty surprised about how negative the overall response to the announcement has been: Good or bad, it rejuvenates this very community here, and it gives the setting another twenty years of lifespan, if we're lucky. Like, to put this in perspective: If you started playing with the "Realm of Terror" boxed set, you're at least between 40 and 50 years old. If you started with the the Kargatane, and their first forays into 3rd edition, like Yours Truly did - that was well about twenty years ago, fam.

Now, that this long-rumored new edition wouldn't be "classic" Ravenloft, that should have been clear to anyone who read CoS. I doubt it's a bad thing, though - like the first few RL adventures back in the 1990s, this looks like it will be a lot about testing new concepts. If the old RL is any indicator, at all, then we're going to see a lot of fluctuation among the stuff that fans don't like, in the years to come. Like, that female Drakova, she better be interesting.

Again, that's why I think there will be a notable difference between the setting as presented, and the setting as played: I've looked into some old Dungeon Mag adventures, "The Price of Revenge" and "The Lady of Mists", recently. They are presented as pretty basic D&D-ish romps, really. Except that, because of the horror background, noone with an adult's, and an adult storyteller's perspective, is going to run them as written - and THAT's what makes them great, to this day.

That's why I expect modern Ravenloft to take a grittier, more fan-pleasing turn as soon as the corporate lions feel like they've done their duty. Who knows, maybe even some of the old Kargat, or of the Kargatane can be lured into penning a new adventure, if the new setting is a success? - Like, about Vlada Drakova being disposed by her vampiric cousin... Vlad...

[Mephisto of the FoS]

Though I can't help but believe that the breakup of the Core is expressly due to the idea that once you're in Barovia, you really can't leave Barovia (at least not without beating or bargaining with Strahd), as employed in CoS. I never played 2E / 3E, but the lore suggests crossing from one domain into an adjacent one wasn't by any means difficult. Hard to keep CoS players in Barovia if they can just tiptoe into another domain. So that's probably the main reason they decided to break up the Core. Not that this fouls up the plans for my particular campaign anyway.i

Actually Barovia was one of the only domains whose borders were always closed by Strahds poisoning fog as is the Village of Barovia. Whoever travels through Barovia (merchants, charlatans, a travelling circus, adventurers etc) must contact the Vistani to get the antidote, from a bargain they had when this mystical people entered the Land of Mists. So Barovia was always closed to the world around it thus Brovians are xenophopic. They are isolated by the Darklord's mentality, similar to if I am a prisoner so are my subjects, and their own fear of strangers. By the use of the poisoning fog he has control and information of who enters or leaves Barovia. Strahd is a total control freak as well as Azalin, Von Kharkov, D'Honaire and most other domain lords.

[Jonathan Winters]

Hey everyone,

Yeah, I'm on wait and see ATM.

While I am reading about how we are all talking about the Arthaus era (and so much of it was very good IMHO) and how much will be taken into consideration, I am keeping in mind (before some of us start prepping tar and feathers for the authors ) is that RL belongs to Wizards.

They can do what they want with it. As much as I would like RL to continue in a Kargatane-like fashion flavour, story of S, etc. that seems unlikely. From a marketing POV, how many of us here represent a big chunk of Wizards' customers buying this? I am ASSUMING not that many compared to the rest of their clients.

Someone mentioned only two new sub-classes I think? I still play PFRPG 1E, so to me that's not a deal-breaker. But, looking back on some books, personally, I think less PC classes and more worldbuilding is better. Cos I go back to the world building more than the classes in the long run (but give us themes and/or organizations to flesh characters out).

Also, copyrights. All those gazetteers? Just who is the owner of those books? Rights to reprint? Take ideas from as is? I get to feeling A LOT of the stuff is more complicated than we think / know about.

As far as giving us ''the setting'' we know and love? Just how many pages does this baby have? Nah. I don't see it. Anyhow, I don't want a rehash so I'm good with that.

Also I've only skimmed through an interview about this book, I think people should read these and the product description before buying it and being horribly disappointed (but I do understand, I.E. don't get me started on Keanu Reeves as John Constantine!?!??! Yes, I was very naïve... I obviously should have known better going in!!!! ) They are telling us what we'll be getting. This is a bit about managing expectations...

BUT, having said that, I THINK I will preorder this.
I want Wizards to know people still love this setting.
I am very curious.
I never really buy WIzards books anyway, so it's not like I'll be buying 12 books and be disappointed about how it ends.

And, I forget who mentioned doing a Crisis on Infinite Domains type of story.
I can get behind that. And each domain can retain its flavour: Be as low or hight fantasy as wanted / needed. So everyone can do its own thing with that. That feels like us, here at FoS.


Just me (trying to be) rational and sharing my (positive) cents here.

[onmyoji]

Actually Barovia was one of the only domains whose borders were always closed by Strahds poisoning fog as is the Village of Barovia. Whoever travels through Barovia (merchants, charlatans, a travelling circus, adventurers etc) must contact the Vistani to get the antidote, from a bargain they had when this mystical people entered the Land of Mists. So Barovia was always closed to the world around it thus Brovians are xenophopic. They are isolated by the Darklord's mentality, similar to if I am a prisoner so are my subjects, and their own fear of strangers. By the use of the poisoning fog he has control and information of who enters or leaves Barovia. Strahd is a total control freak as well as Azalin, Von Kharkov, D'Honaire and most other domain lords.

I had always taken it that just Castle Ravenloft (and sometimes the village of Barovia, depending on source) were closed by the "poisoning fog." Not the entire domain—at least not as large as it is in CoS or post-GC. The "poisoning fog" seems to be heavily (perhaps intentionally) conflated with the Mists in CoS, as the Mist causes exhaustion levels, and you can't ultimately leave it once you're trapped in Barovia.

But in the lore, people pass in and out of the Barovian domain all the time. Canonically, Azalin wages war on Barovia, as does Gundar—for quite awhile too. I can see an argument that "poisoning fog" doesn't work on Azalin's undead, but how is there a war between Barovia and Gundarak if the latter literally can't step over the border because of "poison fog"? In the novels, people come in and out of Barovia all the time from different domains too. Even in the non-novel lore, people like Tara Kolyana just up and leave Barovia without issue. If she were the most recent pre-CoS incarnation of Tatyana, then how is that even possible? Moving into newer times, how would Van Richten get into Barovia in CoS, especially if he's canonically based in Mordent by then? Why would Strahd ever let anyone in aside from outlanders who aren't from the Core to begin with? There's just so many questions this sparks.

If the "poison fog" borders the entire domain, there's just way too many times people get around it. And I think regarding the Vistani antidote, that's only mentioned in one or two novels, and CoS (if I'm not mistaken) makes it expressly clear that such an antidote is really just a scam.

Now that I think about it, is it possible that the "poison fog" circled the whole domain back in earlier editions when the domain was just the castle and Barovia? Perhaps it is up to the reader, but maybe it's entirely possible that as the domain grew larger, the "poison fog" stayed in the same area?

I'd have to do more research into it, but that's what I've got from memory.

— onmyoji

[FiranDarcalus]

Actually Barovia was one of the only domains whose borders were always closed by Strahds poisoning fog as is the Village of Barovia. Whoever travels through Barovia (merchants, charlatans, a travelling circus, adventurers etc) must contact the Vistani to get the antidote, from a bargain they had when this mystical people entered the Land of Mists. So Barovia was always closed to the world around it thus Brovians are xenophopic. They are isolated by the Darklord's mentality, similar to if I am a prisoner so are my subjects, and their own fear of strangers. By the use of the poisoning fog he has control and information of who enters or leaves Barovia. Strahd is a total control freak as well as Azalin, Von Kharkov, D'Honaire and most other domain lords.

I had always taken it that just Castle Ravenloft (and sometimes the village of Barovia, depending on source) were closed by the "poisoning fog." Not the entire domain—at least not as large as it is in CoS or post-GC. The "poisoning fog" seems to be heavily (perhaps intentionally) conflated with the Mists in CoS, as the Mist causes exhaustion levels, and you can't ultimately leave it once you're trapped in Barovia.

But in the lore, people pass in and out of the Barovian domain all the time. Canonically, Azalin wages war on Barovia, as does Gundar—for quite awhile too. I can see an argument that "poisoning fog" doesn't work on Azalin's undead, but how is there a war between Barovia and Gundarak if the latter literally can't step over the border because of "poison fog"? In the novels, people come in and out of Barovia all the time from different domains too. Even in the non-novel lore, people like Tara Kolyana just up and leave Barovia without issue. If she were the most recent pre-CoS incarnation of Tatyana, then how is that even possible? Moving into newer times, how would Van Richten get into Barovia in CoS, especially if he's canonically based in Mordent by then? Why would Strahd ever let anyone in aside from outlanders who aren't from the Core to begin with? There's just so many questions this sparks.

If the "poison fog" borders the entire domain, there's just way too many times people get around it. And I think regarding the Vistani antidote, that's only mentioned in one or two novels, and CoS (if I'm not mistaken) makes it expressly clear that such an antidote is really just a scam.

Now that I think about it, is it possible that the "poison fog" circled the whole domain back in earlier editions when the domain was just the castle and Barovia? Perhaps it is up to the reader, but maybe it's entirely possible that as the domain grew larger, the "poison fog" stayed in the same area?

I'd have to do more research into it, but that's what I've got from memory.

— onmyoji

So in Red Box 2nd edition (which is when I joined the Ravenloft community) & 3rd edition Sword & Sorcery, the poison mist ONLY surrounded village of Barovia. Strahd could raise that same mist to close his borders, but it did not constantly cover the realm. In fact, 3rd edition makes a point to mention that, due to the Shadow Rift cutting off east/west travel, the Old Svalich Road becomes a major trade artery from places like Borca, etc east to Nova Vaasa. Just nobody really wants to linger in Barovia due to rep & the fact that the real markets are east & west of it. But anyone can travel into & out of Barovia. However, the mist ring still covers the TOWN of Barovia, which forces merchant to pay the Vistani for their elixir in order to continue on.

Hope that helps.

[onmyoji]

So in Red Box 2nd edition (which is when I joined the Ravenloft community) & 3rd edition Sword & Sorcery, the poison mist ONLY surrounded village of Barovia. Strahd could raise that same mist to close his borders, but it did not constantly cover the realm. In fact, 3rd edition makes a point to mention that, due to the Shadow Rift cutting off east/west travel, the Old Svalich Road becomes a major trade artery from places like Borca, etc east to Nova Vaasa. Just nobody really wants to linger in Barovia due to rep & the fact that the real markets are east & west of it. But anyone can travel into & out of Barovia. However, the mist ring still covers the TOWN of Barovia, which forces merchant to pay the Vistani for their elixir in order to continue on.

Hope that helps.

Absolutely it does. Though I can easily see why having two types of mist in the same general domain with the same person controlling them can easily lead to confusion.

— onmyoji

[JMaytr]

Having just read this entire thread it seems abundantly clear that the mods disagreed with Ewan politically, and then mocked him. He is a soldier who served in the US Military in Iraq and they mocked "shell-shocked" soldiers with ptsd at him. despicable.

[Wolfglide of the Fraternity]

First of all, thank you for that information. It certainly casts a new light on the events that transpired. Now, I never saw the unedited version of Ewan’s final response, but some inkling of the reason behind his reaction is clearer to me.

That being said, I currently do not see the moderator comment about “shell-shock” as mockery. To my mind, it was an example chosen to illustrate a point; unfortunately, the particular example had unforseen consequences.

Ironically, this event ties straight back into the heart of the debate which precipitated it. What may be innocuous to one person can have strong, negative effects on others. We don’t live in other people’s shoes, and we need to be conscious of that fact. I'm certainly not perfect at it.

Having risked putting my foot in my mouth (a physical feat I was quite proud of accomplishing in my childhood), I will withdraw. Pardon me.

[Five]

Having just read this entire thread it seems abundantly clear that the mods disagreed with Ewan politically, and then mocked him. He is a soldier who served in the US Military in Iraq and they mocked "shell-shocked" soldiers with ptsd at him. despicable.

This isn't the 1910s when "shell shocked" soldiers lacked "moral fibre" and were cowards.
People have real feelings and can experience real trauma, and being reminded of said trauma conjures very real emotional distress.

Put the torch down, JMaytr, and read that again.

I don't know nothing about nothing in regards to how things were taken and what triggered the trigger, or even what the response was, but if that was it (or tone of the latter part; ie: "preaching to the choir") then that is the obvious focal point of peaceful reconnect...

[Drinnik Shoehorn]

I still feel the urge to point out that the changes made to this book do what no other new edition of a setting has done and made all the previously established lore invalid to feed the ego of the talentless.