Long-term Recurring Villains

Discussing all things Ravenloft
Hanbaoge
Conspirator
Conspirator
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:57 am
Location: Taipei, Taiwan ROC

Re: Long-term Recurring Villains

Post by Hanbaoge »

Another old character I'm curious about is Natalia Vhorishkova......has anyone done anything with her as a recurring villain?

On a somewhat unrelated note, has anyone ever explored the idea of George Weathermay falling to darkness as a result of his hunting Natalia, or Gennifer being taken over by lycanthropy? If so, how did you eventually play it out?
Mistmaster
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 1153
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:27 pm

Re: Long-term Recurring Villains

Post by Mistmaster »

I actually had Natalia bearing George a son, thus giving him an anchor to his humanity.
User avatar
Rock of the Fraternity
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 6102
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:16 pm

Re: Long-term Recurring Villains

Post by Rock of the Fraternity »

Um. Natalia is a natural lycanthrope. Doesn't that mean the kid would be one as well?

"Nathan Weathermay! Do NOT bite the mailman! No, Nathan, nooo! Please listen to Daddy!"
Mistmaster
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 1153
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:27 pm

Re: Long-term Recurring Villains

Post by Mistmaster »

Yes, but Marius heritage still has to manifest (The boy is seven, he will get his first transformation somewhere from 11 and 15).
User avatar
Joël of the FoS
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6665
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 1:24 pm
Gender: Male
Location: St-Damien, Québec

Re: Long-term Recurring Villains

Post by Joël of the FoS »

Hanbaoge wrote:Another old character I'm curious about is Natalia Vhorishkova......has anyone done anything with her as a recurring villain?
She is in my game too.

- they learn of Gennifer's probable lycanthropy, and that her "mother" is Natalia
- they learn that Nathan Timothy's lover is Natalia
- Laurie WF is kidnapped by werewolves
- they hunt and kill Nathan to save Laurie and so a PC can try to get out of lycanthropy (he was bitten by Nathan)
- Natalia is present during the battle but she escapes. And now hates the PCs. During the night, the heroes have the following vision… (cut scene!) After the battle, Natalia is alone in a small hole in the rocks. She is licking her wounds and is shaking with rage …

Later :
- the PCs embark the SS Bonniville and solve a murder mystery by killing a young lady werewolf.
- the PCs later learn said lady is the daughter of Natalia
- Natalia is really furious!

Later:
- while sequestered in Dominia, the PC have the surprise to find Natalia as a VIP guest/paramour of Dr Heinfroth

I do not know yet where it will go but it will be fun as the PCs fear and hate her.
She is taking her time to get the best revenge possible.

Joël
"A full set of (game) rules is so massively complicated that the only time they were all bound together in a single volume, they underwent gravitational collapse and became a black hole" (Adams)
Hanbaoge
Conspirator
Conspirator
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:57 am
Location: Taipei, Taiwan ROC

Re: Long-term Recurring Villains

Post by Hanbaoge »

Rock wrote: "Nathan Weathermay! Do NOT bite the mailman! No, Nathan, nooo! Please listen to Daddy!"
Puts a whole new spin on "being in the doghouse".......

I'm so sorry, I couldn't resist......
Hanbaoge
Conspirator
Conspirator
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:57 am
Location: Taipei, Taiwan ROC

Re: Long-term Recurring Villains

Post by Hanbaoge »

So the archaeological dig (going through the boxes in my storage) is done, and as much has been salvaged as possible. Unfortunately, a pretty decent chunk of my admittedly sparse notes and several RPG books have been water-damaged beyond all restoration......including my Van Richten's Collections......woe and sadness.......anyways, I've collated, compiled, interpreted and restored from memory as much of the mess as possible, so here's what I have for the epic Elsepeth campaign......if you can find something useful, by all means do so. If you've got comments, by all means share, as I'll prolly run this again, assuming I can find a local group.......

Basic Premise:
Isolde (Carnival) and Elsepeth (VRG:F) are sisters, and Elsepeth is also the Gentleman Caller.

Backstory:
Centuries ago, Isolde and Elsepeth were sisters and crusaders across the cosmos. As time passed and their victories mounted, so did the praise from the leaders of the Eladrin and from the younger knights who looked up to them. Elsepeth began to relish this praise and the power it gave her; further, she began to manipulate her admirers into even greater heights of flattery and devotion, playing favorites against each other, and constantly pushing for greater compliments. Isolde saw the darkness growing in her sister, but blinded by loyalty and love, continued to defend her.

Everything changed one fateful day, when Elsepeth led a raid deep into the heart of the Abyss itself, seeking even greater glories. The raid was ill-planned and ill-timed, and failed disastrously. Even as they attempted to flee home, her troops were picked off one by one, until only Elsepeth and a handful of her retainers were taken prisoner. After unspeakable tortures, the ghaele knight was eventually brought into the presence of Pale Night herself and forced to watch as each of her comrades was slowly put to death. Finally, the demon lord offered Elsepeth a choice – she could join her fellows, or she could swear loyalty to Pale Night and earn influence beyond her previous station. Desperate to save herself, Elsepeth took Pale Night’s offer, and in an obscene ceremony was transformed into a succubus demon.

Her first mission for the Pale Night was to seduce an eladrin noble called Ascodel, using her reputation among the ghaele, her new powers, and that her change was as yet unknown. Due to her efforts, Ascodel entered into a pact with Pale Night that trapped a generation of eladrin children in the Abyss for the demons to hunt as sport. Her part in the tragedy and her treason against the eladrin was soon revealed, and she returned to the Abyss a wanted criminal.

Isolde, heartbroken by her sister’s betrayal, swore vengeance and dedicated her entire existence to bringing Elsepeth to justice. A century ago, she nearly caught up with her sister, but the demon escaped by transpossessing with the first soul she found, inadvertently trapping herself in Ravenloft. Isolde demanded that her superiors allow her to follow, which they granted. They warned her, however, that she would also be trapped in the demiplane for all time – a price Isolde was all too willing to pay.
Last edited by Hanbaoge on Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hanbaoge
Conspirator
Conspirator
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:57 am
Location: Taipei, Taiwan ROC

Re: Long-term Recurring Villains

Post by Hanbaoge »

Current Sketch:
Elsepeth was bound by the Dark Powers on entering Ravenloft due to her unique nature as a former eladrin. As such, she is not subject to the limitations that other fiends experience with regards to power rituals, in that they will eventually begin to fail. Each ritual increases her potency, and the succubus believes that she could potentially come to dominate the entire demiplane. She also believes that doing so will give her either ability or opportunity to escape the Mists, hopefully leaving Isolde trapped behind. This, however, is a lie inspired by the Dark Powers – rather, she is continually tying herself tighter and tighter to the land, their goal being to eventually lock her into Darklord status.

Isolde is constantly taunted by the Dark Powers in that they provide her with clues as to Elsepeth’s whereabouts, but also create the mysterious flyers advertising the Carnival, thus warning Elsepeth of her sister’s imminent arrival. As such, Elsepeth always has time to wrap up her affairs and move on before Isolde can catch her.

Goals:
Elsepeth realizes that she is trapped in Ravenloft, but has developed a grand scheme to take control of the entire demiplane and drag it into the Abyss, either as a gift to Pale Night, or perhaps in an effort to achieve the status of demon lord in her own right. To that end she constantly wanders the domains, seeking targets that she can corrupt into pawns, setting up a game that only she knows the rules to. Once she is ready to make her final moves, either Ravenloft will fall to her, or she will take her pleasure in watching the world burn.
Isolde’s goal is clear: One way or another, Elsepeth will be brought to justice. Once that is done, Isolde will focus her energies on the other darklords of this new land, but until then her every thought is directed towards her sister.
Hanbaoge
Conspirator
Conspirator
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:57 am
Location: Taipei, Taiwan ROC

Re: Long-term Recurring Villains

Post by Hanbaoge »

Dread Possibilities:
1) Elsepeth and the Gentleman Caller are the same entity, with Elsepeth using illusions and magic to change herself into male when needed. To make this work, the DM will need to carefully monitor Elsepeth’s actions to ensure that she/he is encountered at the correct times.

2) Elsepeth and the Gentleman Caller are working together. In this scenario, the two demons are separate entities, and the DM can use the relevant materials as written with minor changes.

3) Elsepeth and the Gentleman Caller are separate, and not working together. As such, the focus shifts more towards the former, with the latter being another villain on the horizon. The DM will need to modify any GC-based adventures they wish to use.

4) Elsepeth is hunting the Gentleman Caller. Unknown to Isolde, her sister has come to regret her actions. However, she has been fooled by the Dark Powers into thinking that destroying the Gentleman Caller (or other fiends in Ravenloft) will give her the redemption she seeks. The DM should carefully monitor her actions as the campaign goes on to show her growing darkness.

5) The Gentleman Caller does not exist. All game materials that mention him refer instead of Elsepeth. The DM simply needs to make the necessary changes to fit them to Elsepeth’s plan. This possibility was the one used in the original run of this campaign.


Campaign Overview:
The required materials for this campaign are: Carnival, The Evil Eye, and the Castle Spulzeer/The Forgotten Terror crossover.

Opening Moves: Rather than directly involve themselves in Elsepeth’s schemes, the Dark Powers choose the PCs to fight their battle for them. They plan to observe and guide the players until they eventually find a way to stop or contain the succubus before she grows too powerful. They are also manipulating Isolde in the hopes that a confrontation between the sisters will end both sources of annoyance. As such, they have provided their pawn with a collection of stories titled Tales of the Champion (the in-campaign version of the Tome of Terror). Each story in the book provides direct information and clues about Elsepeth and Isolde’s true natures and how to stop them, assuming the players survive.

The campaign starts as any other, but the PCs should quickly come to realize that there is something sinister behind the scenes. Early adventures should not directly deal with Elsepeth or Isolde, but rather with the fallout of their actions, as the PCs become more familiar with the situation.

Check and Counter: As the PCs become more aware of the Elsepeth, likely through dealing with the consequences of her movement around the Demiplane, they will inevitably directly thwart one of her plans. At this point, they come to the succubus’ attention, and as time passes, also pose a threat to her long-term goals. Sooner or later the two sides will come into conflict, thus finally giving the players a clear picture of their enemy. By this point, the players should have encountered Isolde and the Carnival, and will gradually make the connection between the two women, likely due to Professor Pacali’s influence.

Endgame: At some point, the players should make stopping Elsepeth their official mission, but due to power rituals, she remains far beyond their abilities. Through the Tales of the Champion, however, the Dark Powers give the players a series of clues that should lead them towards the magical dagger Aggarath (from the Castle Spulzeer/Forgotten Terror crossover), with the idea that, while they may not be able to defeat her, they can instead trap her inside the ruby hilt for all time. The last few adventures will deal with direct action between the two sides, culminating in the crossover adventures, and the final confrontation between the sisters.
Hanbaoge
Conspirator
Conspirator
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:57 am
Location: Taipei, Taiwan ROC

Re: Long-term Recurring Villains

Post by Hanbaoge »

Notes:
The DM should remember that Elsepeth is a succubus whose modus operandi is seduction and corruption, and that she still bears bitter memories of her first defeat. As such, nowadays she is not inclined to direct action. At first, she will likely be totally unaware of the players until they directly thwart one of her plans, or defeat an especially valued minion. Even then, her usual response will be offering what she thinks the player(s) desire most (think the One Ring from LOTR). Further, as she has had decades of time to prepare, she will more than likely always remain one or two steps ahead of the players, and is always willing to sacrifice one plan or pawn in order to preserve others.

The Tales of the Champion will likely become the players’ greatest weapon, as each story gives clear and pertinent information about either Elsepeth, Isolde, or both. However, the DM should not soften the dangers of using the tome, as those who die in the stories die in real life. As such, the players will hopefully come to respect the tome and use it only when necessary.

Home Brew:
The following are a list of changes made to my personal Ravenloft, and are not necessary for campaign use.
1) All domains are a part of the Core, whether as islands in one of the seas or as clusters on the extreme edges.

2) The timeline begins with year zero, and so listed events are ahead by 351 years. This places the Grand Conjunction centuries in the past and frees those adventures to be used as part of the campaign. However, the Requiem is still in planning stages and could still happen, if the DM wishes – the original run of this campaign took place shortly after Azalin’s return, using a combination of 2ed and 3ed materials.

3) Darklords never take the stage unless absolutely necessary (such as “The Evil Eye”). Any adventures that features a darklord either has them replaced with Elsepeth, another recurring villain, or one of Elsepeth’s pawns.

4) Elsepeth has no interest in the Blood War, and will work with or enslave any other fiend she encounters (such as Quist from “Little Things”). Likewise, the demons listed in VRG:F will rarely, if ever, appear in the campaign, unless absolutely necessary.

5) The Shadow Rift is a deep, fog-shrouded valley, but with north being more of a slope in places than the sheer cliffs of canon, and the mountains becoming more impassable further south. The time difference issues are kept, and so it’s avoided by most travelers, though there are some trade roads and rivers used to cross it, such as between Dregavo in Borca and Briggdarrow in Tepest, or the shared headwaters of the Vasha, Brochava, Volgis and Blackmist rivers. Travelers crossing the Shadow Rift ensure that they leave early enough to finish the journey or reach some form of safety before nightfall. G’henna is a wasteland attached to the Amber Wastes cluster. Major cities of the demiplane are connected by a rudimentary stagecoach and pony express system. Darkon’s culture and government is based on the Byzantine empire. Populations and distances are at least twice listed.
Hanbaoge
Conspirator
Conspirator
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:57 am
Location: Taipei, Taiwan ROC

Re: Long-term Recurring Villains

Post by Hanbaoge »

Adventures:
The following is a list of adventures used during the original run of this campaign (Sept 2002- Jul 2004), listed in order of character level. This list does NOT include every adventure that was played, but only shows those that had significant connection with either Elsepeth or Isolde. The list is also NOT in order of use, as the DM should feel free to modify character levels, sequence, and so on to fit the campaign. Any connections (such as recurring villains) will be discussed in the notes. Fleshing out the campaign with other adventures will help maintain suspense, and also to keep the PCs from focusing on Elsepeth too quickly.
SPOILERS ABOUND, as each is provided with notes showing how it was used to further the meta-plot.

“A Matter of Trust” (COTN:Ghosts)
Character level: Any
Campaign Notes: Kole Pellman’s naturally violent ways were amplified after meetings with Elsepeth. Her original plan was to mold Kole into a serial killer and use his crimes as the basis of a power ritual. She abandons him immediately after his guilt for Mark’s murder is revealed. This was the first adventure used to introduce the idea of a seductive, behind-the-scenes adversary – the clues were provided through listening to Kole’s ravings about “her”.

“Graven Images” (COTN: The Created)
Character level: Any
Campaign Notes: In the campaign, the adventure’s backstory took place shortly after Elsepeth’s entry into Ravenloft, and was an early experiment in how her powers would work in this new land. This was also (if she and the GC are the same entity) the first time that Elsepeth changed genders, with clues to this found in Brother Dolan’s notes and Brother Alfred’s ramblings. The party discovered the temple several years after the slaughter.

“Lady Lost” (COTN: The Created)
Character Level: Any
Campaign Notes: Elsepeth was the one who inspired Karl to rebuild Angelique, using his murders as entertainment. This adventure ended the demon influencing Karl to commit suicide in his cell, in order to wrap up loose ends before moving on. This was also the PCs’ first meeting with her, though they didn’t realize it at the time.

“All Part of the Show” (Carnival)
Character Level: 1-3
Campaign Notes: The adventure was played almost exactly as described in the book, except that it was used as the PCs’ first introduction to Isolde and the Carnival.

“A Local Legend” (Dungeon 31)
Character Level: 1-2
Campaign Notes: Instead of a berbalang, this adventure was connected as a first act to “Little Things”, with the imp Quist being the villain in both pieces.

“And Wilt Thou Leave Me Thus?” (COTN: Ghosts)
Character Level: 1-3
Campaign Notes: Elsepeth seduced Rafe for one of her rituals, and the murder of the Joson family was intended to create a sinkhole of evil for future use. Susannah’s ghost was unanticipated, and her dream connection with one of the characters provides clues towards the succubus until she is finally laid to rest. Leaving the ghost active in order to make use of this resource could result in a powers check.

“Little Things” (COTN: Demons)
Character Level: 1-3
Campaign Notes: This played out as the second act connected with “A Local Legend”. Quist survives the adventure and soon after encounters Elsepeth, who gives him a choice between service or death. The imp loses no time telling his new mistress all about the adventurers who ruined his scheme, and later on becomes a recurring spy on the party until finally being destroyed.

“The Night People” (Carnival)
Character Level: 1-3
Campaign Notes: This adventure played almost as written, but was moved to a later part of the campaign, with Blasse being used as a scapegoat for Elsepeth’s current scheme. The PCs’ involvement becomes the first time they directly thwart one of the succubus’ plans, and provided the first hints to a connection between Isolde and her nemesis.

“Last Dance” (Dungeon 64)
Character Level: 2-4
Campaign Notes: Madame Tuvache met Elsepeth soon after the latter had seduced and murdered her husband. This influence drove her mad, with Elsepeth’s dolls inspiring the puppetry around her mansion.

“The Artist’s Loving Touch” (Dungeon 68)
Character Level: 2-4
Campaign Notes: Elsepeth spent some time as Romero’s model, played on his native greed and arrogance, and then “gifted” him with the gloves of petrification. Romero’s motivations remain the same as in the adventure – he is not mad, instead completely focused on recreating his fame and fortune. His wererat “assistants” work for Andre De Sang (COTN: W), who becomes a minor recurring villain to get back at the PCs for spoiling his plans.

“Missing Bones” (COTN: Werebeasts)
Character Level: 4-6
Campaign Notes: Professor Arcanus was added to the Carnival after pleading his case with Madame Fortuna (and being VERY careful around the skurra). His adventure took place around mid-way through the campaign – while the PCs had encountered him and the Carnival beforehand, this was used to introduce the Aggarath dagger.

“The Evil Eye” (Module)
Character Level: 4-6
Campaign Notes: This was used as a major ‘chapter ending’ in the original campaign, and with the exception of using Elsepeth rather than the Gentleman Caller, was relatively untouched. In the original run, Gabriel Aderre was killed by the Midnight Slasher, who was then manipulated by Elsepeth into pursuing the PC’s as a minor antagonist. This was also the point in the campaign where the PC’s come fully under Elsepeth’s attention, and likewise aware of her threat.

“Love Lies Dying” (COTN: Vampires)
Character Level: 4-7
Campaign Notes: The adventure’s background is changed to Elsepeth playing on Marla’s disdain for love and marriage, influencing the nun into greater acts of evil and finally culminating with her change into a penanggalen. The adventure itself was run relatively as in the book (with more emphasis on the ‘haunted house’ motif), and became an early instance of the PC’s realizing that there was something behind the scenes going on.

“Corrupted Innocents” (Book of Crypts)
Character Level: 5-7
Campaign Notes: Elenia’s backstory was modified for the campaign, having Elsepeth seduce and change her into an ermordenung as part of a power ritual. While the madness and amnesia remain unchanged, she became one of the demon’s willing agents, with her golem being one of Elsepeth’s dolls.

“Body and Spirit” (COTN: Ghosts)
Character Level: 6-8
Campaign Notes: Theona became a willing minion to Elsepeth in exchange for promises of beauty and power. She was also tasked with researching transposition, as the succubus hoped to find a possible means of escape from the Demiplane, and was entrusted with several of Elsepeth’s dolls. However, the townspeople attacked Theona soon after, leading to the events of the adventure.

“The Curtain Falls” (Carnival)
Character Level: 6-9
Campaign Notes: This adventure was played as the lead-in to the finale, almost as written, with the truth of the Isolde/Elsepeth connection revealed at last. The action will need to be changed appropriately to fit whatever dread possibility is being used.

“Castle Spulzeer/The Forgotten Terror” (Modules)
Character Level: 8-12
Campaign Notes: The crossover was used as the grand finale of the campaign, with the backstory changed so that the Spulzeer family and castle were originally in Ravenloft. Likewise, the former module’s story was changed so that it was Elsepeth that influenced Chardath into murdering his sister, and the lich lair mentioned turned out to be her primary “home”. The djinn was removed, and clues were provided in several adventures throughout the campaign leading the PCs to the castle, with their arrival triggering the events of the first module.
Hanbaoge
Conspirator
Conspirator
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:57 am
Location: Taipei, Taiwan ROC

Re: Long-term Recurring Villains

Post by Hanbaoge »

Important Items
The Tome of Terror
Referred to as Tales of the Champion in-campaign, this was used as a way to include several adventures that I wanted to play, but the PCs were the wrong level or in the wrong place. Each adventure provided some clue regarding Elsepeth, Isolde, or both.
Tales used included:
“The Created” (Module)
Character Levels: 2-4
“The Mother’s Curse” (Dungeon 59)
Character Levels: 3-5
“Cat-and-Mouse Games” (COTN: The Created)
Character Levels: 5-7
“My Lady’s Mirror” (Dungeon 52)
Character Levels: 6-8
“Seepage” (COTN: The Created)
Character levels 7+

Aggarath
As mentioned, the “Castle Spulzeer” adventure was modified to fit completely into Ravenloft, with the appropriate changes to the backstory. The dagger itself first appeared as mentioned in the entry for “Missing Bones”, with a short mention in a later Carnival encounter that it had been stolen.

Elsepeth’s Dolls
These made several appearances in the campaign, as mentioned above, eventually leading the PCs to realize how important they are. Some were made into doll golems by tapping into the trapped spirits.

Iron Flask of Tuerney
This was actually a suggestion made by one of the players who had the Chmpions of the Mists supplement, and was their first plan to eliminate Elsepeth’s threat. Finding the Iron Sanctum, discovering the truth about the flask, and dealing with the subsequent fallout was the focus of a small mini-campaign.
User avatar
Gonzoron of the FoS
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 7561
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 8:02 pm
Gender: Male
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Long-term Recurring Villains

Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

Very cool! thanks for sharing that run-down of your campaign. Excellent example of how to use a recurring villain. I've found very useful that device of the PCs finding the results of the villain's scheme long after the villain has moved on. It gives them motivation to pursue, while avoiding a direct confrontation that the villain has to conveniently escape to recur again. The most important thing there of course is to plant enough clues to indicate who was behind the scenes of the current enemy of the week.
"We're realistic heroes. We're not here to save the world, just nudge the world into a better place."
Alastor
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:02 pm
Location: Coventry, CT

Re: Long-term Recurring Villains

Post by Alastor »

Thank you for sharing the details of this campaign. I'm amazed that you managed to play through such an intricate series of events in "only" two years.

It seems like a fiend was a good choice as a recurring villain, since destroying her permanently wouldn't have been possible for the PCs without access to her phylactery. Was there a reason that route would have been impossible for them, or was it just well hidden enough that they found it easier to imprison her?
Above the conquered folk,
the draconic citadel
awaits rebellion.

Not the daimon, just a namesake.
Hanbaoge
Conspirator
Conspirator
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:57 am
Location: Taipei, Taiwan ROC

Re: Long-term Recurring Villains

Post by Hanbaoge »

Alastor wrote:Thank you for sharing the details of this campaign. I'm amazed that you managed to play through such an intricate series of events in "only" two years.
We were playing a LOT, sometimes 2-3 times a week - it was about the same time as my last year of university and my first year of grad school, and I was, shall we say, not as serious a student as I could have been.....also, the last couple of months were almost constant play, as I was leaving for East Asia in Aug of 2004, so we wanted to be done one way or another before then.
It seems like a fiend was a good choice as a recurring villain, since destroying her permanently wouldn't have been possible for the PCs without access to her phylactery. Was there a reason that route would have been impossible for them, or was it just well hidden enough that they found it easier to imprison her?
That, I'm afraid, I don't remember.......surely there was a fantastic reason why, but it is lost forever in the mists of time and ruined records.......I have vague thoughts of something about too many dolls? Not sure if that was it or not, but I think it was something along that line.......or maybe it just never occurred to them......
Post Reply