Gods of the Eternal Order

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Alastor
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Gods of the Eternal Order

Post by Alastor »

The description of the Eternal Order in the 3.5 Campaign Setting states that they worship a number of death gods from other religions. So it seems likely that they have a somewhat normal pantheon, in which each god has their own spheres of influence - except that Death would be a point of overlap for all of them.

Using this rubric, which gods from Oerth or elsewhere in Ravenloft would be revered? Here's a list of likely suspects, along with their portfolios (aside from "... and DEATH", which is implicit).
- Erlin/Nerull - Agriculture perhaps, since his favored weapon is the sickle, possibly also the ruling god, since his favored weapon is also favored by the religion as a whole
- Wee Jas - Goddess of Magic, Law, Love
- Anubis - God of Werebeasts & possibly of ritual in general, since the Eternal Order doesn't practice mummification, as far as I know

Which death gods might be associated with other spheres, such as the sea, warfare, storms, wealth, etc.? (For wealth, Pluto would an obvious choice, but it is unclear whether worship of the Greco-Roman pantheon is canon as something that would be known in Darkon.)
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Re: Gods of the Eternal Order

Post by The Lesser Evil »

In Death Ascendant, there is an Eternal Order drow priest named Dominque Nagy who worships Kiaransalee, the drow deity of undeath and revenge. She is an outlander, so I think the Darkonian memory thing made her reconcile her worship of Kiaransalee with the Eternal Order. Another priest in that same module is a gnome that worships Urdlen, a mad god of the gnomish pantheon that included bloodlust, evil, greed, and murder.

Other speculation:
Akiri pantheon: Although he is Good, Osiris could be a deity of plantlife, rebirth, and the sanctity of the dead. Although Set is not explicitly a god of death, he has the Death domain and could be a trickster god or a god of storms or the desert.

Celtic/Forfarian/Tepestani pantheon: Morrigan could be venerated as a goddess of war.

Faerunian/Forgotten Realms: Bhaal and Cyric could be gods of assassins. Loviatar could be a goddess of pain, torture, and masochism (or repurposed to interrogation and endurance). Jergal could a god of undertakers, tombs, burial, old age, resignation, and perhaps scribes. Talona could be interpreted (as a goddess of disease and poison) as afflicting punishments upon the unworthy.

Oerthian/Greyhawk: Hextor (could be included as a god of massacres) could be a god of war and tyranny (or more benevolently, hierarchy and punishment). Vecna (inclusion by way of his transition to undeath/lichdom) could be a god of secrets (and perhaps generalized to all knowledge.)

Rajian Pantheon: Kali is the goddess of both destruction and creation and from bringing life from death.
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Re: Gods of the Eternal Order

Post by Alastor »

All good ideas, and it's helpful that you have confirmed that gods of undeath are considered "Death gods" for the purpose of being included.

On the other hand, Udlen is a puzzling choice on the part of the writers: one would think that death would be part of the domain of one of the benevolent gnome gods. After all, more gnomish souls are likely to end up in the Golden Hills than in the Abyss. Also, who would want to outsource the funeral of a relative to the clergy of a god explicitly antagonistic to themselves, their society, and all the gods they actually like?

Vecna is a bit of an odd case because he is/was (depending when your campaign is set) the darklord of a rival domain somewhere in the mists. If his clerics are active in Darkon, they might attract suspion for being (and perhaps actually are) spies for the Burning Peaks.
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Re: Gods of the Eternal Order

Post by The Lesser Evil »

Alastor wrote:All good ideas, and it's helpful that you have confirmed that gods of undeath are considered "Death gods" for the purpose of being included.
That's just my assumption/take on it for convenience sake and because it seems to fit the Eternal Order's M.O. Sorry if that got taken as explicitly canon.
On the other hand, Udlen is a puzzling choice on the part of the writers: one would think that death would be part of the domain of one of the benevolent gnome gods. After all, more gnomish souls are likely to end up in the Golden Hills than in the Abyss. Also, who would want to outsource the funeral of a relative to the clergy of a god explicitly antagonistic to themselves, their society, and all the gods they actually like?

Vecna is a bit of an odd case because he is/was (depending when your campaign is set) the darklord of a rival domain somewhere in the mists. If his clerics are active in Darkon, they might attract suspion for being (and perhaps actually are) spies for the Burning Peaks.
I agree Urdlen's an odd choice (not that that this was unusual for the Death... modules). OTOH, he's the only evil gnomish god, and I imagine that the Eternal Order, being an evil religion, might prefer inclusions of evil gods to non-evil gods in the pantheon, unless they thoroughly corrupted the messages of said non-evil gods (which is always a possibility too.)

Also good point on Vecna, although the formation of his domain was relatively recent and short-lived, and his focus in the Demiplane was mostly on escaping and fighting Kas. I could see after the formation of Vecna's domain and his rise to fame that there might be a purge within the ranks of the Eternal Order of any possible cultists acting as spies. Then again, the Burning Peaks' existence coincided roughly with the Fall of Kings era, whereupon Azalin's essence was dispersed across Darkon and the faith itself was in chaos, making it possible that rooting out the Cult of Vecna's possible infiltration might not be a high priority.
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Re: Gods of the Eternal Order

Post by GreenWood »

I would definitely say Nerull, Bhaal, Hades, Anubis,
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Re: Gods of the Eternal Order

Post by Dion of the Fraternity »

In my campaigns these days I've removed references to Earth-based religions altogether with regards to the Eternal Order's gods. Only the death gods of other official D&D worlds are included; on my list are Wee Jas (Greyhawk), Chemosh (Krynn), Kelemvor (Toril), Vol (Eberron), Zehir (Nentir Vale), Chronepsis (Draconomicon), and now Svogthir (Ravnica).
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Re: Gods of the Eternal Order

Post by Mistmaster »

Zehir wasn't the Death God of Nentir Vale, thought. The Raven Queen was.
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Re: Gods of the Eternal Order

Post by Hazgarn »

I had to table it, but this is the pantheon I had put together for a campaign set to focus on post-Requiem Darkon, and some of the lore that was going to be used for each:
The Stern Lady (Wee Jas, LN, Greyhawk)
- It is she who presides over the rites which lay the dead to rest, and judges their worthiness. It is in her hands whether the recently buried dead will be allowed to return in order to chastise the living. Thus her name is invoked at the beginning of every Hero's Wake. She is also the patron of the arcane arts, and her image is frequently found in archiecture upon Darkon's establishments of learning.
In the past, missionaries of Ezra have found this deity both a boon and a hindrance to their prosthelization, as many Darkonese merely recognize Ezra as another aspect of the Stern Lady. The Nevuchar Springs sect, on the other hand, has had some success establishing the notion that myths of the Stern Lady rose from forces of Darkness seeking to obscure the truth of Ezra's divinity.

The Inquisitor (Afflux, NE, Libris Mortis pg. 16)
- The Eternal Order encourages its followers to confess their sins and secrets to its clerics, lest the Inquisitor send the dead to extract these secrets on his behalf. Other practices include flagellation in hopes of appeasing the god's desire for pain and blood being spilled. Statues of the god in cathedral shrines are typically annointed with the blood of tortured or executed criminals.

The Grim Maiden (Sulerain, NE, Complete Warrior, pg 149)
- Pleased only by the violent return of another soul to the Grey Host, offerings are made to turn her attentions away from the petitioner and toward their enemies. The deaths of condemned criminals are often dedicated to her, the sacrifices publically beheaded before spectators. Covertly worshipped as a patron of murderers and assassins. Often given symbolic honor, though non-pious reverence by members of the Kargat.
The Grim Maiden is associated with the horseman Strife (War).

Lord of Flesh (Doresain, CE, Libris Mortis pg. 16)
- An eternally hungry being representative of the envy the dead feel for the living. Butchers frequently offer him a cut of their wares, and farmers of livestock will sometimes slay the first newborn animal of the season in his name. Members of his cult occasionally gather for secret rites where they work themselves into a frenzy, channeling the hunger of their god, slaughtering and devouring small animals whole and raw. Participants in these mysteries sometimes gain the Voracious feat, and often rise as ghouls or ghoul lords after death.
The Lord of Flesh is associated with the horseman Starvation (Famine).

Lord of Filth (Incabulos, CE, Greyhawk setting)
- Twin brother to the Lord of Flesh, he is just as envious of the living, but more spiteful and cruel. He delights in delivering sufferering on those still alive, visiting them with plagues. In some communities in rural Darkon, there is a custom of wailing at the bedside of those wasting from disease, as if already in mourning, hoping to appease him with their cries of pain and grief.
The Lord of Filth is associated with the horseman Sickness (Pestilence).

Lord of the Drowned (Yeathan, NE, Stormwrack)
- Primarily worshipped seen along the Jagged Coast. The Lord of the Drowned is known to be greedy, laying claim to any who cross the waves.

The Reaper (Nerull, NE, Greyhawk) Tharoth
- Death Himself, Lord of the Grey Host. Rites to the Reaper are performed in utter darkness, with all windows covered and all lights extinguished. During the Requiem, when the names of the Eternal Order are invoked, his both the first and the last.

Lady Winter (The Raven Queen, N, 4e) Nera
- Represents the death of the crops every season. Sacrifices to her serve the purposes of ensuring that her touch doesn't wither the fields too early. The corvus regis are said to be her servants, and it is well known that those foolish enough to harm or hamper them inevitably face catastrophe. Members of an order dedicated to Lady Winter also serve as their guardians and keepers.
(Particularly honored by the halflings of Rivalis as a harvest deity.)

The Eternal Lover (Evening Glory, N, Libris Mortis pg. 17)
- Legend holds that when Darkonos was slain after stealing the Spark of Life, he fell dead at the Lover's feet. Touched by a gout of his blood, she knew life and desire for mere moments before Death reclaimed her too, and in those moments she loved Darkonos. From the Grey Realm she pines forever after her lost love and her brief memory of desire. Having known life, the Lover is more indulgent and forgiving of living mortals than the other deities. However, it is cautioned that one must avoid being too demanding or ungrateful, for the Lover can be just as easily moved toward spite towards those who retain what she has lost...
Members of her devoted clergy preside over and record marriages. Her name is invoked during the rites surrounding childbirth, asking her aid in hiding a new life from the legions of dead who would oppose its entry into the world.

The Thief of Life (CN, Gaz II) Darkonos
(Particularly honored by gamblers, and by gnomes as both a trickster and a patron of the arcane and scientific arts.)
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Re: Gods of the Eternal Order

Post by Wolfglide of the Fraternity »

That is a very good selection, nicely altered by translation through the Mists.
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Re: Gods of the Eternal Order

Post by Mistmaster »

Darkonos should be C/G; The lone light in the darkness.
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Re: Gods of the Eternal Order

Post by Hazgarn »

I decided on Chaotic Neutral for a couple of reasons:
- In the mythology of Darkon, the theft of life doesn't seem to be presented as a truly good act. It carries a connotation somewhat like original sin. Like, yes, good, now we have life, but the focus of the religion's philosophy is the notion that every generation of the living has to be on guard trying to appease the jealous dead because of it. From their perspective: Darkonos isn't the light in the darkness. Keep the rest of the Eternal Order happy, because they are the ones protecting you from his mistake.
- Darkonos's legend follows the shape of a traditional trickster myth, and in real world mythology even the most generally benevolent were rarely cut-and-dry good.
- Darkonos is the only deity in there that's actually "native" to Ravenloft, and having him be the token good-aligned member of the pantheon just felt wrong.
- Darkon's grim perspective of life and death being what it is (that Darkon belongs to the dead and they want it back), I didn't feel a truly good-aligned deity was necessary.
- At the end of the day, the religion is a tool of social control to Azalin and the Kargat. I doubt that a rigidly authoritarian society like that of Darkon would elevate a chaotic trickster figure in a positive fashion its state religion.
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Re: Gods of the Eternal Order

Post by Mistmaster »

Every Drow pantheon needs his Eilistree. Lol.
That said, as I see it the Eternal Order is continuing, basically, Darkonos job. keeping the Dead far from Darkonos gift to the world; his could also be a rogue cult; as for the Trickster, well, Raven is a completely good guy, and so is Saint Antony of Egypt (who stole the fire from the Devil), still, both are Triksters; Bes is also a completely good guy, and a Trickster. In tyrannical societies, Trickster are also usually seen as good by the common folk, obviously his priesthood should be clandestine; A native deity from Ravenloft should totally be good, instead, expecially when it offers thorns to the side of the local Darklord.
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Re: Gods of the Eternal Order

Post by Wolfglide of the Fraternity »

However, the deity need not be good for its followers to be a hindrance to the darklord. All you need is a good sect of its cult.

From the story, Darkonos' moral nature is up for debate. While there are likely many who see him as a legendary hero, surely there are others who think that his bringing of life to the Gray Realm was a curse. Life brings suffering and an ultimate return to death.

Still, given the nature of Ravenloft, Darkonos' actual alignment will have no bearing on the alignment of his clergy. It is all rather moot.
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Re: Gods of the Eternal Order

Post by Hazgarn »

I didn't say that no examples of good tricksters existed, just that I saw Darkonos as closer to figures like Anansi, Eris, Coyote or Loki who were just as likely (or more likely, depending on which you're talking about) to do harmful or outright evil things as good.

I didn't get around to developing Darkonos's following properly, as the campaign idea wound up being shelved. It might have come up at some point as a fringe cult, like you say. But at the root of it, the focus of the campaign I was developing the pantheon for was going to be Darkon immediately post-Requiem, and having an obvious figure of good to turn to (outside of Martira Bay and the bag of snakes that is the Church of the Overseer) wouldn't have fit the mood I was seeking.
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