Paladin's alignment in Ravenloft

[divinedragonslayer]

Do you let the paladin's alignment drift to fit their ideals or do you strip them of their paladinhood if they drift from their alignment. The reason I ask is particularly paladins of Belenus in Nidala would be lawful evil instead of lawful good.

[Dion of the Fraternity]

Paladins in 5th Ed could be of any alignment, provided that they follow their Oaths.

[High Priest Mikhal]

As Dion said, it's not an issue in 5e. In previous editions a drift away from lawful good alignment would mean immediate status as an ex-paladin.

As an aside, paladins in Nidala wouldn't necessarily be lawful evil. If they listened to Elena they would quickly become so, but her moral dictates are simply that: hers. Not the true teachings of a god. I'd say more but I'm afraid I'd devolve into a rant about mortal (mis)interpretations of religious teachings IRL.

[divinedragonslayer]

Good point about about that being Elana's alignment not the paladins' in question. But I'm assuming that the clergy teaches her views on religion. Anything else would be viewed as heretical and thus punishable by death. And that's where I was looking at rather than a paladin from Nidala. Though I have to say that Elana's clergy including paladins would be lawful evil.

But that brings me back to my original query which I think my answer is yes as long as they're lawful. After all we're assuming that all of Elana's clerics are lawful evil but still get spells from a neutral good deity. Then again that's saying there are actually deities within Ravenloft, but that's a question for another thread perhaps. Or perhaps that debate goes right to the core of my question.

[High Priest Mikhal]

Then again that's saying there are actually deities within Ravenloft, but that's a question for another thread perhaps. Or perhaps that debate goes right to the core of my question.

It actually does apply here. The Unspoken Pact blocks or simply prevents the gods from interfering with Ravenloft. The Dark Powers effectively supply all divine spellcasters with their powers. Which is how religions that stray so far from their god's core teachings can still believe they're doing their god's will in Ravenloft. Or how religions that reverse non-existent or dead gods can produce clerics that can cast spells. There's no Zhakata or Wolf God outside the demiplane, but their followers still receive spells.

In the RDM there's also a discussion about how paladins can become blackguard's without realizing it. If a paladin's zeal outstrips her righteousness, they may not notice their fall from grace as the Dark Powers step in to seamlessly replace their abilities with those of a blackguard, which mirror those of a paladin. That's what happened with Elena and it could very well have happened with any paladins in her service, assuming they remain as rare in Nidala as they are everywhere else.

[Mistmaster]

That depends on the DM; I prefer to keep the Gods existing, and active (both Zakhata and the wolf God do exist, in the outer planes, for example), but not allowed to intervent directly, barred the direst circumstances; they can send omens, visions, but they can't strip of powers theyr priests, theyr cults have the authority and power for doing that.

[Jimsolo]

In all non-Ravenloft settings, I only allow LG paladins. However, I also play up the personal connection between deity and clergy for clerics, paladins, and druids; their relationship with their god is close and very tangible beyond simple prayer and meditation.

In Ravenloft, the Mists create a barrier there. With the (possible) exception of Ezra, the gods aren't actually IN Ravenloft. The daily prayers aren't the rapturous communion with the divine that they are on other planes. Instead, in Ravenloft, praying for spells (or refreshing divine class features) is more like sending in a requisition form which gets rubber-stamped without any personal connection. Clerics and paladins can drift (sometimes FAR) from their deity's alignment (or their class required alignment) without repercussions. This can lead to some truly horrifying situations where a cleric or paladin is capable of truly monstrous acts of evil in the name of their deity, and is still utterly convinced of their righteousness. After all, Ilmater (or Torm or Heironeous or whoever) is still giving them their spells and abilities, so they can't be doing wrong...can they?

That's just my take on it.

[divinedragonslayer]

That's kind of my take on it too really. The only reason that Elana is a 'blackguard' is because she lost her powers outside the mist. Then again I'm assuming that Elana has paladins in the first place. By the by I'm giving Elana a few torturers. They'll be heresy hunters in a sense. While she has little contact with them they are more a part of her cognitive dissonance so to speak.

[Dion of the Fraternity]

In 5E, alignment has less bearing crunch-wise, so Paladins are no longer as vulnerable to getting their powers withdrawn or warped. Thus as a paladin, Elena could be explained to easily have just switched Oaths (most likely from Oath of Devotion to Oath of Vengeance); she doesn't need to be an Oathbreaker (the new term for a blackguard) in 5E.

[The Lesser Evil]

Do you guys think paladins, with the loosening of alignment requirements and changes in behavioral code, should grab the attention of the darklords as they did in previous editions?

[Dion of the Fraternity]

I would say that it now depends more on a character's Background traits (Bond, Goal, Flaw) rather than alignment.

[brilliantlight]

Even in 3.5 a paladin can be LE using UA rules. The paladin in question would be a Paladin of Tyranny.

[nothri]

Also, we are making assumptions about how Elena governs her domain. She might realize that her zealotry might intimidate "fledgling" paladins. She remembers how she used to be...how Lady Shadowborn always was. So she trains the rank and file the way she was taught. She keeps an eye on her knights. The "weak" ones get sent on far off quests were they can do a little good and remain out of the way. The ones with promise she takes into her confidence, shows them her zeal bit by bit, indoctrinates them, etc. Sometimes she has to kill one of her inner circle, of course- some balk at what it truly takes to hunt evil, and even she misjudges the potential of her knights now and again. But more often than not her order is willing to do what must be done.

[Five]

I view paladins as the mortal weapons of the gods, and as such they are expected to maintain as pure a connection to their patron if they are to continue receiving their blessing(s). This, in game terms, means that as long as the paladin in question maintains the alignment of their god's then they are the Chosen (thus "good", "evil", and "neutral" paladins exist, even in my 2E). And more specifically, for character flavour I have always allowed the paladin to slip and trip before they fall from grace. This means that as long as a character's beliefs align with their gods' then they maintain status. Morals can slide and change without divine penalties, but could possibly still lead to conflict, retribution, etc (the god remains silent, but the church and the paladin's comrades are outraged). A true change in belief is monumental and leads to a quick disconnect from the Divine. What is right and what is wrong is, simply, determined by their god and in turn communicated to the paladin as standing orders (through visions, dreams; "messengers"). No questions. Good soldier.

Originally I broadstroked a Lawful _ requirement for paladins, but have since conceptually redefined (for conversation, as there hasn't been a paladin in play for some time now).

As for Ravenloft specifically, they were never a PC class I had on the table, for various reasons that I won't get into (it's off the beaten path ), so my input probably doesn't carry much weight. I do have a combined 17 levels of paladin under my belt as a player, give or take a few (memory heh), but zero in RL...

Regardless, do what is best for your player's entertainment. Don't let a written rule block your creativity. You are a Dungeon Master (even if you're a player. Talk to your DM). You are Pantheon. And not even game designers can reach up to your level...

[ewancummins]

Paladins = always Lawful Good.

That's how I do it.