So I'm running GC for the first time, but converting things to 5e since it's the Edition my players and I are most familiar with. We are using Jester's 5e guide "Heroes of the Mists", so I'm utilizing the Dark Shadows section of the guide. One of my players is playing a giamarga (half-vistani half elf), and chose second sight as his Dark Shadow. I began to question if the vistani can tell when someone has the sight, and if he would possibly be considered a dukkar. I asked the discord server for Prisoners of the Mist, but they just told me it's not meant to be given at level 1. I explained it wasn't the full sight, and explained how it was one of the dark shadows from Jester's guide, and was promptly informed you guys aren't canon.
So my questions are:
1. Would the vistani know a male giamarga has the sight? Even if it's so much weaker and barely there based on Jester's guide?
2. Are the Dark Shadows in Jester's guide something that can break canon in this way?
I don't mean to start any drama, I'm just left more confused and unsure what I should do now.
Couple of questions
- Gonzoron of the FoS
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 7564
- Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 8:02 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location: New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: Couple of questions
Unclear. Nowhere to my knowledge describes how the vistani identify Dukkars. Unless I've forgotten something, you're free to decide if they somehow sense it, or need to see a careless Dukkar in action somehow. Note that they did detect Malocchio, though, and he is only 1/4 vistani. So being a giamarga vs. full vistana shouldn't matter.steamwolf wrote:1. Would the vistani know a male giamarga has the sight? Even if it's so much weaker and barely there based on Jester's guide?
Well, first, none of the original content on our site has ever been claimed to be canon. "Canon" for those who care about such things, is just what's in the published books. (minus the few things that were declared non-canon by the creators of the published books.) But your campaign is your campaign, and you can use what you want. Our resources are offered freely for anyone who wants to use them. If they work for you, go ahead. If they don't fit your vision, then don't use them.2. Are the Dark Shadows in Jester's guide something that can break canon in this way?
"We're realistic heroes. We're not here to save the world, just nudge the world into a better place."
- Dark Angel
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 815
- Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:00 am
- Location: Falentei, the Lands of Fire and Darkness
Re: Couple of questions
Ok, I am not sure if I should post this here (as it inspired the question) or revive my 'Stupid Question' Thread. I am hoping I can avoid derailing or hijacking this thread.
So I checked Mistipedia after seeing the term giamarga as a half elf/half Vistani mix. I actually have a PC in my game who is one (from Sithicus) and did not realize there was such a term. Is there any real significance to the blend? I just took (2nd edition AD&D, mind you) the abilities of being a half elf and the bonuses of being half Vistani (minus a few as the PC was not raised with them and never learned some of the more skill based things). Is there a special quirk that I am missing?
So I checked Mistipedia after seeing the term giamarga as a half elf/half Vistani mix. I actually have a PC in my game who is one (from Sithicus) and did not realize there was such a term. Is there any real significance to the blend? I just took (2nd edition AD&D, mind you) the abilities of being a half elf and the bonuses of being half Vistani (minus a few as the PC was not raised with them and never learned some of the more skill based things). Is there a special quirk that I am missing?
"One does not stop playing when they get old, they grow old when they stop playing" George Bernard Shaw
"If you could be either God’s worst enemy or nothing, which would you choose?" Chuck Palahniuk
"If you could be either God’s worst enemy or nothing, which would you choose?" Chuck Palahniuk
Re: Couple of questions
Thank you very much for replying to this. It's been quite a struggle to determine whether or not this could happen...about the only thing I found is apparently they do kill male vistana babies who apparently are born with the sight (according to Van Richten at least), but at the same time even clan leaders sometimes don't seem to know when someone else has the sight. So I'm just going to interpret it like this: pro-longed exposure to the child would reveal it since they're living with their closest kin, but passing someone in the street who the vistana may or may not know probably wouldn't tip them off. Maybe the longer someone like that was around them, the more inclined they'd be to figure it out.Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:Unclear. Nowhere to my knowledge describes how the vistani identify Dukkars. Unless I've forgotten something, you're free to decide if they somehow sense it, or need to see a careless Dukkar in action somehow. Note that they did detect Malocchio, though, and he is only 1/4 vistani. So being a giamarga vs. full vistana shouldn't matter.steamwolf wrote:1. Would the vistani know a male giamarga has the sight? Even if it's so much weaker and barely there based on Jester's guide?
Well, first, none of the original content on our site has ever been claimed to be canon. "Canon" for those who care about such things, is just what's in the published books. (minus the few things that were declared non-canon by the creators of the published books.) But your campaign is your campaign, and you can use what you want. Our resources are offered freely for anyone who wants to use them. If they work for you, go ahead. If they don't fit your vision, then don't use them.2. Are the Dark Shadows in Jester's guide something that can break canon in this way?
I'm not really too focused on things being "canon" per se, it was just something that was thrown out there at me when I had mentioned I was using those and I just thought "Wow is it that big of a deal?" I PMed Jester who himself cleared up the idea behind the Dark Shadows, and I'm in favor of using them in my game and any other material I like (even if it's 'not canon').
Well I don't know what pages such benefits would be on in any books for older editions, but according to Jester's Heroes of the Mists, they get a dex bonus and get the Fey Ancestry aspect that gives elves advantage on saving throws vs charm and they can't be magically put to sleep.Dark Angel wrote:Ok, I am not sure if I should post this here (as it inspired the question) or revive my 'Stupid Question' Thread. I am hoping I can avoid derailing or hijacking this thread.
So I checked Mistipedia after seeing the term giamarga as a half elf/half Vistani mix. I actually have a PC in my game who is one (from Sithicus) and did not realize there was such a term. Is there any real significance to the blend? I just took (2nd edition AD&D, mind you) the abilities of being a half elf and the bonuses of being half Vistani (minus a few as the PC was not raised with them and never learned some of the more skill based things). Is there a special quirk that I am missing?
Since we're carrying on questions, I have another one! Would dwarves from the Domains of Dread know about Moradin? In my upcoming game, got a Gold Dwarf from Citadel Adbar who worships Moradin, and since there's other dwarves, he might bring up Moradin. Been trying to figure out how to make that exchange go down...it doesn't seem like really any non-human races have any faiths within the mists.
- Gonzoron of the FoS
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 7564
- Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 8:02 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location: New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: Couple of questions
In the books, I think the term is only mentioned a handful of times, and only to say something along the lines of "while giomorgos (half-vistani/half-humans) are rare, there are tales of the exceptionally rare giamarga (half-vistani/half-elf)." I don't think any canon source has ever given any rules to play one. So what you've done is as good as any. (Normal caveats about balance and min/maxing apply. As long as the player is choosing the race for flavor reasons and not to get double the amount of racial abilities for free... etc. etc...)Dark Angel wrote:So I checked Mistipedia after seeing the term giamarga as a half elf/half Vistani mix. I actually have a PC in my game who is one (from Sithicus) and did not realize there was such a term. Is there any real significance to the blend?
"We're realistic heroes. We're not here to save the world, just nudge the world into a better place."
- Dark Angel
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 815
- Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:00 am
- Location: Falentei, the Lands of Fire and Darkness
Re: Couple of questions
Thanks, I figured there was not much beyond the Vistani terminology. Like I said I cut down the skills as she was not raised with the Vistani (mom was elven) and she still suffers from the stigmas and moon madness. Trust me, she isn't looking at this as some sort of bonanza. Thanks again!Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:In the books, I think the term is only mentioned a handful of times, and only to say something along the lines of "while giomorgos (half-vistani/half-humans) are rare, there are tales of the exceptionally rare giamarga (half-vistani/half-elf)." I don't think any canon source has ever given any rules to play one. So what you've done is as good as any. (Normal caveats about balance and min/maxing apply. As long as the player is choosing the race for flavor reasons and not to get double the amount of racial abilities for free... etc. etc...)Dark Angel wrote:So I checked Mistipedia after seeing the term giamarga as a half elf/half Vistani mix. I actually have a PC in my game who is one (from Sithicus) and did not realize there was such a term. Is there any real significance to the blend?
"One does not stop playing when they get old, they grow old when they stop playing" George Bernard Shaw
"If you could be either God’s worst enemy or nothing, which would you choose?" Chuck Palahniuk
"If you could be either God’s worst enemy or nothing, which would you choose?" Chuck Palahniuk
- Gonzoron of the FoS
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 7564
- Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 8:02 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location: New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: Couple of questions
Again, not clear. I don't know of any reference to Moradin in the books, and Mistipedia doesn't have any record of any. But there's precious little about Dwarves in Ravenloft at all, let alone their culture or religion. So you're free to decide what works best for you. There are certainly other outlander gods that are worshiped in Ravenloft (Bane (a.k.a. Lawgiver), Milil, Lathander (eventually morphed into the Morninglord, ... ) So it wouldn't seem out of place.steamwolf wrote:Since we're carrying on questions, I have another one! Would dwarves from the Domains of Dread know about Moradin? In my upcoming game, got a Gold Dwarf from Citadel Adbar who worships Moradin, and since there's other dwarves, he might bring up Moradin. Been trying to figure out how to make that exchange go down...it doesn't seem like really any non-human races have any faiths within the mists.
"We're realistic heroes. We're not here to save the world, just nudge the world into a better place."
- Dark Angel
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 815
- Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:00 am
- Location: Falentei, the Lands of Fire and Darkness
Re: Couple of questions
In my game, I made four gods like an amalgam of their Prime World counterparts as my setting was in Darkon and it seemed to fit better. So a Outlander cleric from the Realms would not find Moradin being worshipped, but the worshippers of The Dwarf Father would find many similarities (same with the Halflings, Gnomes, and Elves) with their patron gods. I just couldn't see a reason why the gods wouldn't somehow 'translate' across worlds and made them up to fill the void.
"One does not stop playing when they get old, they grow old when they stop playing" George Bernard Shaw
"If you could be either God’s worst enemy or nothing, which would you choose?" Chuck Palahniuk
"If you could be either God’s worst enemy or nothing, which would you choose?" Chuck Palahniuk