Twenty six years later

[Jimsolo]

I'm running a new Ravenloft campaign, and at one of my players' requests, I'm setting it in 781. I'm all for preserving the status quo as much as possible (so that major changes can be at the PCs instigation) but some progress/changes seem inevitable.

Here are some thoughts I've had. I'd be interested to hear what other people think.

1. Lord Aubrecker is almost certainly dead, and Greta Aubrecker would have taken his place, no? He was on his deathbed in 755.

2. Likewise Jules Weathermay.

3. As this campaign is the realization of my long-running desire to run a Carnival game, I need to deal with the Rasulid issue. There's no way Rasulid could have survived for another two decades, and his character seemed unlikely to have sought the redemption that would have been his salvation. Do you think Isolde would have just let the Carnival leave Rasulid behind when he became too heavy to move, or do you think she would be more likely to tell him directly what he needed to do to stay alive?

4. Tristen Hiregaard is probably dead as well, now that I think of it.

5. Falkovnia probably tried to invade somewhere. (I'm thinking another failed invasion of Dementlieu.)

6. One of the PCs is from Rokushima Taiyoo, and that DEFINITELY seems like a plot situation that would not likely have withstood a twenty-five year interlude. Unfortunately, I can't think of a way to keep the domain relatively intact while also keeping the Darklord's presence and curse also relatively intact.


Does anyone have any other insights into developments that would almost certainly have to have happened during a twenty-five year gap?

[thekristhomas]

My war in the core thread is largely about the plotlines that just won't wait, so you might want to check that out. Somethings to think about:

As well as Aubreker, Weathermay and Guignol are almost certainly dead by this point, Guignol is not a huge problem, but Weathermay dying might cause problems if the whole George/Natascha thing hasn't been sorted out. If George is still on the hunt then the twins will likely have to act as regents in his stead. My preference is that Natascha be killed either just before or just after Jules Weathermay dies, allowing George the freedom to take up his birthright. This is not a good thing for either Mordent or George, he is not well suited to leadership, and his years of solitary wandering have made it near impossible to even think to ask for help.

Gabby Aderre's child is due to be revealed as either human or wolfwere in the early 60's IIRC, with resulting fallout for Invidia/Gunadarak.

Would Tristen's heir support Othmar? because without the support of the Hiregaards a civil war/revolution seems likely.

D'Honaire might be dead by this point too, if not he's 81 and slipping

[Jimsolo]

Invidia, Gundarak, and Nova Vaasa aren't areas I normally futz with a whole bunch, so I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter.

With regards to the Carnival, what do you think is the likely progression within two and a half decades of the love triangle between Rajh Singh, Silessa, and Tindal?

[thekristhomas]

Invidia, Gundarak, and Nova Vaasa aren't areas I normally futz with a whole bunch, so I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter.

With regards to the Carnival, what do you think is the likely progression within two and a half decades of the love triangle between Rajh Singh, Silessa, and Tindal?

The great thing about love triangles is that they can roll on for years without resolution, but for myself Tindal is the better man (in fact he's the best possible version of himself he can be)

Invidia: the main progressions in Invidia focus on the children of Gabby Aderre. Malochio is dictator by the time of the gaz, so assuming that your going with a basic principle of "if it doesn't have to change it stays the same", I would suggest that the Cold War that the Dukkar has started with Borca & Barovia remain cold, Strahd continues to slay the mercenaries, Ivan continues to try to rouse a response from Ivana and his allies in the Five Towers, this can continue IMHO as long as you need it to. In my mind Ivana is the lynchpin (or grenade pin) that keeps that sitch from blowing up.

The daughter on the other hand, is a time sensitive issue that requires dealing with, at some point in the early 760's Lucita will go through puberty and it will become clear whether she's a wolfwere or not. If she is Matton's child, then I would expect the Gundarak nationalists to abandon Hunadora and Gabby, which could spell the end of that movement. Without the relative security of Hunadora, the nationalists will be exposed to Malochio if they remain in Invidia or Strahd if they return to Barovia. If Lucita turns out to be human, then we could expect the wolfeweres to turn on Gabby. Either way Gabby's position will be severely reduced at this time, so by 781, it could well be that Malochio has defeated his mother and again has her captive (remember Mal doesn't want to kill his mother as that would make him DL and trap him). Removing the buffer zone of Invidian rebels/Gundarak nationalists/Wolfweres from between Strahd and Mal can only escalate the cold war tensions, but as long as Mal is trapped by the Vistani curse and Ivana remains to balance Ivans military ambitions, it could IMHO remain cold for as long as you needed.

[thekristhomas]

Nova Vaasa is again a place where the tensions presented in the gaz could conceivably be stretched into a cold war for when you need it, but IMHO it is less likely that this would be the case as Othmar is entirely unaware of the near impossibility of conquest in the demiplane. Where Mal, Strahd or even Ivan would be aware of the mystical forces that would need to be aligned in order to make war, Othmar just thinks it's a case of sending troops.

So by 781, IMHO Nova Vaasa would have invaded Tepest, how that went is up to you, but the most likely result would have been humiliating defeat for the Nova Vaasans and goblins would be eating horsemeat

The resulting loss of prestige for Othmar would push the nation closer to revolution, and might make the Himmelsk Naeve think twice before pressing the issue with the Pave of Hazlan's failure to declare Hazlik heretic, which would solve the other main tension between Nova Vaasa and her neighbours

[The Lesser Evil]

I think your biggest question before everything else is, what do you want to do about the Time of Unparalleled Darkness? (The year is 775 BC, 6 years prior to your starting point.)

This should have major ramifications, even if averted, as if nothing else its passing will have a major change in the attitudes of the people.

[Jimsolo]

My tentative thoughts right now are that the ToUD is a much subtler thing than the "prophets" surmised. (Prophecy being vague at the best of times.) The Gentleman Caller is putting a larger plan in motion, in cahoots with Azalin, which is by now well underway. (Astute lorehound PCs would be able to track back the start date of the dastardly duo's machinations to precisely 775, of course.) Whatever plan the two of them have will likely weaken the boundaries between domains (at least temporarily), allowing me to explore a 'war in the core' plotline at a later date.

HOWEVER, for this game I'm focusing more on small-scale, character driven drama. So really, my concernes right now are primarily focused on the characters in the Carnival, and how their own stories have progressed. I'm still really torn on the Rasulid question, if anyone has any insight. (Namely, before his affliction became fatal, do you think it would have been in character for Isolde to go to Rasulid and give him a clue as to what he needs to do to quit gaining weight, or do you think she would have abandoned him to his own fate?)

[thekristhomas]

My tentative thoughts right now are that the ToUD is a much subtler thing than the "prophets" surmised. (Prophecy being vague at the best of times.) The Gentleman Caller is putting a larger plan in motion, in cahoots with Azalin, which is by now well underway. (Astute lorehound PCs would be able to track back the start date of the dastardly duo's machinations to precisely 775, of course.) Whatever plan the two of them have will likely weaken the boundaries between domains (at least temporarily), allowing me to explore a 'war in the core' plotline at a later date.

HOWEVER, for this game I'm focusing more on small-scale, character driven drama. So really, my concernes right now are primarily focused on the characters in the Carnival, and how their own stories have progressed. I'm still really torn on the Rasulid question, if anyone has any insight. (Namely, before his affliction became fatal, do you think it would have been in character for Isolde to go to Rasulid and give him a clue as to what he needs to do to quit gaining weight, or do you think she would have abandoned him to his own fate?)

been thinking about this, and I think he's beyond help, I like the idea of him being left somewhere to become a static hazard, with tralak warnings so Vistani and Troupers alike steer clear.

There would need to be some resolution to his sisters condition, my suggestion is that she finally "fades away" becoming so drained and thin that she ceases to exist in a physical way, becoming a spiritual entity that while not undead, has many of the characteristics of a ghost, but importantly is free from physical want or suffering. She would quickly adapt to her new freedom becoming possibly an assistant in a magic act (if you want to complicate the whole Tindal thing, she and he might form the magic act, maybe call it "Smoke and Mirrors", she quickly falling for him, while he is loyal to Silessa who etc etc)

It might be that this transformation severs the link and damns Rasulid, if he'd changed before this point there could have been a way back to normality, but with Mola's "death" Isolde decides to abandon the abomination to his fate. Rasulid might become something akin to a fleshy quick sand trap, his rippling rolls of flab gripping those that step too near and pulling them slowly towards through some gross peristalsis.

[jamesfirecat]

been thinking about this, and I think he's beyond help, I like the idea of him being left somewhere to become a static hazard, with tralak warnings so Vistani and Troupers alike steer clear.

There would need to be some resolution to his sisters condition, my suggestion is that she finally "fades away" becoming so drained and thin that she ceases to exist in a physical way, becoming a spiritual entity that while not undead, has many of the characteristics of a ghost, but importantly is free from physical want or suffering. She would quickly adapt to her new freedom becoming possibly an assistant in a magic act (if you want to complicate the whole Tindal thing, she and he might form the magic act, maybe call it "Smoke and Mirrors", she quickly falling for him, while he is loyal to Silessa who etc etc)

It might be that this transformation severs the link and damns Rasulid, if he'd changed before this point there could have been a way back to normality, but with Mola's "death" Isolde decides to abandon the abomination to his fate. Rasulid might become something akin to a fleshy quick sand trap, his rippling rolls of flab gripping those that step too near and pulling them slowly towards through some gross peristalsis.

See the Wall of Flesh monster form the Book of Crypts, or were you thinking about that one also?

[thekristhomas]

been thinking about this, and I think he's beyond help, I like the idea of him being left somewhere to become a static hazard, with tralak warnings so Vistani and Troupers alike steer clear.

There would need to be some resolution to his sisters condition, my suggestion is that she finally "fades away" becoming so drained and thin that she ceases to exist in a physical way, becoming a spiritual entity that while not undead, has many of the characteristics of a ghost, but importantly is free from physical want or suffering. She would quickly adapt to her new freedom becoming possibly an assistant in a magic act (if you want to complicate the whole Tindal thing, she and he might form the magic act, maybe call it "Smoke and Mirrors", she quickly falling for him, while he is loyal to Silessa who etc etc)

It might be that this transformation severs the link and damns Rasulid, if he'd changed before this point there could have been a way back to normality, but with Mola's "death" Isolde decides to abandon the abomination to his fate. Rasulid might become something akin to a fleshy quick sand trap, his rippling rolls of flab gripping those that step too near and pulling them slowly towards through some gross peristalsis.

See the Wall of Flesh monster form the Book of Crypts, or were you thinking about that one also?

Yes but horizontally

[The Lesser Evil]

My tentative thoughts right now are that the ToUD is a much subtler thing than the "prophets" surmised. (Prophecy being vague at the best of times.) The Gentleman Caller is putting a larger plan in motion, in cahoots with Azalin, which is by now well underway. (Astute lorehound PCs would be able to track back the start date of the dastardly duo's machinations to precisely 775, of course.) Whatever plan the two of them have will likely weaken the boundaries between domains (at least temporarily), allowing me to explore a 'war in the core' plotline at a later date.

HOWEVER, for this game I'm focusing more on small-scale, character driven drama. So really, my concernes right now are primarily focused on the characters in the Carnival, and how their own stories have progressed. I'm still really torn on the Rasulid question, if anyone has any insight. (Namely, before his affliction became fatal, do you think it would have been in character for Isolde to go to Rasulid and give him a clue as to what he needs to do to quit gaining weight, or do you think she would have abandoned him to his own fate?)

I guess the Isolde question would hinge upon if you thought she had enough concern for Rasulid's sister, because their fates are inextricably tied together.

Another factor might be considering the situation with Rasulid as compared to the Abominations. The Abominations have committed worse crimes, but she won't let them die.

[KingCorn]

What about the Time of Unparalleled Darkness?

[alhoon]

About the ToUD, may I suggest you simply change the date for your table to "It has always been prophesied as ~785-800 BC" ?

[tomokaicho]

I'm running a new Ravenloft campaign, and at one of my players' requests, I'm setting it in 781. I'm all for preserving the status quo as much as possible (so that major changes can be at the PCs instigation) but some progress/changes seem inevitable.

Look - your PCs aren't supposed to know everything that is going on. Here's a simple hack. Simply change the names of the NPCs, but have them in the same roles as the previous NPCs.

[Epically]

5. Falkovnia probably tried to invade somewhere. (I'm thinking another failed invasion of Dementlieu.)

You can use my idea where Gondegal bonded with the Four towers and wiped out the Talon army (the army was diverted south through player actions, and the army was ambushed on the Invidia border.) Gondegal then killed Dracov and usurped the throne (so to speak). Ludzig ended up becoming the new DL.