Creating Pre-Conjuction Teufeldorf

[TristenC]

Creating Pre-Conjuction Teufeldorf

Originally posted in the roleplaying games forum, I realize here might be more appropriate.

Greetings all, First-time poster long time lurker of the FoS.

I have been DM-ing 2e since 1997, and Ravenloft is my poison of choice. I am currently running a PbP game on a different site (planetAD&D.com) and started up the Feast of Goblyns module. This will be about the 4th or 5th time I have run this module over the years (I have worked out lots of kinks and stuff) but one thing I have never been able to find or take the time to do is to flesh out Teufeldorf. Every time I have run this module in the past the PCs want to save Dominiani’s ‘patients’ and return them home, then check the place out (I have always had lots of curious PCs). I’ve blown it off, hem and hawed around it, and even (one time) created a totally crap-tastic version that I’m ashamed to have even scribbled down [burned those later].

Well, it’s time.

I am going to derive Pre-Conjunction Teufeldorf as close to Canon as possible. I will include a map and some mid-level detail (shops, houses for those saved offering shelter, etc). The group I have now is just starting into the adventure, so I have plenty of time to do this right.

Sources:
Realm of Terror: Black Box (really only says it’s a town in Gundar, population 4,000 and outlines Gundarakan folk in general.)
RA 1: Feast of Goblyns (for location of the town/city itself)
Domains of Dread: for a little info about the people (tucked into the Barovia entry)

I have read up on Rafael’s Teufeldorf Thread, and a few other ones on this site.


-What additional canon (or canon-esque like the Book of Secrets) sources and references should I use?
-Anyone know of a good customizable city/town map generator? Otherwise I may do it by hand with the world-builder’s guide



I may eventually have the PCs kill Gundar <insert evil grin here> but that will be a couple of campaigns away. I’m pushing his assassination out until later in the calendar year for game balance reasons. By the way, does anyone have any info on castle Hunadora?

[Resonant Curse]

The old Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas program let you edit maps, and I would imagine make them. Pricy though since it has been out of print for forever.

[ewancummins]

Are these Gundarakites going to be Fauxgyars or Pseudo-Saxons?
Something else?

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9320&start=0

[TristenC]

Resonant Curse,
Thanks, I'll have to look for that or ask around some of my friends and see if anyone has a copy in limbo somewhere. I may try to bust-out my old CR2 and expansion, but I think it only has dungeon and wide-scale terrain map options not suitable for a community-size. I'll have to look into it.

EwanCummins
Neither, or rather specifically not directly derived or molded from an existing factual history. My main goal is to create a 'template Teufeldorf' if you will; using the most canon possible, and maybe a smattering of pseudo-canon (like book of Shadows, etc) where relevant. The point being to create a partially incomplete piece that others can use to insert into their campaigns if desired. I will be putting finishing touches on the template for my own campaign, but I want the main work up to be generic enough that anyone who wanted to could plug it into their campaign with a minimum of effort (adding their own finishing touches of course). To that end I don't want to tie it down to a specific culture in case that doesn't jive with another persons current construction.

The layout of the city and generic locations/descriptions will be based on geographically and politically similar Ravenloft towns and villages from modules. The location is quite specifically mapped on several resources in Feast of Goblyns and other 'master maps' from the Domain of Dread and other books. Using the local landscape and descriptions I'll derive the most accurate/likely natural resources (proximity to Balinok foothills means some mining, description of Teufeldorf and similarity to landscape in Harmonia suggests farming and potentially livestock herding, etc). Suffice to say the comparisons will be to fictional places already accepted as cannon and well-detailed.

I actually read the thread you linked some years ago, along with several others. Honestly I liked a lot of the ideas presented there, but this project is more designed for sharing than for my specific campaign (though I certainly will tailor my version before the PCs get there.)

[ewancummins]

Years.

Man, we are all rocketing toward the grave!


But, yeah, I suspect many of the Alt-Gundarak ideas I posted would be of limited utility in a more generic Teufeldorf meant to be broadly compatible with multiple Ravenloft campaigns.
It just deviates too much from canon.


Do you have a link to the map and module info (that's been made free now, yes?)?

I like helping to develop map locations, I've done some of that recently for a small commercial project.
Maybe if you post the map[ you can get ideas from other forumites?

RED Query on sources:


Knight of the Black Rose (the novel) includes some Gundarak action. Gundar's children, Castle Hunadora, etc.

[TristenC]

Hehe, I know. It almost stuns me to realize I've been DMing for nearly 20 years... that's well over half my life...

Yes, the Feast of Goblyns campaign was made available for free long ago.
The whole module is downloadable here:
http://wayback.archive-it.org/1213/2009 ... /downloads



Spoiler: Map showing references for the FoG campaign, including quest locations.

VIEW CONTENT:

Capture.JPG (117.74 KiB) Viewed 4265 times

As you can see, it has close river access (a little less than a mile by the scale provided off-map), and some cleared space that would work for farming. The distance to the river branch directly East is right at 3 miles, so there should be plenty of space for farms, herding, etc. The town itself is snug up against the trees to the South and West, and at the base of the foothills to the Northeast. The path to Skald is over 20 miles (since the road isn't straight) but that is nothing with regard to climate considerations, so the land and such should be very similar. I've pretty much decided most of the farming should be in the massive open area just south of the river from Teufeldorf, and the livestock pastures nearer the town itself (easier to just take crops to market a few times per season than to take your flocks in and out every $#&%^$ day...)

Gundar's only mentions in the module are basically referrals to the black box set (which also provides very little info on him aside from the few paragraphs provided about the land.

Hmm... I may have to pick up the book, I've never read it. I have a copy of When Black Roses Bloom, which was pretty cool.

Is there a module or campaign that addresses castle Honadora?

[TristenC]

Found a decent, free, online, random mapmaker (http://inkwellideas.com/free-tools/rand ... generator/) and generated the below.

It looks appropriate to me for the following reasons:
-Walled city
-Large keep in the center (Twisted Tower)
-Space within the walls to pen sheep at night
-apparent grain silos?

I'll probably make edits to bring the Silos closer together or outside the walls (although they might be temples), and eliminate the parks.

Thoughts?

Fun fact: the official religion of Teufeldorf under Duke Gundar was Nerull

[The Lesser Evil]

I think we can infer a fair bit about Teufeldorf based upon general inferences we make about general Gundarakite culture and society.

For example, I generally like to use the same monsters list of a domain to infer a feel for the domain. Both FoG and the RoT boxed set give you a smattering of random encounters. Rats, spiders, and other common pests (and perhaps their larger equivalents) as well as wolves are listed as common encounters in the wilderness, but more rarely undead, lycanthropes, and kobolds can be found. No random encounters happen in the towns. From there we can infer that while the outside wilderness is probably festering with monsters, Gundar's brutal regime has some efficacy in keeping out rivals in its predation upon its people in town. Any monsters encountered there will likely be able to disguise themselves or otherwise pass off their presence (or working with Duke Gundar as Dr. Dominiani does.) FoG confirms this- travelers are "relatively" safe in town, and any encounters should have a reason beyond incidence.

Wecan also infer some of the general social dynamics by looking at some of the seemingly random tidbits given to us by FoG and RoT. We can see that Gundarakite government is horribly, horribly patriarchal and misogynist (which may or may not mean the culture is the same way). Gundar taxes families merely for the birth of girls on the assumption that a girl will produce less for the state than a boy. He "graciously" gives them until the girl's adolescence to pay up, or the girl is forfeit. One can't imagine what trickles effects that might have on the peasantry or the horrible situations that puts girls and women in.

There's a few bits on Teufeldorf in Gaz I (a resource in the third edition canon, and post- Upheaval obviously) that might be relevant to pre-Upheaval. First, there is mention of an inn called the Weeping Willow (bland stews but well maintained and cozy rooms). Second, there is mention of old, old dolmens erected to a primordial and vile bear god of some kind. Third, there is also mention of the old dukes of Gundarak's false history building heavy fortifications complete with networks of tunnels beneath. However, because Gundarak fell to Barovia relatively easily following the upheaval, we might infer that the tunnels and fortifications fell into disuse (probably unlikely, given the relatively safety of the towns and Gundar's militant nature.)

A better explanation for the easy fall might be that Gundar's regime, at least in Teufeldorf, depended heavily upon the rule and unification he enforced through fear and a watchful eye. Without that threat and active monitoring, the structure itself is likely unsound and rots from within (as with Dr. D.'s rule) and falls apart in the face of great chaos (such as the Grand Conjunction.) So you might conclude that power is very centralized in Gundarak, and that Teufeldorf may have had pre GC some kind of official that regularly reported/corresponded with Gundar. (Some kind of greatly feared tax collection apparatus is especially likely, given how oppressive Gundar's taxes seem from RoT.)

[TristenC]

I'm definitely using the FoG module as my main basis, along with the political description of Gundar's rule from the Black box set. I compiled a long list of take-aways from both of those sources. I hadn't looked at the Gaz much, but I certainly will. I appreciate the tip on the inn, and the tunnels are certainly new to me.

I started reading and skimming Knight of the Black Rose and got a lot of really interesting details about Gundarak. There were a few instances of magically trapped bodies hung from trees and the like along the road. Some good wilderness descriptions and the like. I haven't read many Ravenloft fiction books (as opposed to the game books I've read), does anyone have more suggestions in that area?

[ewancummins]

I think we can infer a fair bit about Teufeldorf based upon general inferences we make about general Gundarakite culture and society.

For example, I generally like to use the same monsters list of a domain to infer a feel for the domain. Both FoG and the RoT boxed set give you a smattering of random encounters. Rats, spiders, and other common pests (and perhaps their larger equivalents) as well as wolves are listed as common encounters in the wilderness, but more rarely undead, lycanthropes, and kobolds can be found. No random encounters happen in the towns. From there we can infer that while the outside wilderness is probably festering with monsters, Gundar's brutal regime has some efficacy in keeping out rivals in its predation upon its people in town. Any monsters encountered there will likely be able to disguise themselves or otherwise pass off their presence (or working with Duke Gundar as Dr. Dominiani does.) FoG confirms this- travelers are "relatively" safe in town, and any encounters should have a reason beyond incidence.

Wecan also infer some of the general social dynamics by looking at some of the seemingly random tidbits given to us by FoG and RoT. We can see that Gundarakite government is horribly, horribly patriarchal and misogynist (which may or may not mean the culture is the same way). Gundar taxes families merely for the birth of girls on the assumption that a girl will produce less for the state than a boy. He "graciously" gives them until the girl's adolescence to pay up, or the girl is forfeit. One can't imagine what trickles effects that might have on the peasantry or the horrible situations that puts girls and women in.

There's a few bits on Teufeldorf in Gaz I (a resource in the third edition canon, and post- Upheaval obviously) that might be relevant to pre-Upheaval. First, there is mention of an inn called the Weeping Willow (bland stews but well maintained and cozy rooms). Second, there is mention of old, old dolmens erected to a primordial and vile bear god of some kind. Third, there is also mention of the old dukes of Gundarak's false history building heavy fortifications complete with networks of tunnels beneath. However, because Gundarak fell to Barovia relatively easily following the upheaval, we might infer that the tunnels and fortifications fell into disuse (probably unlikely, given the relatively safety of the towns and Gundar's militant nature.)

A better explanation for the easy fall might be that Gundar's regime, at least in Teufeldorf, depended heavily upon the rule and unification he enforced through fear and a watchful eye. Without that threat and active monitoring, the structure itself is likely unsound and rots from within (as with Dr. D.'s rule) and falls apart in the face of great chaos (such as the Grand Conjunction.) So you might conclude that power is very centralized in Gundarak, and that Teufeldorf may have had pre GC some kind of official that regularly reported/corresponded with Gundar. (Some kind of greatly feared tax collection apparatus is especially likely, given how oppressive Gundar's taxes seem from RoT.)

RE Girl tax:

Girls dressed as boys is probably something that happens.Also, sadly, baby girls abandoned by their desperately poor parents.
There may be no dowry, or only a token dowry for girls. Maybe a cradle? A cook-pot?

[ewancummins]

More on girl tax and labor:

Maybe the Duke imposes a corvee?
( I don't know how to make the accent aigu.)
He's thinking of smaller and weaker women being less fit to do the brute labor he forces on the people?
Mining? Logging?
Carting stones and building up his forts?
Roadwork?

(I seem to recall a hint in the Black Box that the productivity thing was in some sense a convenient excuse, and what he was really interested in was claiming young women.
I don't think the source actually states it clearly, though. I'd have to go grab my book, and the baby is asleep in that room.)



RE the Parks

They could be orchards or garden plots.

Gallows trees?

Animal pens?


(The orchards where the Duke hanged rebels are off near Castle Hunadora, I think )


RE Temples

Nerull! Fun times. Are these temples also burial places? Big communal crypts?

Do any of the Nerull clerics actually have spells and granted powers?



Adventurer relevant stuff:

Is it legal to go about armed? Any restrictions? Need a writ from the town mayor/ bailiff?

Any regulation of magic use?

Any regulation of display of holy symbols, or religious activities?

Punishments for burglary, brawling, trespassing, manslaughter, etc.

Availability of gear of various kinds, including thief tools and spell components?

[The Lesser Evil]

I am going to derive Pre-Conjunction Teufeldorf as close to Canon as possible. I will include a map and some mid-level detail (shops, houses for those saved offering shelter, etc). The group I have now is just starting into the adventure, so I have plenty of time to do this right.

Sources:
Realm of Terror: Black Box (really only says it’s a town in Gundar, population 4,000 and outlines Gundarakan folk in general.)
RA 1: Feast of Goblyns (for location of the town/city itself)
Domains of Dread: for a little info about the people (tucked into the Barovia entry)

I have read up on Rafael’s Teufeldorf Thread, and a few other ones on this site.


-What additional canon (or canon-esque like the Book of Secrets) sources and references should I use?
-Anyone know of a good customizable city/town map generator? Otherwise I may do it by hand with the world-builder’s guide



I may eventually have the PCs kill Gundar <insert evil grin here> but that will be a couple of campaigns away. I’m pushing his assassination out until later in the calendar year for game balance reasons. By the way, does anyone have any info on castle Hunadora?

-Maeve (leader of the Oak faction of Forfarian druids) was born in Teufeldorf in 706 BC, dedicates life to path of druid in 722 BC- see Castle Forlorn, the Weeping Lands p. 41-43. It is conceivable that she could still have a handful of relatives in Gundarak if a PC wants to bring in a druid or you want a hook for a side excursion into Forlorn.

-Strangling Man of Gundarak (Van Richten's Guide to Ghosts/Van Richten's Monster Hunter's Compendium Vol II)
http://fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/The ... f_Gundarak

-IIRC, Castle Hunadora is mentioned in Knight of the Black Rose. Soth and Azrael Dak rampage through it. Dak kills Medraut Gunder in an effort to use his blood to open some kind of crazy portal in the castle's basement to enable him and his boss to escape Ravenloft. Suffice it to say, it doesn't quite work.

[The Lesser Evil]

Somebody had posted a question (that seems to have vanished now) about Medraut having a sibling.

I believe Medraut had a sister that's mentioned in Knight of the Black Rose. I'll have to go look it up. IIRC, she was more or less in a permanent comatose state thanks to Medraut's horrible experiments. In any case, Gaz IV's sidebar on Gundar mentions he had children (as in plural) beyond Medraut and almost seems to imply that a number of them perished after he did with the following passage:
"and when word came of [Gundar's] death, he was not missed. Neither were his children, when they in turn perished." - p. 47

(Medraut himself was killed in canon by Azrael Dak long before Gundar met his end.)

So if one wanted to have a small clan of Gundar dhampyrs pre-Grand Conjunction, then it certainly seems possible.

[ewancummins]

Somebody had posted a question (that seems to have vanished now) about Medraut having a sibling.

I believe Medraut had a sister that's mentioned in Knight of the Black Rose. I'll have to go look it up. IIRC, she was more or less in a permanent comatose state thanks to Medraut's horrible experiments. In any case, Gaz IV's sidebar on Gundar mentions he had children (as in plural) beyond Medraut and almost seems to imply that a number of them perished after he did with the following passage:
"and when word came of [Gundar's] death, he was not missed. Neither were his children, when they in turn perished." - p. 47

(Medraut himself was killed in canon by Azrael Dak long before Gundar met his end.)

So if one wanted to have a small clan of Gundar dhampyrs pre-Grand Conjunction, then it certainly seems possible.

That was my question.

I've been cleaning up my mess of posts.

Thanks for the info.

[TristenC]

Excellent stuff!
-Maeve sounds like a perfect add/reference. Maybe I can make one of Dominiani's 'patients' a relative as a future hook
-Strangling man of Gundarak: perfect. Can't resist that one
-gallows-style trees in the park sound very appropriate
-the original black box listed the tax on girl children as labor related. Of course couls always be dual-purpose
-excellent ideas regarding girls disguised as boys/ exposure, etc. I would also alter the population dynamic re male/female %
-locals might try to marry off their not-quite 15 yr old daughters to (obviously wealthy) pcs. Or lie and say certain things mean pca are engaged to the girl (you helped her with her spilled basket on a friday at noon! You must be married now!)

SPOILERS

in Knight of the black Rose:
The sister was killed long ago by Medraut. The site where she died is where soth and Azrael spill his blood to attempt to open the portal


Note: if i get all this fleshed out and assembled by Sept 30th, I may try to submit it to Quoth the Raven (with nods to everyone who helped of course )