[QTR21] Demise discussion

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Well, apart from a few final touch-ups I've been sitting on Demise for close to 3 years now. I've been itching to see what people think. It was originally supposed to be a small sidebar or a few pages, but I got a bit carried away.

Has anyone read it yet? Thoughts? Critiques? Comments?

[ScS of the Fraternity]

I thought the Demise article was inspired. One of the major problems with non-human monsters as darklords is how much of a reach the writer has to make to create a suitably gothic character out of ogres, trolls and goblins.
I think this new Althea is a fantastically melodramatic character. She is a sympathetic character, albiet still monstrous and wholly evil. I especially enjoy the deep connection that she has with her prison.
I also liked the description of the maze itself. Previously, I thought of the labyrinth as a purely underground dungeon. The description makes it sound like a fascinating place of ancient ruins. The bit about overlooking trees made it sound a bit like the movie Labyrinth or even the ancient city in Raiders of the Lost Arc.

Do I detect a bit of Ray Harryhausen on page 144?

The description of Demise paints a vivid picture of an exciting location. I was never a fan of the much less developed Demise, since it seemed so basic and small. There was no room for anything to happen except the maze. It seemed a bit like trapping the PCs in a short empty hallway. They had but one choice, walk forward down the corridor and kill Althea.
Now the corridor has some curves, and fells almost crowded. Your players might still end up fighting the Medusa, but if they do, its because they chose to and weren't forced to out of lack of options.
I also like the return of the magical diseases. I especially like the crystal variety.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I think this new Althea is a fantastically melodramatic character. She is a sympathetic character, albiet still monstrous and wholly evil. I especially enjoy the deep connection that she has with her prison.

Thanks very much. We really don't get very much of her character in the source material. She's lonely, insane, and wants to mate. That's about it. I tried to stick to those known facts, and expand on them. I didn't want her to be punished for sex like the original Medusa, so I looked to D&D medusa culture to figure out what would solve the "monstrous darklord problem" and make her worse than other medusae, and hence worthy of darklordhood. Once I got the sense of the culture from the Maedar info in the 2e Monster Manual, and saw how she could break the taboos of that culture and ours at the same time, things really got rolling. Since her story became wrapped up in parenthood, and I was a relatively new parent at the time I was writing, things got a whole lot more personal than I'd ever expected. All the fears unique to parents ended up there: infertility, stillbirths/miscarriages, death of a child, postpartum depression... Then I wanted to put a specific diagnosis on her "insanity" (which as written seemed like hollow generic CRRRAZY!) Rotipher was the one who suggested severe OCD, and the more I read up on it, the more it fit. The challenge was to make it realistic and not play the OCD for laughs, as sometimes happens in fiction. (Roti also came up with the "Stone Sisters" and the "gifts" Althea leaves for her children)

Do I detect a bit of Ray Harryhausen on page 144?

Yes, there and elsewhere. I'd imagined the Roc that attacks Vik outside the caldera to be animated by Harryhausen as well. The Clash of the Titans Medusa was the one I saw in my formative years, so that film, as well as Jason and the Argonauts and the Lost World, had a big impact on the vibe of Demise.

The description of Demise paints a vivid picture of an exciting location. I was never a fan of the much less developed Demise, since it seemed so basic and small.There was no room for anything to happen except the maze.

Well, it is a very small place. The danger was making it too crowded, unbelievably so for a small spit of an island. In the end, I decided that too much is better than too little, since individual DMs can always pick and choose what's on their Demise and what isn't.

I also like the return of the magical diseases. I especially like the crystal variety.

It looks like my footnotes got accidentally omitted. We'll have to correct that at some point. The 3e updates of the Phagian diseases were the work of John Mangrum, used with permission. Also, the Stone Spirits and the alternate Althea tale told by "Gray Donald" were based on Mark Graydon's 2e version of Demise, available in our archive of Alanik Ray's library.

Many thanks also to Joel, Ryan Naylor, and especially Rotipher for helping me bounce ideas around.

[alhoon]

All I'll say is that if I use the article, I'll add minotaurs.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

All I'll say is that if I use the article, I'll add minotaurs.

Go right ahead.

[Deewun]

Finished reading it. I gotta say, I am a fan. I think you did a wonderful job here and really made a place I can see an adventure happening in. It reminds me of Markovia, a simple island with a set of adventuring rules within.

I've got not criticisms to make, merely thankful praise for a well written, well thought out Gazette for Demise.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I think you did a wonderful job here and really made a place I can see an adventure happening in.

Thanks! That was the plan. At first blush, it seems like not much can happen in such a small space, but when you consider that it's not much smaller than Manhattan, and then imagine if most of Manhattan was covered in a rainforest, and think of exploring it on foot, that's plenty of room for an adventure or two, I'd say.

[alhoon]

I was thinking about it... minotaurs are cool and nice but... there's nearly no RPG interactions there.
The fey are fey, not people.

I believe I will "extend" the domain a few miles (make it 4x9) and add a couple of sleepy fishing villages of CL3; like 3-4 villages with a total population of 1000 people or so, with a small clan of dwarves to mine iron. You know, with people. Nobody of them has ever returned from the Labyrinth, so they don't know anything about it. And the minotaurs in the woods help to keep them away in any case.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I believe I will "extend" the domain a few miles (make it 4x9) and add a couple of sleepy fishing villages of CL3; like 3-4 villages with a total population of 1000 people or so, with a small clan of dwarves to mine iron. You know, with people. Nobody of them has ever returned from the Labyrinth, so they don't know anything about it. And the minotaurs in the woods help to keep them away in any case.

Again, that's your call, but I tried to stick to the domain as it was previously described, while still inserting opportunities for roleplay where I could. (you've got the fey, Althea and her family, and a ghost, plus any other party of adventurers or castaways that might be there with you, or anyone you "unpetrify", that's as far as I felt comfortable adding).

Demise isn't your typical inhabited domain, in fact, it's specifically NOT inhabited in the traditional sense. It's small enough that that's OK. Like Todstein, Necropolis, Castle Island, Shadowborn Manor, or the House of Lament, It's a place to go into for whatever reason, face danger, gain some xp, and then get out, not stick around and settle or make friends. It's the "dungeon" so to speak. You can go back to the "village" in any of the port cities of the S.o.S. afterward to rest and have deep roleplay opportunities. Again, in your game, do as you wish, but the way I see it, there are far better places on the sea to establish a fishing village. Any started on Demise wouldn't last too long, IMHO. I tried to flesh out Demise as far as an Adventure Island, but not so far as a little island nation.

[alhoon]

Hmmm, yes, I see your point of "why have villages there when you can have them a few ship-hours away?"
Well, it's because I plan to use it as an Island of Terror...
If I use it in the core, then yes what you suggest makes sense. Although I would move South of the isle of Agony and closer to Lamordia.

[Band2]

I gotta say, I am a fan. I think you did a wonderful job here and really made a place I can see an adventure happening in. It reminds me of Markovia, a simple island with a set of adventuring rules within.

I agree. This article does a great job of expanding Demise into a domain that can be used for more than just kill the darklord.

As for the previous releases from the Sea of Sorrows Gazetteer, I have comments to send in on this one. Send them to the same email address as before? Also,
Scalies of the Sea of Sorrows – If this is a preview of the van Richten files project, should I send comments in on this one as well? Should I send the comments on Demise and Scalies in the same email?

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Sure, feel free to send any comments to us. Same email or separate, either way. Keep in mind part of the reason why we are previewing these articles is because neither netbook is on the near horizon. So your comments, while appreciated, won't see the light of day for a while.

[Band2]

Keep in mind part of the reason why we are previewing these articles is because neither netbook is on the near horizon. So your comments, while appreciated, won't see the light of day for a while.

I understand. With Demise that makes 3 of the domains of the Sea of Sorrows with still 3 more to go, Dominia, Markovia and the sea itself, right? Do you need any help from the community getting those finished up?
For the Van Richten files I would image there is a lot more to go.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I understand. With Demise that makes 3 of the domains of the Sea of Sorrows with still 3 more to go, Dominia, Markovia and the sea itself, right?

Correct.

Do you need any help from the community getting those finished up?

Not at this time, but thanks for the offer. We're keeping it in-house for the time being.

For the Van Richten files I would image there is a lot more to go.

I'm not sure exactly how much was planned for that one. There were the selkies and sea stalkers in QTR20 which were done by members of the community and now the Reavers by Joel. You might have to ask Joel who else is contributing to that, and how much else was planned. If you have an idea for it, I'm sure they would be welcome.

[Joël of the FoS]

I'm not sure exactly how much was planned for that one. There were the selkies and sea stalkers in QTR20 which were done by members of the community and now the Reavers by Joel. You might have to ask Joel who else is contributing to that, and how much else was planned. If you have an idea for it, I'm sure they would be welcome.

That is a project headed by Roti, not me. IIRC, there were many more monsters but I'd be in trouble to say which