5e Shadow Dragons and Ebb

[Tobias Blackburn]

I've been flipping through the fifth edition monster manual and came across their entry on Shadow Dragons. I'm not sure if Shadow Dragons were a unique race in 4e like they had been in earlier editions but they're different in the latest edition.

Instead of being a specific type of dragon like Golds or Reds, Shadow Dragons are presented as a template that you apply to other dragons.

The idea is that Dragons who spend too much time in the Shadowfell transform into shadow dragons over a long period of time. They still have the unique physical features of their former colour except their scales turn into a charcoal black. They gain other abilities and aversions that they would not normally have and their personalities change

This had me wondering, what kind of true dragon would Ebb have been if you were to adjust her to fit the fifth edition version of the shadow dragon?

[Mortavius]

I don't have the 5E MM yet, so I don't know what types of Dragons there are.

But if you look in Ebb's background, she was a dragon that lived underground her whole life, and the surface civilization sent zombies down into the underdark for food for her and her family.

Are there Deep Dragons in 5E? That would fit well.

If there are only the regular colors, then I'd go with a Red. Reds live in the mountains, and a black, fire-breathing dragon fits with the fairy tale ideal.

[Jester of the FoS]

I'd go with red as the fire breathing dragon is more iconic.

[Isabella]

Do gold dragons still breathe fire in 5e? That would be another option for fire breath. Ebb's backstory does sound much like a Deep Dragon, however.

[alhoon]

Instead of being a specific type of dragon like Golds or Reds, Shadow Dragons are presented as a template that you apply to other dragons.

This had me wondering, what kind of true dragon would Ebb have been if you were to adjust her to fit the fifth edition version of the shadow dragon?

Easy!
Black dragon!
After all, in FtShadows, the adventure suggests you put a black dragon instead of shadow dragon if you don't have the stats for shadow dragons.

[Bluebomber4evr]

Since 5th edition is supposed to be backwards compatible, I wouldn't change Ebb at all. I'd just convert her stats to the new rules and say that she's a "true shadow dragon."

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Based on her personality as we know it, I'd say black or deep. But there is something very Ravenloftian about a fallen gold dragon turned to shadow. Maybe elsewhere, though, not with Ebb.

[Jester of the FoS]

Since 5th edition is supposed to be backwards compatible, I wouldn't change Ebb at all. I'd just convert her stats to the new rules and say that she's a "true shadow dragon."

The "backwards compatability" thing came from a misunderstood quote.It's not. It never was.
The game is meant to evoke or feel like other editons, to let you play characters that feel like characters from other editions.
But backwards compatibility was never an option.

[alhoon]

I don't think so. I could play old adventures seamlessly again* with few hic-ups and the occasional "change Bend Bars to difficult strength checks". I've played the A1 and D1-D2 with minor problems.
Converting 3rd and 4th is also easy.

Frankly I've found that I could play every edition's adventure with few problems if any. Certainly easier than 3rd edition and the "4 encounters" margin. Now we're in the 6-8 encounters.

*After using the right conversions for the monsters to hit the difficulties required

[Bluebomber4evr]

I don't think so. I could play old adventures seamlessly again* with few hic-ups and the occasional "change Bend Bars to difficult strength checks". I've played the A1 and D1-D2 with minor problems.
Converting 3rd and 4th is also easy.

Frankly I've found that I could play every edition's adventure with few problems if any. Certainly easier than 3rd edition and the "4 encounters" margin. Now we're in the 6-8 encounters.

*After using the right conversions for the monsters to hit the difficulties required

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant. It would not be very difficult to take the 1e, 2e or 3e stats for a shadow dragon and convert them to 5e rules, so that's what I would do with Ebb.

[Jester of the FoS]

I don't think so. I could play old adventures seamlessly again* with few hic-ups and the occasional "change Bend Bars to difficult strength checks". I've played the A1 and D1-D2 with minor problems.
Converting 3rd and 4th is also easy.

Frankly I've found that I could play every edition's adventure with few problems if any. Certainly easier than 3rd edition and the "4 encounters" margin. Now we're in the 6-8 encounters.

*After using the right conversions for the monsters to hit the difficulties required

There's "easy to convert" and then there's "backwards compatible".

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant. It would not be very difficult to take the 1e, 2e or 3e stats for a shadow dragon and convert them to 5e rules, so that's what I would do with Ebb.

This gets trickier as the AC and attack numbers will be waaay off and figuring out the right HD for the challenge is tricky.
Low level monsters convert effortlessly, but the numbers fall out of line quickly.

But, really, Ebb should be fairly unique, so its base monster should be hard to discern.
But if building it I'd still go for red because the only dragon in Ravenloft should breathe fire, even if it is black necrotic fire.