Dark Powers Checks

[Quinntonia]

OK, I find that the rules on powers checks have always been a little light on the exact happenings, the kind of, you failed a Powers Check, now what.

My assumption is that this is so we can have our creative juices run free, and I have, but I was wondering how others on here deal with this issue.

Right now I have two characters in my campaign who have failed them.

One is a rogue who got his assassinating someone in the dark (Dr. Mordenheim) but it was during a surgery on an innocent so he knowingly killed that person as well. I gave him a sensitivity to light that manifested as low light vision but a -2 to all combat rolls in sunlight and a -1 in dim light.

The other has been driven to do some acts of torture in trying to get back home to his beloved, Katya, which I manifested as ongoing nightmares every night of her getting further and further away, which due to the lack of sleep, he gains a -1 to all skill rolls, but he is quickly developing an unnerving 1000 yard stare that manifests as a +10 intimidation score. Also, he looks to have failed another one and I am thinking of upping the ante by giving him an aura of fear (DC 5) wherein the DC increases the more he cares about the person. And with someone he truly loves (Katya) it cannot be "turned off."

Thoughts? What have you done?

[Jester of the FoS]

The problem with rules following a failed check is that the results really should be personal, fitting the character and the crime. It's really hard to do that with generic rules.

What edition/ ruleset are you using?

[Quinntonia]

I am using 3.5. I want to keep it personal, but I'm just curious how people have handled it in various situations.

[Deewun]

I usually look for a monster of some kind that fits the nature of the character and the crime, if I can, then build backwards, since I now know what the end product is. I've been able to do this pretty successfully with a carrionette, a manticore, and a brag. I've also had a gnome slowly cease to exist, which worked incredibly well. "Punishment fits the crime" may not work as well as "punishment fits the character."

[blackaeon]

In my opinion, which I feel seems to echo that of others here, the powers given should fit the nature of the crimes that they're committing. This might be harder if the character is just, well, a bastard, because there's more of a random element to things if they're just pulling out all the evil crap they can think of (which I'm not sure why you'd do that in a RL game, but anyhow). What I try to do is establish a couple of negative character traits that each PC in one of my games seems to cleave to and pattern a path around those, tempered by the actual deeds that're committed. Per example, I had a PC in a 3.5 RL game who LOVED tossing flasks of acid... at everyone... including crowds with innocent people when they were trying to hit someone moving through them. The PC also tried to use it while interrogating monsters and evil NPCs. The game never made it far enough to see the full results, or whether the character could be redeemed, they ended up in the Enticement stage with a touch attack that dealt 1d3 acid damage and a strong acrid scent for the Caress, and acid resistance 5 and an improved acidic touch of 1d4 damage, but -2 Charisma because of the constant overpowering smell and their clothes rotted out any time they made even moderate physical exertion because of the acidity level in their sweat.

Ultimately, it's a matter of toeing the line between keeping things thematic and maintaining game balance. I've seen players purposefully try to bring Powers Checks on because they 'wanted kewl powerz' and it sort of ruins the idea of Ravenloft as a crucible of sorts. The one thing is, unless you suddenly whisk your PCs away to Ravenloft and don't explain it (and none of the players are familiar with the setting), people typically know what they're getting into when their PCs start doing bad stuff in the Mists. The most important thing is keeping the changes horrific and personal, at least as far as I've seen.

[Dark Angel]

I usually look for a monster of some kind that fits the nature of the character and the crime, if I can, then build backwards, since I now know what the end product is. I've been able to do this pretty successfully with a carrionette, a manticore, and a brag. I've also had a gnome slowly cease to exist, which worked incredibly well. "Punishment fits the crime" may not work as well as "punishment fits the character."

I like that the gnome simply ceased to exist (or only exists as a giest or something similar). The few enticing power ups with only minor cosmetic issues will get them on their way to dark paths. By the time they get more sinister and inconvenient modifications, others will begin treating them more like monsters and any hope of redemption will become a very, very treacherous path. I informed one of my players who was suffering from ill effects that no one ever gets what they truly desire. The darklords have all these powers and resources, but they lack a fundamental desire that drove them over the edge initially.

A player of mine gained a tremendous amount of power and became reckless. Then he gained a wish that ultimately made him a lich. Breaking a huge no-no rule, I allowed him to play the PC until he was solidly an overlord (of Tovag after Kas was disposed of by Vecna). He was very resistant at that point and trying to justify his actions at that point. So he was given the following situation as he was trying to resist being the leader and making harsh decisions. The scattered remnants of Vecna's forces were outside the city walls (of Tor Gorak, the capital and the domain he controlled at that point). He was given a choice as he just wanted to leave the city and escape with the other players. I said that he was put against the wall, either surrender and die (which would kill his loyal followers as he was a priest with a new faith). His new goal is to travel back through the Burning Peaks and get into Vecna's secret library to learn how to break the bonds of darklordship (good luck on that). That will prove difficult as they (the priest lich and the new darklord of Cavitius, Lord Haroln) will renew the conflict as a holy war trying to destroy each other. The player (who is reasonable for the most part) and I will pound out the specifics and I will do what I can to skew them as only the Dark Powers would. He will never meet his goals of escape and having his plans work out as he desires. It is not a 100%, but it will be soon.

[Zilfer]

In my opinion, which I feel seems to echo that of others here, the powers given should fit the nature of the crimes that they're committing. This might be harder if the character is just, well, a bastard, because there's more of a random element to things if they're just pulling out all the evil crap they can think of (which I'm not sure why you'd do that in a RL game, but anyhow). What I try to do is establish a couple of negative character traits that each PC in one of my games seems to cleave to and pattern a path around those, tempered by the actual deeds that're committed. Per example, I had a PC in a 3.5 RL game who LOVED tossing flasks of acid... at everyone... including crowds with innocent people when they were trying to hit someone moving through them. The PC also tried to use it while interrogating monsters and evil NPCs. The game never made it far enough to see the full results, or whether the character could be redeemed, they ended up in the Enticement stage with a touch attack that dealt 1d3 acid damage and a strong acrid scent for the Caress, and acid resistance 5 and an improved acidic touch of 1d4 damage, but -2 Charisma because of the constant overpowering smell and their clothes rotted out any time they made even moderate physical exertion because of the acidity level in their sweat.

Ultimately, it's a matter of toeing the line between keeping things thematic and maintaining game balance. I've seen players purposefully try to bring Powers Checks on because they 'wanted kewl powerz' and it sort of ruins the idea of Ravenloft as a crucible of sorts. The one thing is, unless you suddenly whisk your PCs away to Ravenloft and don't explain it (and none of the players are familiar with the setting), people typically know what they're getting into when their PCs start doing bad stuff in the Mists. The most important thing is keeping the changes horrific and personal, at least as far as I've seen.

Curiously it sounds maybe this is just me but that those power checks were under powered for the level they are.... I mean per the 3.5 book if I recall correctly, first check could give them a 1/day first level spell and second could give 1/day 2nd level spell and so on..... 1d4 as the improved acid seems a bit low for a touch attack.... Considering Melf's Acid Arrows is probably multiple rounds of hitting 1d4... if I recall correctly. Been awhile though. It could also be a +2 to stat for first one and +4 to one later on.....

This however would be a way to curve someone's misbehaving in a game trying to get "cool powers". Which hasn't been too much of a problem in my game. Been pretty creative with mine like a thief robing can "smell gold" now up to like 30 feet or so, however anytime money touches his skin it stain's it. Easily concealable with gloves yet still detrimental annoyance....

[Zilfer]

I usually look for a monster of some kind that fits the nature of the character and the crime, if I can, then build backwards, since I now know what the end product is. I've been able to do this pretty successfully with a carrionette, a manticore, and a brag. I've also had a gnome slowly cease to exist, which worked incredibly well. "Punishment fits the crime" may not work as well as "punishment fits the character."

I like that the gnome simply ceased to exist (or only exists as a giest or something similar). The few enticing power ups with only minor cosmetic issues will get them on their way to dark paths. By the time they get more sinister and inconvenient modifications, others will begin treating them more like monsters and any hope of redemption will become a very, very treacherous path. I informed one of my players who was suffering from ill effects that no one ever gets what they truly desire. The darklords have all these powers and resources, but they lack a fundamental desire that drove them over the edge initially.

A player of mine gained a tremendous amount of power and became reckless. Then he gained a wish that ultimately made him a lich. Breaking a huge no-no rule, I allowed him to play the PC until he was solidly an overlord (of Tovag after Kas was disposed of by Vecna). He was very resistant at that point and trying to justify his actions at that point. So he was given the following situation as he was trying to resist being the leader and making harsh decisions. The scattered remnants of Vecna's forces were outside the city walls (of Tor Gorak, the capital and the domain he controlled at that point). He was given a choice as he just wanted to leave the city and escape with the other players. I said that he was put against the wall, either surrender and die (which would kill his loyal followers as he was a priest with a new faith). His new goal is to travel back through the Burning Peaks and get into Vecna's secret library to learn how to break the bonds of darklordship (good luck on that). That will prove difficult as they (the priest lich and the new darklord of Cavitius, Lord Haroln) will renew the conflict as a holy war trying to destroy each other. The player (who is reasonable for the most part) and I will pound out the specifics and I will do what I can to skew them as only the Dark Powers would. He will never meet his goals of escape and having his plans work out as he desires. It is not a 100%, but it will be soon.

Yeah I've only had one come close to darklord ship and actually his death despite him dying and two other party members it was pretty cinematic where they both pretty much finished each other off at the same time. One of the few times people were happy with the death of their characters. I don't think I could have ended it that way if I had tried.

[blackaeon]

In my opinion, which I feel seems to echo that of others here, the powers given should fit the nature of the crimes that they're committing. This might be harder if the character is just, well, a bastard, because there's more of a random element to things if they're just pulling out all the evil crap they can think of (which I'm not sure why you'd do that in a RL game, but anyhow). What I try to do is establish a couple of negative character traits that each PC in one of my games seems to cleave to and pattern a path around those, tempered by the actual deeds that're committed. Per example, I had a PC in a 3.5 RL game who LOVED tossing flasks of acid... at everyone... including crowds with innocent people when they were trying to hit someone moving through them. The PC also tried to use it while interrogating monsters and evil NPCs. The game never made it far enough to see the full results, or whether the character could be redeemed, they ended up in the Enticement stage with a touch attack that dealt 1d3 acid damage and a strong acrid scent for the Caress, and acid resistance 5 and an improved acidic touch of 1d4 damage, but -2 Charisma because of the constant overpowering smell and their clothes rotted out any time they made even moderate physical exertion because of the acidity level in their sweat.

Ultimately, it's a matter of toeing the line between keeping things thematic and maintaining game balance. I've seen players purposefully try to bring Powers Checks on because they 'wanted kewl powerz' and it sort of ruins the idea of Ravenloft as a crucible of sorts. The one thing is, unless you suddenly whisk your PCs away to Ravenloft and don't explain it (and none of the players are familiar with the setting), people typically know what they're getting into when their PCs start doing bad stuff in the Mists. The most important thing is keeping the changes horrific and personal, at least as far as I've seen.

Curiously it sounds maybe this is just me but that those power checks were under powered for the level they are.... I mean per the 3.5 book if I recall correctly, first check could give them a 1/day first level spell and second could give 1/day 2nd level spell and so on..... 1d4 as the improved acid seems a bit low for a touch attack.... Considering Melf's Acid Arrows is probably multiple rounds of hitting 1d4... if I recall correctly. Been awhile though. It could also be a +2 to stat for first one and +4 to one later on.....

This however would be a way to curve someone's misbehaving in a game trying to get "cool powers". Which hasn't been too much of a problem in my game. Been pretty creative with mine like a thief robing can "smell gold" now up to like 30 feet or so, however anytime money touches his skin it stain's it. Easily concealable with gloves yet still detrimental annoyance....

As far as the acid-y touch was concerned, I treated it as a natural attack (1d3 suggested at the Caress, 1d4 suggested at the Enticement) with the added bonus that it could be done as a melee touch and could be used as many times per day as the player liked (it was for a wizard who had a decent Dex, if I recall correctly, which is why he loved acid flasks in the first place). I actually felt that the acid resistance helped balance it out during the Enticement as well. I typically avoid stat gains unless I'm really stuck for ideas, as that can quickly skew the balance of a party unless you tend to go a little heavier on the 'punishment' aspect of the failed Checks. Just my two cents, though. I love the 'smells gold' idea.