Mistfinder/Pathfinder: Help me build Madame Eva

[The Giamarga]

So after i read the article in the new QtR with all the pathfinderized Weathermays, the conversion bug bit me and i started taking mad notes on how to build several RL NPCs in Pathfinder. And then i had an epiphany. Madame Eva is an Oracle(seer archetype) with the time mystery. It fits perfectly with Vistani not having clerics, and the strange powers of the Zarovan. And if one picks up a few extra revelations with feats, and selects the right obscure spells known this build is going to be great. I'm basing this on the Eva stats in Gaz1, is she statted anywhere else? In 2E? I'm not that familiar with her history, can anyone summarize what is known? (...I'll have to dig through Magrums timeline...)

The only thing that is still missing is another oracle curse, since PF only has the 6 and none really fit. 3PP products yielded no fitting additional curses either, though Open Design has a Wanderer curse that i think might fit very well for all Vistani to have. Eva's specific curse seems to be that she always has appeared as an ancient crone. So let's design an oracle curse named wizened! What effects should it have? (See PFsrd for the mechanics of oracle curses.)

On a tangent: I wonder if all the Zarovan Vistani should have the timeshifting powers from 3E though. Is this supported by canon flavour? Everyone of the whole tribe? Also does really every female vistani need to have The Sight ?

[The Giamarga]

I wonder if she should not simply be upgraded to Oracle 20, with the Final Revelation from the time mystery her apparent immortality/agelessness would be explained neatly. it would also explain nicely why Strahd always respected her so much.

[Jester of the FoS]

Isn't there a wasting curse for oracles? That could be reflavoured to aged.

[The Giamarga]

Yes there is but the higher level abilities don't seem to fit well (the oracle gains immunity to disease for example).

In Gaz 1 it is noted that Madame Eva appears to understand all languages, which could then point us to the tongues curse. But as there are only 6 cursed available, I wouldn't hesitate to give her a new wizened curse...

[The Lesser Evil]

If you decide to make her a cleric, there's a feat called "Versatile Channeling" from one of the PF splat books that lets you channel both positive and negative energy- may be useful if you want to put in a reason mechanically for her ability to channel both.

[Zilfer]

Can't Cleric's in the mist channel Inflict or cure spells anyways? (thus negative and positive energy?)

[Ryan Naylor]

This is what I did, if you're interested.



Madame Eva
Base stats
S 11 D 13 C 12 I 12 W 15 Ch 14
Human (high fantasy)

Racial: Wis +4, Cha +2
Levelling: Wis +3
Threefold aspect: Str -2, Dex -2, Int +4, Wis +4

755 BC (Current day stats)
CR 18 (15 [levels] + 2 [extra special abilities] + 1 [PC-level treasure])
XP 153,600

TN Humanoid (Vistani) Cloistered Cleric 15
Init: +8 (racial, feat) Senses: Darkvision 120 ft, see ethereal, Perception +25

Defense
AC 14 Touch 14 Flat 14 (+4 deflection)
Hp 93 (8 + 14d8 + 15)
Fort +10 Ref +5 Will +21 (reroll 1/day)
SR 21
Uncanny dodge
Xx

Offense
Spd 30’
Melee Dagger +10/+6/+0 (1d4-1)
Missile Ray +11
Space/Reach: 5’/5’
S 9 D 11 C 12 I 16 W 26 (30) Ch 16 (20)
BAB +11/+7/+1 CMB +10 CMD 20

Feats
Voice of Wrath, Scribe Scroll, Craft Wondrous Item, Iron Will, Improved Iron Will, Brew Potion, Selective Channelling, Improved Initiative, Ability Focus (evil eye), Forge Ring

Skills
Bluff +20 (15 ranks), Heal +23 (10 ranks), Spellcraft +16 (10 ranks), Diplomacy +14 (6 ranks), Appraise +8 (2 ranks), Linguistics +14 (6 ranks), Perception +25 (15 ranks), Sense Motive +30 (15 ranks), Use Magic Device +20 (15 ranks), Intimidate +15 (10 ranks), Handle Animal +10 (5 ranks), Knowledge (arcana) +16 (3 ranks), Knowledge (dungeoneering) +14 (1 rank), Knowledge (geography) +16 (3 ranks), Knowledge (history) +15 (2 ranks), Knowledge (local) +15 (2 ranks), Knowledge (nature) +16 (3 ranks), Knowledge (nobility) +14 (1 rank), Knowledge (planes) +16 (3 ranks), Knowledge (religion) +15 (2 ranks), Survival +13 (1 rank).

Languages
Patterna*, permanent tongues

Treasure
(180,000 gp/240,000 gp)
Crystal ball of true seeing, goggle of night, major tarokka deck, medallion of thought, cloak of etherealness/minor cloak of displacement, gloves of arrow snaring, headband of mental superiority (Wis, Cha) +4, eye of wicked sight, ring of freedom of movement, ring of mind shielding/ring of protection +4, incense of meditation, candles of invocation.
Many scrolls and potions.

Special
Channel energy 8d6 (positive or negative)
Evil Eye (DC 24): constant—detect magic; at will—spark, cause fear, ill omen, hold person; 1/day—burning gaze, bestow curse, charm person, suggestion.
Mist navigation
Moon madness
Sight
Survivor (+2 Survival, Sense Motive)
Zarovan (+4 initiative)
Raunie
+2 any checks involving glyphs, writing etc.
Aid another 30 ft skills or ability checks; 5 allies.
Prescience 11/day
Forewarning (can’t be flat footed, 20 initiative in surprise round)
Permanent tongues
Permanent threefold aspect (crone)
Can channel positive or negative energy
Improved evil eye – Su not Sp; DC 10 + ½ level + Cha
Summon mists
Avoid effects of Ravenloft on magic
Immune aging


Spells
(3/6+1*/6+1*/5+1*/5+1*/5+1/4+1/2+1/1+1): Seer domain.
Save DC = 20 + spell level

0 – guidance, read magic, detect poison.
1 – true strike*, comprehend languages, deadeye’s lore, detect undead, divine favour, endure elements, obscuring mist, sanctuary.
2 – augury*, bestow frustrating curse, disfiguring touch, grace, lesser restoration, silence, spiritual weapon.
3 – seek thoughts*, bestow troublesome curse, blood biography, daylight, deeper darkness, dispel magic, magic vestment.
4 – divination*, bestow dangerous curse, control summoned creature, cure critical wounds, debilitating portent, discern lies, terrible remorse.
5 – true seeing*, bestow lethal curse, break enchantment, curse of magic negation, major curse, insect plague, raise dead.
6 – find the path*, animate objects, cold ice strike, greater dispel magic (2), epidemic.
7 – legend lore*, control weather, jolting portent, lunar veil.
8 – moment of prescience*, discern location, storm bolts.
9 (candle of invocation only) – foresight*, soul bind, storm of vengeance.

[The Giamarga]

Very nice stats there. I like the spells and items especially.

So who cast the permanent tongues and threefold aspect (didn't know that one, good find!) on her ? So they are both dispellable right? What CL ?

Where's the seer (sub-)domain from ? I gather it grants Prescience and Forewarning. What are those? Are these the ablities prescience and foretell from the Foresight wizard school ?

Where does she get "+2 to any checks involving glyphs, writing etc." from ?

What deity does she worship?

Where did she get the following abilities from: Summon mists, Avoid effects of Ravenloft on magic, Immune aging ?

(Why) Do you not assign traits to your NPCs?

I'll have to try to take your build and make an oracle version out of her. I like the spontaneous casting and specific/fixed spell selection better than plain cleric casting. Though I very much like your build...

[brass]

The Harrower prestige class may be some use for this.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestig ... h/harrower

[Ryan Naylor]

Very nice stats there. I like the spells and items especially.

Thanks! I find choosing equipment to one of the most time consuming aspects of this. Probably made worse now by Complete Equipment.

So who cast the permanent tongues and threefold aspect (didn't know that one, good find!) on her ? So they are both dispellable right? What CL ?

Where did she get the following abilities from: Summon mists, Avoid effects of Ravenloft on magic, Immune aging ?

They're just Madame Eva's abilities. Presumably the Dark Powers did it. In VRGttV and Gaz I, she's able to talk to any intelligent creature she likes, and appears as old as she feels. If there's a better role-playing description of threefold aspect, I don't know what it is.

This reflects that Madame Eva was one of the first ones that I did, I think. With added experience, they should actually probably be supernatural or spell-like abilities.

At the moment though, yes, they're dispellable, and they've come out of her treasure allowance.

If you follow Rotipher's idea of her being an ex-darklord whose domain is bound by time rather than space, they'd be her Powers check abilities. If you don't, she just gets them for being herself, as the font of Vistani-ness.

Where's the seer (sub-)domain from ? I gather it grants Prescience and Forewarning. What are those? Are these the ablities prescience and foretell from the Foresight wizard school ?

Yes, but there's full details in my Pathfinder thread now.

It basically exists so that Vistani raunies can have all the divination abilities I think they should have.

Where does she get "+2 to any checks involving glyphs, writing etc." from ?

Cloistered cleric archetype: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-cl ... red-cleric

What deity does she worship?

She doesn't. She is either fully self sufficient, or worships an ethos. Probably either "the Vistani" or "freedom" or something like that.

(Why) Do you not assign traits to your NPCs?

I just don't use them in my games. I also thought if you wanted to add them on, they'd be easy to add, but harder to remove if you didn't want them.

[I'll have to try to take your build and make an oracle version out of her. I like the spontaneous casting and specific/fixed spell selection better than plain cleric casting. Though I very much like your build...

I also tried an oracle build. However, there are 3 problems (in my mind):

I can't find a curse that suits her.

Oracle severly limits what spells she can cast - fewer known, lower levels. I'd like her to have as broad as spell range as possible: lots of divinations, lots of curses, and a lot of... others.

She's clearly high Wis, not high Cha. Or not as high, anyway. I want her to be in a class that makes her canny.


Having said that, she should be a Seer oracle with the Time mystery I would think. Let me know what you come up with.

With the Sight, she'd almost function as an oracle anyway, since she knows in advance what the right spells to prepare will be.

[The Giamarga]

At the moment though, yes, they're dispellable, and they've come out of her treasure allowance.

What is the caster level to dispel against?

If you follow Rotipher's idea of her being an ex-darklord whose domain is bound by time rather than space, they'd be her Powers check abilities.

Whoa! I hadn't read that one. Link? (How does an ex darklord still have a domain?)

Also re: seer domain: so all your raunies are clerics? That's going very far from the vistani have no clerics (except Eva) status quo. I would be very interested in how else you could stat out seer types in PF. The precedent for raunies are mostly sorcerers iirc. Will have try some builds soon

As for an oracle build missing a fitting curse, well you could design a new one, as you did with her domain.
I kind of like Eva as an oracle with a new crone curse. You could always give her more CHA. Though with channeling a cleric build is easier by far.

Maybe a new raunie archetype or prestige class for sorcerer or cleric or oracle woe also make sense

[The Giamarga]

The Harrower prestige class may be some use for this.

Harrower

I'm aware of the class. It would have to be adapted a bit to fit the Tarokka reading ravenloft gypsy flavour though.

Looking forward to what Ryan did with prestige classes...

[The Giamarga]

While I did like the items there's one that I specifically not care my hat all: the stat boosters I.e. big six items. Does she really need them? I would really wish that in RL we could go without these and give instead more interesting flavourful items. I.e. rather than a simple high bonus I prefer small bonuses and lots of options and flavour.

Do you assign PC or NPC wealth?
Also why no aging mods?

[Ryan Naylor]

What is the caster level to dispel against?

I'd use her CR (not her level). So, in this build, level 18.

But as I said, they should probably be changed to spell-like abilities, not permanent spells.

If you follow Rotipher's idea of her being an ex-darklord whose domain is bound by time rather than space, they'd be her Powers check abilities.

Whoa! I hadn't read that one. Link? (How does an ex darklord still have a domain?)

Basically because the Dark Powers hadn't set the rules in stone yet.

Link: http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/foru ... 2afd4dbc66

All interesting, but Rotipher's stuff particularly.

Also re: seer domain: so all your raunies are clerics? That's going very far from the vistani have no clerics (except Eva) status quo. I would be very interested in how else you could stat out seer types in PF. The precedent for raunies are mostly sorcerers iirc. Will have try some builds soon

Actually, I'd say most should be oracles . However, I can see good reason for some to be witches (with the Portents patron). Eva is unique in that she is the only cleric. Or perhaps one of the rare ones. Again, I'm yet to see (or think of) a good oracles curse.

However, if a PC wanted to play a Vistani cleric, that domain is available if the GM allows it.

As for an oracle build missing a fitting curse, well you could design a new one, as you did with her domain.

Yes, but inspiration fails to strike. I tried to think of one relating to the travelling/static burn, but I couldn't work it out.

Maybe a new raunie archetype or prestige class for sorcerer or cleric or oracle woe also make sense

I'm not sure I'd go down the prestige class route (Harrower really doesn't work for me), primarily because it puts a level requirement on being a raunie, which may limit flexibility for GMs. Raunies are defined primarily by the Sight, not level/hit point/age/experience.

Conversely, raunies might be oracles, clerics, sorcerers or witches, so a single archetype isn't going to work.

In the Vistani chapter, I've made it as racial effect:

The Sight: Female Vistani have the Sight, which increases their chance of a correct augury, allows those who are not Oracles to cast divination, and gives them access to the Seer domain.

Raunies: Each Vistani tribe is led by a raunie (seer) and a captain. The raunie is typically an 8th level oracle with the Seer archetype, a cleric with the Seer domain (and often the Travel or Community domain), or a witch with the Portents patron. No one knows who or what patron supports these Vistani spellcasters; some say it is Madame Eva, the raunie of the sole caravan of the Zarovan tribe, while others say it is the Dark Powers or the Mists themselves (if there is a difference between the two).
To become raunie, the Vistana must be a female with the Sight, and must create a tarokka deck. There can only be one raunie per tribe, although she typically has an apprentice who takes over in the event of her death. A raunie’s caster level is doubled for determining the success of divination and augury. She can speak to the Vistani’s guardian birds, the vista-chiri, at will (CR +0).

As for Harrower:

Dragon Disciple, Harrower, Low Templar, Red Mantis Assassin
These prestige classes are typically not available in Ravenloft, although a rare exception might potentially exist.

Unfortunately, the abilities are tied quite closely to being of extreme alignment, and the Vistani (Eva particularly) should be TN. I intend to go back and have another look, but this is where it stands at the moment.

As for the items:

What would you suggest?

But, the ability boost in Pathfinder is an important part of balance as levels increase - much more so than in 3/3.5. Most of my darklords have them because they can't compete with PCs at their CR otherwise.

However, they can be re-skinned. Eva doesn't wear a gold circlet; she has a faded lacework headdress like a handkerchief that sits on her head, a ruby sewn at one of the points in the centre of her forehead, and a few vicious looking jewelled hat pins that tie it to her hair.


Big-ticket NPCs (darklords and Eva, essentially) get PC treasure, and are CR +1 because of it. Other NPCs and some darklords (Jander Sunstar, Adam) get NPC treasure.

No aging mods because she's not really a crone: she can look as old as she feels. She is beyond the grasp of time.